drTStingray
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Posts posted by drTStingray
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53 minutes ago, TimR said:
I wonder if this is part of why these old Fenders are worth so much now. People who now have quite large funds chasing their childhood dreams amd buying instruments they've never been able to afford before, regardless of quality or sound.
Most of my contemporaries (musicians generally eg keyboard players, guitarists) bought what they wanted on finance. However I got bought something slightly different (instrument wise) for a landmark birthday - and no one had more than one instrument - by the time I was looking to buy a quality instrument a few years later it was a Stingray (at £375 with no hard case - I’d already got one so didn’t bother and in any case I’d only just about got the money for the Stingray).I would confess to having played several natural/maple Precisions in the last few years - have not succumbed although got quite close with one.
The other interesting point is that in 1973 I could have probably picked up a custom colour Precision for less than the price of the new one - I would have been as likely to do that as buy a Shadows record at that time (both considered equally past it and an anachronism at the time!!!!) I would confess to having been more tempted by both in recent years 🤣😀
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In 1973 a brand new Fender Precision in natural ash with a maple board was £252 (I know - I lusted over it!!!). It was more than a quarter of my annual salary.
If I was now on 40 hrs a week (under 21 yrs old) at minimum wage (£8-60 per hour), I would be earning £16,512 per annum - so on that basis an 18 yr old me could afford a £4,100 bass guitar - thus team built Fender CS (or the far superior Musicman, which would be even less).
Bah - the youngsters of today don’t know they’re born lol!!! And before a series of excruciatingly stupid political decisions, following which the exchange rate crashed (thanks Nigel et al) you’d have got these basses for an even smaller proportion of your salary (although the Musicman would have not been as good as offered these days - they’ve upped their product in line with price increases - the Fender’s still the same, just pricier).
And please don’t use those CPI calculators - as everyone (should) know, they only work on certain average products and most certainly not luxury goods (high quality musical instruments fit into that category). Just try putting the price at say 1996 of a two bedroomed terraced house in the south and see what the calculator claims it’s worth, based on inflation and then compare with reality…….. in the immortal words of Fleetwood Mac “you might not get the answer that you wanted to” 😀
(Post script - CPI doesn’t include housing costs I think - do the same with RPI - similar outcome I think!!)
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There could be various reasons.
Room could resonate on G - I once played several times in a room which reverberated horribly on A - as many songs were in A this was very problematic.
I would try playing G at fret 5 D string - also is it possible you have the bass boosted on the bass or amp (I find the pre sets on Fender Rumbles can be problematic - in fact I’ve only used them in jam sessions - and found they can be very scooped (bass and treble boosted, mids cut). This could affect this.
The G may sound louder dependent on what other band members are doing at that point (eg low notes on a keyboard, low bar chord on guitar; even the EQ ing of those instruments could affect this).
It may be worth you trying the Stingray with the amp and soloed - play notes up the E or A strings and see if they become boomier the higher you go - if so it’s possible the pick up is set too high - check against factory settings.
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In 1973 a brand new Fender Precision in natural ash with a maple board was £252 (I know - I lusted over it!!!). It was more than a quarter of my annual salary.
If I was now on 40 hrs a week (under 21 yrs old) at minimum wage (£8-60 per hour), I would be earning £16,512 per annum - so on that basis an 18 yr old me could afford a £4,100 bass guitar - thus team built Fender CS (or the far superior Musicman, which would be even less).
Bah - the youngsters of today don’t know they’re born lol!!! And before a series of excruciatingly stupid political decisions, following which the exchange rate crashed (thanks Nigel et al) you’d have got these basses for an even smaller proportion of your salary (although the Musicman would have not been as good as offered these days - they’ve upped their product in line with price increases - the Fender’s still the same, just pricier).
And please don’t use those CPI calculators - as everyone (should) know, they only work on certain average products and most certainly not luxury goods (high quality musical instruments fit into that category). Just try putting the price at say 1996 of a two bedroomed terraced house in the south and see what the calculator claims it’s worth, based on inflation and then compare with reality…….. in the immortal words of Fleetwood Mac “you might not get the answer that you wanted to” 😀
(Post script - CPI doesn’t include housing costs I think - do the same with RPI - similar outcome I think!!)
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On 26/03/2024 at 22:02, TheGreek said:
Expect every toilet seat pun/ joke out there.
But in my experience only occasionally, and always from bass players, who represent a part of the small percentage of those who frequent bass fora 😀 and an even smaller proportion of bass players overall - so almost never.
