51m0n

Before I started playing bass my mind remembered lyrics to songs Now I dont remember lyrics really without a lot of effort; its bass lines, drum parts, rhythm guitar, keys, backing vox l melody/harmony, lead vox melody. In that order... Am I a freak??

[quote name='cheddatom' post='239847' date='Jul 15 2008, 11:16 AM']Heh, this is all getting a bit confusing. In relation to the OP, I posted "I would suggest buying a good low gain OD pedal, boss ODB-3 or Marshal jackhammer or something similar, and put this in a blend loop at about 50%. Put a compressor with slow attack on your "clean" signal that you're blending with. Put a limiter after the the whole thing." Yeh, a limiter on it's own wouldn't fatten a sound at all.[/quote] I bet that can get pretty Billy Sheehan if you wind up the drive and blend it all nicely. If thats your poison....

[quote name='Happy Jack' post='240074' date='Jul 15 2008, 02:33 PM']I have three drivers for using "exotic" kit (none of which have anything to do with what the pro's use). The first is that a bad workman blames his tools. When something sounds wrong, the easy temptation is to blame the bass/amp/cab/strings/cable/phase of the moon/whatever. I stop myself from doing that by buying kit that I KNOW to be of a higher quality than my playing. If it sounds wrong, it just means that I need to practise more. The second is that it's many years since I could afford to ignore back/neck pains. All of my kit is selected at least partly on the basis of how lightweight it is, hence my interest in Hofner and Bass Collection basses, Eden WT heads, and Eden Nemesis cabs. The only exception is my pair of Eden XLT210 cabs which I bought because ... well, just because really. So much for theory, then. The third follows on from the second. One of the few consolations of being this old (i.e. 51) is that I now have more money than talent. I buy expensive boutique kit partly because I can afford it. And I'm worth it. :brow:[/quote] +1 +1 and I am prepared to save fo ras long as it takes...

Actually I would like to point out ythat a lot of bassists in bigger bands on bigger stages do get a mic on their rig as well as a DI, and these are then blended for FOH. Personally I like the sound of a miced cab, and yes you really can tell. Try a motorhead gig, no way is Lemmie relying on a DI ,m 'special' case or not, its still true...

[quote name='cheddatom' post='239755' date='Jul 15 2008, 09:00 AM']Yeh, I never actually suggested that using a limiter on it's own would help the OP in his quest for a "phat" tone.[/quote] Yeah true, you suggested a comp before that. Sorry to go on about it Your suggestion of a shorter attack on the compression I would say ios a personal taste issue though, alot of the flavour of a compressor is its attack and how it engages, I like to get the punch at the beginning of a note through without the brightoness being afftected by the compressor. So I like a longer attack usually. If I were after a kind of smooth as butter super phat dark R&B tone I'd certainly shorten that attack though... All I'm saying is that strictly speaking the limiter approach isnt going to fatten up the tone. Not trying to suggest its a bad idea (although I dont like limiting or maximising a live rig personally unless its absolutely necessary) for controlling unfriendly signal spikes at all though.

[quote name='cheddatom' post='239024' date='Jul 14 2008, 11:29 AM']I know what you mean but..... I should have specified that my recommendations are for a short attack on the compressor. The only reason you get that "very obvious compression on slaps and pops that people associate with heavy compression" is because of the long attack time. If you have practically 0ms attack , a fairly high threshold, and an extreme ratio, then you get a very subtle but very effective limiter. As far as "phattening up your tone" I suppose a slow attack with a lighter ratio <1:5 and lower threshold would have a better effect. The combination I was talking about would entail this - clean bass mixed with bass through standard compressor with medium attack and ratio, low threshold, and then the whole mix going through a limiter with 0 attack.[/quote] Well yes you are setting up a compressor to act as close to a brick wall limiter as it can, threshold 0db, ratio max:1, attack short as possible (in a compressor that is still measured in ms, in a true brickwall limiter its often down in the nanosecond range), and a mid to long release. That IMO should be hard to hear, unless the gain staging is wrong or you have a very obnoxious compressor. Which is precisely what the OP was trying to avoid, all you are effectively doing is knocking of a tiny amount of the transient attack, fine for policing levels, not so good as an effect in itself. If your bass sounds fat as .... anyway it'll be fine, it wont help the OP at all. He really really doesn't need a limiter here, sorry. I stand by what I said before to help the OP. And on the subject of attack and release times I think their effect on a sound are one of the most misunderstood areas of compression/limiting, so its important to clearly state where to go with them to help.

