Doddy

[quote name='leftyhook' timestamp='1331588409' post='1575548'] Sorry sorry sorry - but....... Tony Franklin..........................being granted a signature model by no less than Fender. [/quote] I think it helps when you are the artist relations manager for Fender for 8 years.

[quote name='Faithless' timestamp='1331586494' post='1575487'] I thought his main job was to make preamps for Fodera.... [/quote] You mean when he's not designing and making expensive preamps,he plays stupidly good electric and upright bass with some of the biggest names in jazz. Clever bugger.

[quote name='peteb' timestamp='1331585224' post='1575461'] I do think that we all may be getting a bit carried away with ourselves here. I waded into this thread because Doddy said that Billy Sheehan was wrong to say that a bass player should lock in with the bass drum – basically I thought that Doddy was wrong! [/quote] I never said Sheehan was wrong. I used him as an example of a prominent rock bass player who many times has said about being 'married' to the bass drum,which is a concept that I think can be very misleading. Like I said a couple of times in this thread,that has it's place and can sound great-but the bass doesn't have to play the same as the bass drum...That's all. To say that you should play on every bass drum beat is wrong.You can still be locked in with the drums (all of them) without playing in unison with the bass drum all the time.

[quote name='Faithless' timestamp='1331583192' post='1575397'] I believe that's Mike Pope doing it's thing? heck, what a monster.... [/quote] Yeah that's Mike Pope.... ridiculously good player. It's not a straight ahead 'classic' swinging tune...but,yeah that swings. Edit....although it's not a tune that I would play to someone who wanted to learn about swinging walking lines.

I've got to disagree about Berlin...the guy swings like crazy. There are plenty of guys who swing hard on the electric bass,but I think the reason that people like Upright for jazz is nit because it swings harder,but because of the envelope of the note. Because of the difference in scale and the fact that a Double Bass has a massive body to vibrate,the whole attack and decay of the note seems to sit really well when playing walking. The electric bass has more of an instant attack which some people don't like within a jazz context and often mistake for (lack of)'swing'.

[quote name='risingson' timestamp='1331563294' post='1574837'] It's obviously something we won't agree on I'm afraid Doddy! I find the concept of critiquing your favourite bands or songs based on technique utterly strange. Can't you enjoy music for what it is as opposed to what any one person is doing wrong? If it ain't broke, don't fix it. [/quote] I'm not critiquing my favourite bands based on technique. I'm saying that people will often elevate the players in their favourite bands to genius like status and claim that they are under/over rated based on that.What I said was that just because I like a band/song doesn't mean that I like the individual musicians and vice versa. I mentioned John Entwistle as being over rated based on the fact that he was voted 'Bassist of the Millenium'. It doesnt mean that I don't like some of The Who's music....it means that I think that Entwistle gets a lot more praise and admiration than I personally think he deserves. That's all.

[quote name='risingson' timestamp='1331561667' post='1574792'] I don't read any music publications currently, but no, I don't do that. And the reason is that variety in music interests me much more than only listening to one style of music, whether I enjoy it straight away or not. The other reason is that I've learnt better than to equate seemingly poor performances with bad music. I'll never like the bass part that John Lennon played on 'The Long and Winding Road' for example but will it stop me thinking that it's one of the best records of all time? Probably not. [/quote] But the thread is about 'over rated bassists' not do you like the band/song. Possibly my favourite band is Primus,but I still think that,in a way,Claypool is over rated because he gets lauded as a bass playing genius when there are big aspects of his playing that are very sloppy. Marcus Miller is probably my favourite bass player,but I don't think that his last couple of studio solo albums have been particularly great. I think Flea gets lauded waaay to much,but it doesn't stop me digging a bunch of the Chili's albums. There is a big difference between liking/disliking a song/band/album and saying that the players are over/under rated. Just because I like a band doesn't mean I rate the players highly and vice versa.

[quote name='risingson' timestamp='1331559642' post='1574736'] Trust me, it's not. Hypothetically, if you were to put forward Andy Rourke from The Smiths into all of this, it's not going to stop me from enjoying The Smiths' music. I'm more aware of music as the sum of the parts as opposed to any one person being under or overrated. What I'd prefer to highlight is the futility of arguing the toss either way. [/quote] So,you've never looked at a copy of Bass Player (for example) and though "Bloody Hell..not him(again)! He sucks!"? There are bands/albums that I really like where I would never call the individual players amazing (or even good in some cases)by any stretch,and vice versa. There is nothing wrong with saying "I like......." or "I think....... gets too much attention" or whatever. Everyone does it.

