tbonepete

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Thanks guys, Seems an ask too far! C'est la vie. Cheers Pete :-)

Hi BCers, I'm trying to get the sound from my amp/cab to match that of the pre DI sound, however there always seems to be the baked in sound of the amp present through the cab that isn't in the clean DI sound. Is there any way to match these sounds, or is the only way to ditch the amp altogether and use a decent DI and monitor, or iem? I've found this to be the case FOR ME with any amp that I've owned, and not just the stuff I have at the moment, so I don't think it's my Amps/cabs (even though they're not particularly good ones). Bottom line, I want a clean flat sound that I can eq from just the bass, and not the baked in sound from the amp (with every eq control set at neither cut or boost). A problem too far??? Cheers Pete :-)

[quote name='Emanew' timestamp='1440624090' post='2852554'] I recently bought tc gear (RH750, RS210, RS112). And i spent a long time reading all these tech specs Here tc electronic cabs powerhandling : RS210 : 400w 8 Ohm RS212 / 400w 8 Ohm RS410 : 600w 8 Ohm RS112 : 200w 8 Ohm And each tc speakers are designed to stand the biggest head : the RH 750 This head can drive 3 cabs. I would add 2,6666.... Ohm minimun Check : "Cabinet Configurations" http://www.tcelectronic.com/rh750/ I hope it helps [/quote] Thanks Emanew, Like you I have recently bought rh750, and a bh800, and rs210, and rs210c, but alas I really can't get on with the gear, so I will as soon as finances allow change again, but the reason for the question was so I didn't damage the cabs before I could move them on as I'll probably have to use them with another head, unless I manage to move the TC gear on as a package. The specs of 400w aren't specific enough especially when there's all the hoohaa surrounding the power output of the amps. Happily though TC said the cabs are rated using RMS figures, so I can relax when trying different heads. Well, that's the plan anyway.................. Hehe Cheers Pete :-)

Asked the same question to TC direct. Their answer is RMS, so that's comforting. I also asked about frequency range, but that wasn't answered, Also, this applies to the cabs asked about in my question to TC ( rs210, and rs210c), so I can't tell what the K series, or earlier BC series are, but would "guess" at RMS also. Hope that helps someone in the future. Cheers Pete :-)

Hi Bass chatters, I know about the bun fight regarding TC amps power figures, and to be honest I've read most all the posts I can find, on here, and over the other place, and I'm still none the wiser, but I want to know if the cabs figures are based on TC watts (WHATS???), or something more usual such as I would have heard of. I've looked on their site, but it just says watts, but not what sort of watts (RMS/ PEAK/ PROGRAM/ MPO/ PMPO, ETC)!!! Lol. Info would be good, please, and thankyou. For info, I find myself owning two of these (mainly Hobson's choice, as there's not much locally available), and don't want to knacker them by feeding them too much! Yes I know I could always listen, but in my experience that only works in isolation.... Try listening when at a gig and you're right on top of your amp/cabs, and the guitarist is giving it large on an overdriven vox ac30 2x12, and the Hammond player is equally got a left hand obsession complete with large amounts of Leslie sim, and dirt in the sound!. So I thought I'd ask here first. Please, and thankyou. Cheers Pete :-)

I can't help thinking that the RMS figure would be something the MUSIC group wouldn't want to shout about, hmmm......................

Hi Greg, Difficult one that.... I wouldn't describe The sound from Paul Turner, Nick Fyffe, or Stuart Zender as particularly clean, they all have a certain amount of "hair" to the notes, and that isn't what the Markbass head does (I can't comment on the newer heads though as they have a different power section), you'd probably have to go the pedal route, or if there's still time to send the head back go for a less " clean" head such as the TC rh450/750, Aguilar th350/500 etc. the LM iii is a great amp though, so you may find a work around. Cheers Pete.