[quote name='cheddatom' post='236364' date='Jul 10 2008, 11:09 AM']higher threshold and a higher ratio should be more subtle, like a limiter. I suppose it depends how high you mean by "high threshold" but if you set it to 1:infinity with the threshold so high that it only compresses the peaks, you can get a great sound. I like compression blended with clean, running into a limiter.[/quote] OK by higher threshold I mean closer to 0dB (say -9dB to -15dB) as opposed to a lower threshold like -30dB. So in my mind a high threshold causes the compressor to engage less often. Couple with a higher ratio (1:15 for instance) a higher threshold will engage at the peak of the note's initial attack on loud(er) attacks, with a longish attack and short release you tend to get that very obvious compression on slaps and pops that people associate with heavy compression. You dont need to lower the threshold as much for this to be very obvious compression. If you do lower the threshold too much with this type of ratio you end up rapidly choking the signal, especially the bass end. On the other hand if you have a lower ratio (1:2 or 1:3 maybe, less than 1:5 anyways) and the same attack and release you need a much lower threshold before you really notice the compression (it will be working mind, just more subtly). Therefore you can use a much lower threshold and thats where you start to get that fattening up the sound type of compression happening. Very different from the above example, far more subtle to the untrained ear, totally different result in fact and much closer to what the OP wanted to do. As always your ears are right, but it helps to have an idea of what you're going to hear too...

[quote name='6stringbassist' post='234955' date='Jul 8 2008, 01:57 PM']Do Bergantino, Epifani, Schroeder or Mark bass make 8x10's ?.[/quote] Berg do a 610 (nv610) which is often reported to be a slayer of all 810s (esp Ampeg). Its a surprisingly shallow little beasty. I havent heard one, just saw it at Mark's (bassdirect). Looks to be a far easier haul than an Ampeg thats for sure, and if its as good as reported (and the AE410 is better than I could imagine so why not the 610 too) it would be killer if thats the tone you need.

[quote name='El_JimBob' post='235374' date='Jul 8 2008, 11:23 PM']If you're using a Multicomp, Tubesim mode is a must for a bit of extra bite and 'girth' to the sound - also make sure you're not compressing the bass frequencies too much - this will actually make your tone thinner and weaker. If you haven't already, it's worth playing with the trimpots inside to get the most from this great pedal.... There, advert done [/quote] Absolutely,hence in my post the very low ratio, but very low threshold to make the compression happen all the time, alot. Very different sound to higher ratio, higher threshold, which tends to squeeze the bass more IME & IMO

My £0.02 Use a compressor with the following settings:- attack : medium - slow release : fast - medium ratio : between 2.5-1 and 4-1 Then start playing and turn the trheshold down, keep mucking around with the threshold, if you have adecent compressor then at a certain point turning the threshold down starts to really fatten up the tone. I mean a huge amount. Doesnt make it sound hugely compressed either (unless that is the inherent nature of the compressor), just gives you loads of 'booty' If you want more punch then shorten the release, more definition then length the attacka bit, and so on. If your compressor doesn't have the full set of controls then you aren't going to be necessarily going to be able to get this to work, obviously. It works beautifully on my BP8. Can get very very fat, even on a solo'ed bridge pup, which sounds fantastic.

A lot of it comes down to endorsements, for instance Jim Bergantino reportedly will not do the big endorsement deal thing, preferring to sell his products as a word of mouth thing. You may not have bought or seen a Bergantino but there is every chance that you already have heard one of Jim's cabs since he has designed for many of the major manufacturers. Some of these boutique manufacturers are smaller operations and would have a way to go to ramp up to the production runs required for truly mass market appeal. That takes time. Doesn't mean they are less good though. I recently got a Berg AE410, and it really does blow every other cab that I have played or heard away. Much better technology, better application of knowledge and better compnoent quality really does make a difference, and not just to the dent in your wallet. Most generic music shops only stock what will sell and sell quickly. Which means it must have a name in the general market place, since most people shopping are not going for top end boutique gear. My local shop is GAK, and they have a pretty decent bass section, they have been pushing the Markbass line hard for over 2 years, well before most of the people hear and on even on talkbass heard of them. Apart from the MB stuff though its all GK, Ampeg, Ashdown/Trace etc. No real knowledge of lightweight stuff other than MB, no desire really to get any Epifani, EA, Bergantino, Schroeder etc in , and I have talked to them about it! It just takes too much space for the amount of sales they think they will generate. And they are a huuuge shop. They have just got in some Laklands, but they mainly deal in Ibanez, Warwick & Fender, with some Yamahas & Corts etc, the usual stuff. They havent heard of people like Clover, Wood & Tronics, Fodera, F, Roscoe, Ritter, blah blah blah, and selling one expensive bass every year doesn't work out for them.

