Bilbo

I was also reading a guest editorial in Jazztimes (US jazz magazine) by Vijay Iyer (pianist) and he made an interesting point about the profile of non-mainstream music (jazz in this case but it woudl apply to everything). He said 'its not about the [i]accessibility[/i] of new music but about [i]access[/i] to it'. You just don't get to hear it because its hidden. Those of you who aren't jazz fans, for instance, ask yourself when you last heard a jazz tune that was released this year. Bet it wasn't today, this week, this month or probably even this year. Same with folk, prog-rock etc etc. Its not there; anywhere. Mind you, reverting back to another thread I started about classic rock LPs I have never heard - I have never heard a KISS album either although I did see them live once (post unmaksed and in daylight so minimal show)

I was just thinking. I have played thousands of gigs over 30+ years, playing rock/metal, funk, pop, Latin and Jazz and the biggest audience I ever played to was 4,500. With a 7-piece jazz band. I wish I could say it was playing originals but they weren't, although they were original arrangements of standards written by our lead trumpet player. Second biggest gig (2,500) was a pop gig playing all originals. Every covers band gig I have ever done has been to a maximum of 200 and often to much smaller audiences. Makes you think.

If you have never played fretless before, it will probably take you about two days to get your playing close enough to functional. Don't make these fretless things out to be anything unusual. A zillion violin, viola, cello and double bass players can't all be geniuses. Fretmarkers are not taht useful really. Its a case of a little thought/application and you're away. Never tried the Warwick you mention.

[quote name='skankdelvar' post='1155306' date='Mar 9 2011, 01:42 PM']You are one of our deeper thinkers[/quote] Boy, are you guys in trouble......

Anyone bowing this?

Which brings me to my latest batch. A Branford Marsalis live cd called 'Bloomington' where he performs in trio with Jeff Watts and Robert Hurst. Marvellous stuff. Major elements of improvisation and interplay. On the opposite end of the scale, I 'upgraded' from vinyl to cd a copy of the Wynton Marsalis recording 'Hot Hosue Flowers' which is a trumpet led jazz quartet with strings. Jazz with strings is always a tense marriage but this one has some real highlights. I have also rediscovered an old Avishai Cohen cd called Adama which has some great playing on it (although I find Cohen's double bass sound a bit 'choked' to use a term Jakesbass uses). I love this jazz stuff - not intellectual affectation; pure visceral joy. Have another look at this and please watch it to the end to get the full buzz.

Let's get this straight. Playing in a tribute band takes a certain level of skill and attention to detail and I am sure it stretches some people at least a little sometimes. Its great that the audience can have a great evening being entertained in a nostalgic kind of way, seeing a live band doing stuff by a band they liked when they were younger or never got to see but who no longer tour. Its great that the landlords make their money and their pubs stay open. Its great that the musicians get to work and its great that they get lots of money for their trouble (actually, some of them barely break even but that's another story). Its wonderful that all these people are happy, contented and set up for life, just like the girl someone mentioned who bought her house on the proceeds of singing to backing tapes. Good luck to her. I (and many others, musos and potential audiences alike) just think its a shame that this is what punters settle for. Just like chefs who hate Macdonalds or ready meals, theatre directors who hate Lloyd Webber or the artists who hated Athena. Some people think the public are being shortchanged and wish to draw attention to that belief. I also know that nobody cares in the slightest what I think. I don't expect anyone to stop doing it. I don't expect anyone to throw themselves on their sword. I don't expect venues to stop booking profit making bands in favour of loss making originals bands. I don't expect every original to be the most astonishing piece of music ever. I don't expect everyone to throw the towel in and start jazz bands. I don't claim my favourite music is better than anyone else's (except in jest and in advocating for its qualities). I don't think ill of anyone who plays in a covers band or a tribute band. I play 99% covers (inc standards) at every gig I do and don't feel the need to wear sackcloth the day after, just a little frustrated and bored by the repetition. I just think that its a shame that tv is mostly repeats, films are mostly remakes and bands are mostly playing other people' stuff. In my experience, people nearly always like the originals the best, whether its books, film, art or music. Some people are happy to watch repeats, I think its better to watch new stuff. So shoot me.... And, if people are bored with these arguments (and the one about reading) why do these threads always go on for days and days?

I sold one of these once and would like it back...... [url="http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http://pod.ath.cx/guitars/artist/latest/arty-med.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.futureguitarnow.com/forum/index.php%3Ftopic%3D497.0&usg=__1KoaL8qaT7wtvPHa-NSRSKzKtkA=&h=480&w=640&sz=87&hl=en&start=16&zoom=1&tbnid=m9RjGxvG1zo1MM:&tbnh=101&tbnw=147&ei=SH12TcWnG4GeOsHO5PgM&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dibanez%2Bartist%2Bguitar%26hl%3Den%26biw%3D1156%26bih%3D571%26gbv%3D2%26tbs%3Disch:1&itbs=1&iact=rc&dur=234&oei=NX12TdKsBM3Zsga216zyBA&page=2&ndsp=22&ved=1t:429,r:16,s:16&tx=128&ty=48"]Ibanez Artist Guitar[/url]

Its the Macdonaldsisation of music. Tribute bands are small franchises of the bands they copy. Loads of people like them but they are ultimately lacking in nutrition and probably rot your teeth.