Hi bassman7755, The question is a general question on how a set of frequencies in a song/or set of songs is populated by band members who are playing said song/songs, ie the mix. Amps and cabs aspect are meaningless in this context as what I play, who I play with, where I play, and what we all play on are all going to be different to the same question applied to you and your band, so it's really about the mix. More particularly, it's about the relationship between the stage mix, and the front of house mix. This is why I used the terms combo A, and combo B in the original post. It was meant to differentiate between two different scenarios that's all. I see that wasn't as clear as it could have been when I saw a post thinking that I was using two combos, and intimating that combos aren't very good anyway. So, I've received some interesting and informative posts on the subject in question, and JTUK's recent post would seem to point to a practical non combative way of getting a decent mix. I'm of the opinion (and it's only an opinion), that it's all about the mix, not all about the bass per se. The question also was aimed at the wider world, not just me, as every musician bassist or otherwise has it in their best interests to make the whole band sound good, again it's the mix, not individuals equipment at play here. If you still think it's a question about amps and cabs be my guest in getting the title changed and getting the thread moved to amps and cabs where you can take the thread over, I don't mind. Cheers Pete.

[quote name='bassman7755' timestamp='1435814425' post='2812605'] Surely the whole point of playing in front of a audience is to give them the best possible sound, otherwise why bother, why not just play for yourselves in a rehearsal room ?. You seem to have discounted the notion that its possible to be the right level out front and still hear youeself on stage which is a bit of a limiting attitude. You could get creative and try something like having a small powered wedge monitor which is slaved to your amp and pointed directly at your ears. [/quote] Hi bassman7755, I fully agree with your first sentence. Your second sentence though is off the mark. It's your assumption that I haven't tried a monitor, and I'm not sure I agree with your comment about my attitude either, but I suppose you're entitled to your opinion. The main reason I'm responding is that it's still not an equipment question, but a musical question! There's always a mix good or bad, so is it better to sit in it, or be buried in it by the other players? This could equally apply to the guitarist who thinks the keys are in his/her space, or the vox who thinks everyone is in his/her space. Just trying to get some discussion about the musical aspect, and resultant difficulties of getting a musical mix that doesn't involve everything being louder than everything else. My personal experiences are that everything goes through the PA usually because the vox are usually using iem. It's a function band, not a stadium rock band, so the ideal would indeed be moderate stage volume (controlled by the drummer, and there's only one way that's going to go if the back line has monitors pointing at them, and more importantly, the drummer too), FOH mix from the main desk, that can be as different as the room, or occasion demands. Context is the key here, it's music for parties, and weddings, etc, not stadium, thrash gigs. Above all though, it's not a question about amps and cabs. Lol. Cheers Pete.

[quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1435773794' post='2812357'] Credit where it's due; this (below...) was being posted at the same time, and has pragmatic, practical advice as to how to achieve this fine balance. It can be done, quite easily, once all band members are working towards the same objective with open ears. Good luck with it all; it's very satisfying when it's all glueing together. [/quote] Yes, absolutely. I Also was responding to your post whilst others were coming through. iPad is being a bit strange today after an update. Thanks to all, I'm looking forward to having a proper gig type rehearsal to sort out the toe treading sound issues so that we can all be happy. The result of which should be a MUCH better band too, so that has to be a good thing! Cheers Pete

[quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1435771917' post='2812328'] There is no 'magic bullet' for the situation described here. A prerequisite to getting a good sound which fulfills the 3 criteria (in order: good for the audience, good for the band and good for the yourself...) is comprehensive and competent partners. If they'r not playing to the same song sheet, you'll always lose out. You make the comparison yourself; in your 'pit' work, this problem doesn't arise. You'll have to get your colleagues to have the same approach as the orchestral guys. If that can't be done, give the audience your best and grit your teeth, snarling. Cooperation is what you're after, I'd say. I can't recommend a stockist, though, as I already have enough; my band mates are already up to speed. Sorry. [/quote] And we have a winner!!! Hmmm, gritted teeth you say.... Might try that. The function band is at my request going to have a half day at a venue where we can try various things out including a sound balance at proper gig volume in a proper venue. Things just can't get sorted by using a small practice studio room with sound deadening panels etc, and neither can home volume eq settings work at gig volumes with other real players (as opposed to play a long type music). I was recently told by a fine Hammond player of a renowned sound engineer who when asked how he eq' for orchestra replied that the composer had already done that for him! Carefully paying mind to the sound as a whole and not too much treading on each other's toes I guess. It's kind of "get off my land" but in a musical context, and hopefully much more humour, and better musical results (I hope!). Cheers Pete

[quote name='tauzero' timestamp='1435768448' post='2812293'] I think it's a false dichotomy as you can have both reasonable on-stage sound and good out-front sound. [/quote] Yes, that's the aim, but HOW? when there's so much going on in the area of frequencies that the bass has to play in? Whole band mix anybody? Cheers Pete