Jeff Berlin and Laurence Cottle are the first two guys I think of with regards to jazz players on electric bass....they both swing like crazy.There's players like Janek Gwizdala too,although he doesn't,by his own admission,really play any straight ahead jazz

[quote name='risingson' timestamp='1331559110' post='1574720'] Subjectivity is what is seen as part of a reasoned debate, but I've never seen a 'who's the most overrated bass player' thread end with anyone being even close to subjective. [/quote] So..that says to me that the problem with these threads is that people don't like others being negative towards their favourite players/band.

Why would you aim to set the graphic to the same as the pre shape switch? I would have though it would be better to set the EQ to a good finger tone,and then use the pre shape for a more scooped,slap sound?

I know it's all subjective...but I find it interesting that when there is an 'under rated' player thread, everyone is quite happy to to say about players they like who they don't think get enough coverage,yet when an 'over rated' thread starts its wrong because it's 'subjective'. Subjectivity is whole point of both threads. As far as I'm concerned,there is no difference in me saying that players like Robert Mercurio of Galactic or Raphael Saadiq of Tony,Toni,Tone are 'under rated' and saying that players like John Entwistle or Flea are 'over rated'. Unless,of course,the real reason is that people don't like to hear others being negative towards their favourite players/bands?

[quote name='risingson' timestamp='1331550413' post='1574448'] I don't think there's any such thing, only music I like and music I don't. [/quote] True. However,I will make an exception for John Entwistle...mainly because of that 'Bassist of the Millenium' thing that keeps getting touted. I don't even think he's the best bass player to play with The Who

Marcus' line on Luther Vandross' 'Never Too Much' is really cool and grooving. There were some cool lines,both bass guitar and synth bass on the Scritti Polliti albums 'Cupid and Psyche '85' and 'Provision'. And,we can't forget the excellent bass work-again both electric and synth-on the Michael Jackson albums 'Thriller' and 'Bad'.

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1331512589' post='1574114'] Throughout every genre, it's the interplay between the kick drum and the bass that has provided the fundamental basis of twentieth (and twenty-first) century music. If you think otherwise, then I'm sorry... you're deluded and you know f***-all. If the kick and the bass aren't working together properly, then you don't have a groove. That is all. [/quote] A very bold and aggressive statement there...although in a round about way you're agreeing with me. You mention 'the interplay between the kick drum and the bass'...the key word being 'interplay'. The argument was against the quote "[b]every bass drum beat should be covered by a note played by the bass"-[/b] no,it doesn't. There are times when this works,but the bass doesn't have to shadow the bass drum all the time. It is free to play off and around the bass drum and lock in just as much with other parts of the kit and other instruments. But,what do I know? f*** all apparently.

[quote name='paul_5' timestamp='1331491333' post='1573698'] Musician's Union are perfect for this sort of thing. [/quote] Depends if it's contracted or not....and if you're all members.

[quote name='Bassdriver' timestamp='1331488259' post='1573602'] I don't mean to ssay it'd be a bad idea to do so or a waste of time, just that it's not impossible to play well without. Yes a comprehensive knowledge makes you a more accomplished player but as long as you have good enough ears to hear a b7 clashing with a maj7 you can still play a nice bass line. [/quote] My point is that you can either hit the wrong note,wince,then try another note the next time through-or you can hit the right note first time. I know which I'd rather do. Bear in mind I'm referring to doing this on the bandstand, not in the practice room-although it helps there too. There are players who play well without knowing the 'board,but if you are playing,say, an F# on the D string and the band leader asks you to play it an octave higher,will they be happy to wait for you to count the frets until you find it? Learning the fingerboard well doesn't take long either..spend just 15 mins a day studying it and you'll have it down within a short space of time.

[quote name='peteb' timestamp='1331487239' post='1573578'] Some really bad advice here from a few people who really should know better! The basics are that you play to the drummer; therefore all good bands tend to have someone behind the kit who has good time & feel - generally the drummer should dictate the pace of a song and assuming that he is playing a backbeat (i.e. rock, funk, etc.) then the bass player should lock onto the bass drum i.e. every bass drum beat should be covered by a note played by the bass [/quote] I agree with Nige....I completely disagree with this. The bass does not have to cover evey bass drum beat,although it has it's place ...it can just as easily play off the hi hat or any other part of the kit-in fact it can comfortably play off any instrument in the band. Likewise,it isn't just the drummer who is responsible for dictating the pace.....it is everyone's responsibility. Sometimes it's certain members more than others,but the drums should be able to drop out and things should still be grooving.