[quote name='skankdelvar' post='1153103' date='Mar 7 2011, 10:17 PM']The thing about Classical music is you have to 'get it'. Even if you can't hear any planned, expressive differences, they're most certainly there. If nothing else, conductors spend an inordinate amount of developing original interpretations of pieces. Any score is simply the basis for a kaleidoscope of infinitely subtle possibilities. Of course, it all must seem rather strange and disciplined if one is accustomed to expressing oneself through the relatively unsubtle practise of playing wildly off into the horizon based on no more than a bit of theory, some 'instinct' and some 'soul'. The imposition of the dots - when it occurs - engenders a remarkable distillation of musicianship. The nice thing about classical is it [i]does [/i]allow soloists the opportunity to improvise or ornament certain parts of the performance. These passages are called Cadenzas.[/quote] Are you having a go?

[quote name='niceguyhomer' post='1153334' date='Mar 8 2011, 07:38 AM']Loving the band name [/quote] +1

Does that mean every conversation we ever have must contain new ideas and concepts? We're doomed

The drummer's an animal!!!

[quote name='Pete Academy' post='1152832' date='Mar 7 2011, 07:22 PM']Cracking version of 'Black Friday' you posted recently, Bilbo. [/quote] Don't gloat, PA.....

I used to play 2 octaves of Major, minor, harmonic minor, melodic minor, diminished and augmented scales and all the modes of each. I then play them in broken thirds, fourths, fifths, sixths and sevenths and then arpeggiated scales. Took about an hour a day but all my technique comes from those exercises.

I've never got that 'interpretation' argument in classical music. If you play a piece and someone else plays through the same score, its going to be different and one will be better than the other but its still the same piece so the 'creativity' element is limited to your stab at the dots. I guess its a case of accepting the ethos of the genre. If you like classical, you accept its parameters. If you like covers bands, you make your decision re: whether you prefer 'like the original' or 'a creative re-arrangement'. If you like Tribute bands, you will know whether you prefer the one s who dress the part or the soundalikes. And so on...

[quote name='cd_david' post='1152405' date='Mar 7 2011, 12:49 PM']If the audiences for Jazz and classical gigs were not so heavily subsidised by arts funding in general (in comparison to rock and pop) then Im sure the "more entertaining" music would be self sustaining?[/quote] The amount of arts funding for jazz is derisory, despite it having the same size audience as Opera, which gets millions in funding. Jazz has to compete on the same turf as pop and rock which is why the numbers of musicians in the UK who play jazz for a living is pretty much nil. Most of them supplement their incomes in other ways but rarely through arts funding.

CHristain McBride's line off Rain Check from Joe Henderson's Lush Life cd.

Don't make the mistake of assuming I have a shred of integrity. My point is that it always feels like 'nearly but not quite'. I know that beacuse I [i]do[/i] it. My criticism of the 'covers/tributes' culture is a manifestation of my frustration at what opportunities are available to me both as a player and listener. I lack the courage and fortitude to say 'that's it, I'm never going to play another cover again as long as I live'. I do few enough gigs as it is. That would just be shooting myself in the foot. Maybe one day. I try to do stuff that is a little bit eclectic and stay away from the usual sh*te but, at the core, its just covers, same as everyone else. The only differnce is that I admit its shallow and superficial and want it to change. Others seem happy with the status quo (see what I did there? ).

Good luck. I grew up (musically) in a part of the world where it was mostly originals bands most of the time (S. Wales 1980-85). Most venues would put on originals bands, in some cases several times a week and there were fewer covers bands. But I think the market has changed as all of this is pre-XBox, SKY TV, computers etc so it wa a different environment entirely. Halcyon days.

[quote name='chris_b' post='1152301' date='Mar 7 2011, 10:39 AM']Now look what you've all done!![/quote]

I struggle to get past the idea that playing other people's stuff the way they played it is just pretending - one step up from a tennis racquet in front of the mirror. Tribute bands are just like taking the tennis racquet out in public -

Yup... sucks doesn't it?

I actually agree with the principle that jazz standards amount to covers but I have to point out that the difference between any two performances of a given jazz standard can be massive to the point where the standard is barely recognisable as the same tune whilst the differences between two performances of a classical piece are unlikley to be that radical. The purpose of a covers/tribute band or orchestral piece is to broadly reproduce the original for purposes of entertainment. The purpose of a jazz standard (done properly and not by some jazz b*stard like Buble or Cullem) is to compeletly reconfigure it to display the perforamce skills of the musicians involved albeit still for the purposes of entertainment. Whilst it is perfectly possible for a covers band to radically rearrange a well known tune, it is a lot less common in rock/pop than it is in jazz. That's primarily because Jazz is better But, I agree, jazz standards are a short cut/cop out just as covers are and I would argue that originals indicate a higher degree of creativity.

[quote name='flyfisher' post='1152205' date='Mar 7 2011, 09:26 AM']Funny how no-one ever denigrates symphony orchestras as being a mere 'cover bands'.[/quote] I do