You’ll find the pointy headstock an excellent implement if/when you encounter such people (in my experience they usually are wielding some form of P bass in sunburst and rarely get further than 8th notes (if that) on open strings 😵💫)
Anyway, back to reality - the Bongo 5HH is an extremely versatile instrument - and as with any active bass, you can get towards a more vintage tone (if that’s what you want sometimes) by plucking the strings over the neck joint.
My experience with gigging Bongos has been people asking what sort of bass it is and how refreshing to see and hear a bass that’s not a boring thing hiding in the corner and barely audible.
I would concur that the P Special in P/H form doesn’t sound like a Musicman humbucker - I also tried one at one stage but ended up buying a Stingray 5 after trying loads of different 5 strings (the couple of Bongos came later).
They're great to play, have rock solid construction, great overall quality and are highly versatile.
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I just noticed this pop up - 2018 Stingray Special on Descending
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The HH (and discontinued HS) basses are 4 band EQ - the rarer H version is 3 band (note the John Myung signature is quite different).
That is a very good price and a nice colour. As previously stated, you could easily get your money back and more possibly.
Bongos are very versatile basses and can do quite traditional bass sounds (in the right hands with the right technique) and very modern sounds - they’re very versatile and quite the looker, in a live setting.
In terms of playability the neck is very similar in feel to a Stingray 5 but with 24 frets.
Very nice bass.
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Alan Spenner’s sound on Roxymusic albums (eg Avalon) is a classic Wal sound - makes use of the Q control (see also the Scotts Bass Lessons feature on them and on Flea - they also conclude the Q control gets that unique sound).
Otherwise, to me, they sound very Stingrayish (dual pick up version) or Sabre-like - perhaps a little more powerful.
Re @Misdee query regarding Alan Spenner’s Wal, I saw him playing a gig at the beginning of the 80s with the Kokomo line up - during the gig he played a couple of solos one of which was slapped - I would say, from the sound, he was using roundwound strings. Also they covered a couple of Rose Royce songs and he got that Alembic type of sound famous on those later songs. From the mid 70s few people in the U.K. were interested in a flatwound bass sound (I don’t even remember them being readily available in shops) although its almost certain Bernard Edwards’ Stingray had the GHS flats which these shipped with until 1978 production (went to GHS rounds). His bass was/is a 77.
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3 hours ago, BigRedX said:
Is there a "Wal sound"?
The three players I most closely associate with the basses - Mick Karn, Leigh Gorman and Justin Chancellor all sound very different.
Can you get close to all the sounds that three use with any of the current crop of Wal-alikes?
I haven’t seen Alan Spenner or Percy Jones mentioned but they got/get a specific sound and were probably amongst the most prominent of players of Wals. Alan Spenner can be heard on many Roximusic tracks but the Wal sound appears on the late 70s ones such as Avalon and Jealous Guy. Percy Jones is on the Brand X stuff and got a very distinctive sound. I was lucky enough to see both of them live in the late 70s/early 80s and they sounded excellent.
I followed Alan Spenner’s career from the late 60s - he was a Precision player until getting the Wal in the mid 70s. Whilst he sounded good on a Precision the Wal made his playing really come to life as you could actually hear the detail of his playing. Leo Lyons also used one on a mid 80s live performance with one of the several reformed versions of Ten Years After - this one with the original line up - same effect - you could hear the detail of his playing and it was a fuller sound compared with his customary Jazz.
Stingrays get reasonably close to Wals in the right hands but the Wal really scores with the ‘Q’ control - in fact the Scott’s Bass Lessons feature on them discusses this - it is the stand out difference between a Wal and anything else and also features on those Alan Spenner tracks (PS is it just me or is Scott appearing with basses which are more and more wrecked looking - they all appear to need a decent repaint in my view - just look decidedly tatty and old fashioned 😀😉)
I would still like a Wal (I prefer the detailed and full sound rather than the current fad for bass sounds where much is inaudible or even worse, plodding in the background). However some of the prices are eye watering - we have the sh*te exchange rate to blame for that, as it’s quite attractive for Americans to buy them - silly political choices eh……..
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V nice - the Bongo looks great in very bold colours - I never understood why they didn’t offer HD yellow on it (was one of a range of Stingray Special launch colours in 2018).