[quote name='Bassdriver' timestamp='1331486712' post='1573564'] :-) Use your ears, play from your heart rather than your brain and you won't go far wrong. For me the truth is you don't 'need to know which notes you're playing to know whether it sounds right or not. If you want to be able to sight read then yes you're going to need to know your way across the fingerboard pretty well. [/quote] Use your ears...Yes. But play from the heart and not the brain? Not this argument again? The whole point of learning about scales and chord tones is so you can play what you feel without spending ages searching for the notes you want-you study,which becomes internalised and then it comes out in your playing. It will only affect your playing in a positive way. The notes don't matter as long as it sounds right is often another bogus concept.I've heard so many people play,for example, a b7 over a Maj7 chord or play a minor pentatonic over a major chord and they don't hear that for the majority of times it actually sounds bad...it's just a stock lick that they do. It's not about reading either-why would you not want to learn the fingerboard? Are people really going to be happy waiting around while you stare at the neck while searching for a certain note? I don't see any excuse for not learning the notes on the fingerboard.

[quote name='WalMan' timestamp='1331485889' post='1573536'] You needed to be at TM Stevens masterclass @ LBGS last Sunday. Preaching a great deal of the "believe in yourself" mantra. that I know I should pay attention to and not constantly do myself down [/quote] I find the confidence thing to be a fine balancing act. You need to have the confidence that when you get on the bandstand you will nail the gig,but it's also very easy to become so confident and content that it just becomes arrogance. I'm really confident in my ability,yet I still feel that there is room for improvement and I approach the gigs,lessons and other musicians with a sense of humility because you never know when you'll come across something (or someone) that is currently beyond you-if you come in with a sense of arrogance you will invariable look a twat.

[quote name='Bobo_Grimmer' timestamp='1331481087' post='1573419'] Say on the 4 string i play a 2 octave G major scale. i see the shape and remember that shape. (i use a 3 note per string kind of shape, well thats what i've found/sounds right) On the 5 string, because of the low B, i can play the same 2 octave scale but only move once. this may sound very bad to say but i can't find how that shape i'm trying to remember is going to be used in a song/bass line. i guess because i don't know what those notes are i'm playing..... [/quote] I'm just going to take these two quotes for now. It's possible to play a G major scale on a 4 string with only one position shift-although you do have to use extended fingering. How do scales get used in a bassline? Do you know anything about chord tones and arpeggios? All major diatonic (in key) harmony is basically derived from a major scale....for example in the key of G major,the basic diatonic chords are G,Am,Bm,C,D,Em,F#mb5 . All the notes within each of these chords can all be found within the G major scale. So if you understand how arpeggios work (1,3,5 of each chord),you can begin to move away from the root and play more interesting lines.

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1331480396' post='1573406'] Lovin' the country check shirt vibe, y'all. [/quote] Haha....Gotta dress appropriate for the gig. Yee'Ha!

Here's one taken few weeks ago before doing a country set.

[quote name='Townes1992' timestamp='1331461591' post='1572996'] Well for a while my practicing was pretty stagnant, i wasn't pushing myself like i should have been, learning repetitive riffs over and over. But as of late I've been focusing mainly on slapping and the three finger plucking technique. I really do enjoy practicing these, my issues arise when it comes to learning songs, I can listen for hours to a certain bass style, whether it be Jaco or Flea or whoever and can sometimes replicate a similar sound or run of notes without having to learn the actual song. It seems that once i listen long enough to something i need to exert it somehow and it just comes out from my fingers haha! But sitting and learning a whole bassline by an artists who's been replicated over and over is a difficult for me :/ [/quote] Slapping and three finger stuff is cool,but how about studying some harmony? It really does help you to hear things on recordings.For example,you mention Flea,and if you know about scales and arpeggios and things it becomes pretty easy to hear that a lot of his lines are based around minor pentatonics. Likewise,Jaco played quite a lot of chord tones in his lines and solos. [quote name='silddx' timestamp='1331477944' post='1573353'] Gawd knows why so many bassists seem to think it's the kick drum though. It's really so far off beam, and I think it really shows how limited these bassists believe their compositional role is. [/quote] Because lots of (particularly) rock players say in interviews that the bass should be 'married' to the bass drum....I'm looking at you Billy Sheehan Consequently,a lot of people think that if the bass drum is playing a dotted quaver- quaver-minim pattern then the bass has to play the same....it doesn't.

For your budget,I'd have to recommend looking at the secondhand market. Recently I've seen some great instruments for quite a lot under your budget-including Music Man,Warwick,Warrior and higher range Fender and Ibanez. If you want a new bass,you can get some nice Fenders or Overwaters for that price.Ibanez and Yamaha also do some nice instruments that are well within your budget.