Thanks, Some good posts, and food for thought. It's still not a question about amps and cabs, mine or otherwise, but more about the lot of a bass player in the mix when all around him/ her are wanting to be bassists as well (ie left hand heavy keys, saturated guitar with bass cranked up etc.). My own experience is that the theatre work I do is no problem as a) the band of what ever size has written parts, and generally these are nicely separated in terms of frequencies, and sound patches. it would largely be iem for the whole band with personal mix via cat5 Roland mixers for all. Live function work however is a different kettle of fish! A) venue varies each time, the material varies more than a typical theatre show, c) guitar, and keys are required to use different sounds for different songs (each seemingly louder and more bass heavy than the last! Hehe), so what bass sound that's good for one song is bobbins for another song! Personally for the type of work I do I'm not interested in using gear based on reviews that contain the words growl, and punch, as I want to make music not have a fight. My own equipment contains loud, clean and modular pieces, and I'm not looking to buy more, or different stuff which will ultimately not change anything for me in terms of sitting, or fitting in the mix. Cheers Pete.

[quote name='ezbass' timestamp='1435763081' post='2812231'] Sitting in the mix to me means having your own sonic space where you can be heard, support the sound as a bass should and not step on any other band member's toes. A muddy, boomy mess might fill out the sound, but it's not musical. A shrill, cutting sound might accentuate what you're playing, but it doesn't fulfil part of the bass player's remit. [/quote] Thank you for the post, it admirably describes the problem, but how to rectify......... That's the issue. Of course the answer will be different according to line up, genre, venue, etc, but still it's a problem worth trying to solve (or not)?. At the bottom there's the kick drum, some of the toms might be in the middle, valve driven guitar amps, and Hammond type organs/Rhodes type pianos also in the mids, cymbals at the top, and that's not even including the vox which are arguably the most important , so where's the bass supposed to fit in????. Happy bassist on stage with crap out front sound or muddy thud on stage and happy audience? Financially of course it's the audience that should win, but it would be nice to have a little fun myself too!, lol. Cheers Pete.

I think I better clarify. I briefly thought about putting this in Amps, and. cabs, BUT, as it's a question about music within a band context, and NOT a question about equipment I put it in this forum. Combo in this instance was used to describe equipment A, and B, and in one instance is an actual combo, but the other is amp and cabs, BUT as this isn't an equipment question that's largely irrelavent. The question is about music as a whole, and not just the bass, so is it better to be so far in the mix to the point where one is having a hard job distinguishing what one is playing (but is complimented from those out front), or should the focus be on the stage sound and bugger everyone else? It's a bit simplistic I know, but I want to point out that the question is A not aimed just at me, and B, it's still not an amps and cabs question. Is a whole band mix possible without falling out, and if so are there any sources of reference for sonic bliss in a live context. I've looked extensively at mixing with reference to studio recording, but these "rules" don't always translate well in a live context. Blimey, I'm confusing myself now........... But it's still not a question about my gear!!!! Cheers Pete.

Greetings bass cognoscenti, I've been pondering lately the answer to this question, as I'm always on the trail of the perfect sound..... I must point out that up to now I've failed 100% of the time (at least for my own satisfaction). The question is, At what point is sitting in the mix counterproductive? Is there such a thing as being so far IN the mix as to not be completely sure of what it is exactly that you are playing?. It's at this point the master volume gets used (I'm not alone in this, and the question is a general one, not aimed just at me). If I'm playing one combo I can play at a moderate volume, hear myself clearly, not deafen the vox infront of me, and all is well on stage, BUT if I use another combo the sound is altogether more muddy, boomy, and deafens the vox, BUT sits in the mix out front nicely, BUT (2) I can't hear a bloody thing except wooly mud. Quick answer would be to use combo A, and ditch combo B. Nice and simple, however I'm for moving on combo A as I just don't identify with the manufacturers modus operandi. I have a feeling it could be a bigger issue than just me, ie, a full mix for the benefit of the whole band, as opposed to six individuals playing at the same time, and fighting for the sonic real estate? I just don't know...... Hmmmm. Thanks for looking, if you have any thoughts on the wider problem of band mixes please impart your wisdom. Cheers Pete