The maple fretboard on a Bongo isn’t quite a first - I’ve got one (one of 67 limited edition from 2019!!) although it’s a flamed maple fretboard. 😀
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5 hours ago, Old Horse Murphy said:
I love that Kiwi Green 5 String but (cost aside) unless I could specify one that weighs under 8.5lbs and one where the G String isn't so bloody close to the edges of the fretboard with confidence, it's never going to happen.
The Stingray 5 Specials are normally in the 8lb ish range. My Cruz teal 5 HH is 8 lbs. My 2019 crescendo (very white) Bongo 5HH is under 8 lbs so I think you’d stand a good chance. Re the string spacing etc, I guess it’s part of the design to have 5 strings on a fretboard of that width - I have five Musicman five strings, have gigged all of them (some very regularly) and have really only seldom pulled the G string over the side of the frets - and only at home practicing (noodling). I guess it’s something you get used to and is offset by the ability to play easily and quickly across the neck. One of the reasons I bought my original SR5, having tried a range of different makes was the slickness of the neck and the ability to play a five string but with relatively small hands. I have to say, I found some makes to have less manageable wide fretboards. None of the others got the sound I was after!!
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1 hour ago, hiram.k.hackenbacker said:
My SLO was £1900 new in March 2017. Likewise, my Special was £2.2k new in Oct 2018.
It will be interesting to see how much they are charging in 2024.
I’d imagine £3k plus. I paid for just under £3k for both my BFR Bongo and Tim Commerford long scale passive Stingray. When you consider that a Pino Signature team built Fender Custom Shop Precision is £4.5 k, this seems reasonable - a standard Musicman is on a par with these - picking special options is somewhat better - all the necks are hand finished in terms of shape and finish and the bodies, and the woods are picked for character if they’re going to form part of a figured neck or transparent body finish. Last time I looked, people were asking £9k for a nice used Wal so £3-4 k for a specially selected fretless, for instance sounds ok to me.
I can imagine getting something like a fretless HH in a smart colour - however I do already have too many basses lol 🤣🤣 where the hell does one store all the cases!!!! And I don’t have any of those ones with huge cases like Alembics!!!
Great news for lefties as well 👍
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As it says in the title - page to the bottom for the new custom design selection service - includes fretless, SLO neck profile, left handed, 30 unique colours - to be available via the on line shop (The Vault)
https://blog.music-man.com/instruments/ernie-ball-music-man-new-at-namm-2024/
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34 minutes ago, tauzero said:
Sugababes - forgettable crap pop.
What you mean you didn’t notice the slap bass on their 2nd song - I thought that one was great - oo hang on I forgot - slap bass is as verboten as Rick**bo**er on Basschat 🤣🤣😀
To pick up on another of your points, I thought Dave Swift’s bass sound was great all night (and the drummer wasn’t irritatingly high in the mix as is usual in post 1995 live performances) - however Dave appears to have succumbed to BGRS (bass guitarist regression syndrome) - in his case he’s got back to upright bass (not P with flats or Rivoli or EB2 with flats - even further) he played upright ALL night - and it sounded great.
I do wonder when some bassists with BGRS will revert back to 14th century bass instruments - or further - I guess it’ll come at some point…….. 🥴😀😀
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44 minutes ago, neepheid said:
Well, I'm happy to swim against the tide. I enjoyed it. I suppose that makes me a cloth-eared music hater. The appearance of the yearly "how crap was the Hootananny (sic)?" thread/moanfest is as predictable as gravity.
Me too - I thought it was far better than usual to be honest - there again I like hearing the band arrangements (which were quite stunning at times) and the female singers they had on were really special.
I like the way this thread on Basschat (along with quite a number of others) feels like walking into alternative reality 🤣
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I once looked into buying a Fender Precision but amongst the eye watering range of apparently the same instrument from relatively cheap to eye watering prices, I couldn’t decide which one to get………. apparently there’s even one called a Vintera (without Vintera on the headstock) and an Ultra, an Ultra 11, American Professional, American Professional 11 - and various other baffling models.
As per @warwickhunt I concluded Fender, along with Warwick, Musicman and probably several other companies making guitars have very confusing marketing strategies which involve updating their models every couple of years and issuing umpteen variants. Probably Fender is the most confusing to those who don’t follow their activities on a day to day basis. But they all seem to be doing OK!!
Now the Stingray is quite straightforward - there are just several variants (currently) and have been several variants in the past. Best bet is to find a shop with some in stock and try playing them and pick the one you like.
If you want to know what’s available now, the best bet is to go on their web site and look!! The Stingray has been around for nearly 50 yrs - during which time there’ve been a lot of different variations on the same concept.
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1 hour ago, rodney72a said:
Don't forget that the early EBMMs were contoured, whereas the Classics had a slab body. Also, unlike the Classics, the early EBMMs (up to 1990) had the truss adjuster at the headstock.
And yes, they were superb.
This is true - the slab body being the other difference from a 90s era Stingray. The early EB ones are pretty much as the later pre EBs, but with a contoured body. They’re all excellent!!
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On 07/11/2023 at 17:08, Misdee said:
Maybe EBMM have missed a trick not reissuing an early EBMM-era bass. They were superb, I seem to remember.
That’s exactly what the Stingray Classic was, hence the highly figured necks (which most 90s Stingrays also had). The only difference was the bridge having strings through, a feature dropped on Stingrays originally around 1980/81, and the truss Rod wheel finished in chrome (these features were not on the Sabre Classic).
2 hours ago, Quatschmacher said:Indeed, bullet truss and 3-bolt neck seems like an unnecessary step backwards.
It’s meant to be a period correct 1970s Musicman - if you want the 90s version, you could get a used one or a used Stingray Classic.
For me, there’s some advantage in having a period correct new 70s Stingray rather than a worn original one - although there are good condition original ones around, there are also those which are quite badly worn. I guess it’s a similar comparison as original Fender bass v Custom Shop. There appears to be a market for both!
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On 03/11/2023 at 22:40, Eldon Tyrell said:
Or we are just all BROKE 😞
Most likely, yes - this is GB after all (and even Nigel’s broke (relatively!!😀) according to banks!!). Looking at the more expensive stuff in Marketplace it seems you’re right.
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On 31/10/2023 at 17:51, Eldon Tyrell said:
These look great but £3299 is quite a bit beyond my bass budget, I am afraid 😞
However, good news is that, according to Peach Guitars, the price "was" £3799 (not sure when as they just listed them today), so maybe they really are a bargain 😉
https://www.peachguitars.com/music-man-retro-stingray-bass-70s-stingray-h-black.htm
https://www.peachguitars.com/music-man-retro-stingray-bass-70s-stingray-h-white.htm
It appears the Peach ones have been sold. Judging by the apparent lack of interest on Basschat (compared with Talkbass where there have been about 300 replies to the thread…) I can only assume this is because BC may have ceased to be a beacon of what’s going on, basswise these days - or maybe the U.K. has stagnated, bass wise!!! 🥴🤣
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Stingray proper as per 1976/77 even down to the original long pole pieces and tantalum capacitors it seems.
The natural finish is only available in the on line shop (The Vault) - hmmm…. they ship internationally!
I suppose when you compare the price to a used pre EB Stingray, you’re getting the same thing, with new parts, but with warranty etc etc. Similar principle (and price) to, say a Fender CS Pino bass!!
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5 hours ago, chris_b said:
My batteries last at least 12 months. I change them every year.
A system simple enough that even I can make it work.
5 hours ago, EBS_freak said:I don’t get why folk seem to be having such a problem with batteries?
Precisely!! I have a reasonable number of active basses - I carry spare batteries - however when I change them I add one of those circular coloured stickers to the battery (s) and write the date on them. I’m currently changing batteries which are 2-3 yrs old simply as a precaution.This really is about as much of an issue as worrying about breaking a string. I haven’t carried a spare bass or strings for years, in fact I don’t remember the last time I broke one (maybe sometime in the 80s owing to aggressive slapping!!).
As with everything else on the internet I suspect some of the people stating there is an issue might not even use an active bass 😂 I must admit I have a couple of basses which are virtually the same, one active one passive. I don’t use the passive one when I require certain types of sound as it’s not the best for that - I certainly wouldn’t give the battery much more than cursory thought, and then probably only if I hadn’t used it for a while.
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Superb - apparently he played the famous fretless stuff (like Bergerac theme) on that.
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Dependent on which version of the SR5H it’s probably worth £1500 if a Musicman rather than an SBMM (more if a post 2018 Special or something v rare (like a fretless or very very rare colour). I’d just buy the OE and swallow the £25 cost tbh, to keep it standard - my 2003 one started to get a bit scratchy at one time - I simply moved it back and forth swiftly a few times and it’s been perfectly ok for the fifteen years or so since - thinking back I probably affected it when I changed the pickguard 🫢
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Prices in the olden days
in General Discussion
Posted
You’re right - cases were often not included at that time.