Here's mine - details in my sig Totally kick arse IMHO! [attachment=10538:my_rig_480_640.jpg]

Well I'm the very very happy owner of an SA450 which came with rack ears (got mine for £475, not from Mark: lets say I haggle hard ) Also got a Berg AE410 off Mark, and the pairing is absolutely outstanding. Haven't gigged it yet, but at a rehearsal in a live venue space it was just amazing. Cant say enough good stuff about it to be honest! Unless you fully intend to dent the wallet dont go near Mark's lair - really And if I won the lottery tomorrow I'd have the Wood & Tronics 4 string off him on the same day! And order a matching 5 too....

[quote name='Murph_Orpheus' post='166112' date='Mar 29 2008, 09:14 PM']Just wondering if anyone has any advice on the best compressor to buy for a rack system? I'm building up my first rack so I'm slowly learning about it all! I've been advised to get the Alesis 3630 Kompressor so far. Anyone know if its any good? Cheers. Dave.[/quote] Focusrite compounder is very clean, check this page out though.... [url="http://www.ev-b.com/compressors.html"]http://www.ev-b.com/compressors.html[/url]

[quote name='Harrythebassdawg' post='161971' date='Mar 22 2008, 08:58 PM']Is the SA450 the same as the little mark II, just with more versitile EQ and twice the size?[/quote] Also has 2 Neutriks on the back, and pre post switches, and line out level control. I think thats all the diffs The eq was enough for me to go that route on its own, I do like a semi-parametric eq me....

Got on efor my son for Xmas. Utterly blown away, nothing like the tone from practice amps way back when I was in college. Heartily recommended!

Oooooheeerr! I could sell the car - or the kids,

Has anyone heard the VINTAGE BASS VB1 envelope filter yet?

[quote name='bassbloke' post='97914' date='Dec 3 2007, 07:42 AM']Get a second 2.5XLand stick rubber feet on the side of each cab and stack them end up to give you a 4 vertical driver arrangement. These will have pleny of oomph, you'll get a better sense of air being shifted behind you and you'll have a much lighter and more portale rig tat still delivers. Trust me.[/quote] Could he not just turn his existing 2.5 on its end and have it higher up to achieve the same result??

Just to put a small damper on that. Just because the output electrically from the amp will be evenly distributed doesn't mean the output volume will be evenly distributed between two cabs. That is a function of the cab sensitivity measured in dB per watt at a specific distance from the cab. If cab A has a 103db/W @1m sensitivity and cab B has a 100db/W @ 1m sensitivity then A is twice as loud as B! If the distances are different then you into the inverse square law to try and even it up, which is more trouble than its worth IMO! Of course I fully expect somewhere with more knowledge to come in here at this point and show up any flaws in what I just said

Ran 2 4x10's for a decade, either side of the drummer, stereo amped - loverly for stereo modulation fx (I had a stereo tremolo patch that made the drummer look left->right->left->right->left->right->left->right - hysterical!) really broadens your sound, and punters _do_ notice. Down side is up high they lose some connectivity with the stage and hence some bottom end. Plus side is you can get them right against the backwall of the stage then get an amplitude 'bonus' of upto 3dB which can really help. Occasionally I ran 2 1x15's and 2 4x10's with the tops in stereo and the bottoms mono. Huge sound, I never noticed any comb filtering - but then my ears were bleeding and all my internal organs were fighting to be best pals with my sternum

[quote name='crumpet_tramp' post='91995' date='Nov 21 2007, 09:07 AM']Haha, seems like everyone likes to start off with! then moves away form them when they get better, it'l probably happen to me to! I am going recording around xmas time with the laney i'l show you what it can do![/quote] My first 'proper' rig was a Laney 300w (150w a side stereo/biampable) job (G300 I think) Kicked arse for 10 yrs before succumbing in a damp flat. Ran it thru 2 4x10s. Sounded fine to me at the time. Since got a MB SA450 which thru the same cabs gives a ton more punch, actually making me question any doubt around the cabs, they are very road worthy indeed. The head was OK in hindsight.... Looking to upgrade to Epi/Berg/Schro cabs as soon as I can afford it though.

[quote name='warwickhunt' post='91367' date='Nov 20 2007, 11:57 AM']I'm guilty of going with the general euphoria of MB stuff and earlier this year purchased (new) both the LMK and the SA450, I'd sold them within 6 months. I have to admit that they had a pleasing instantly likeable tone but for my gigging needs they tended to come up short. So I'd advise trying the MB (or any amp for that matter) in a live setting if at all possible.[/quote] Wow. How did they come up short? Not evangelising, I want toknow, I recently got an SA450 and havent gigged it yet (lots of studio & rehearsal use though, not enough practice unfortunately). Seems to be fantastic for me, but I've not used it in anger and would like a heads up as to what was wrong in our opinion on a gig. What cabs were you using? I would suggest an SA450 to the OP since I got mine for £470 new

I used a '94 Laney G300 stereo head for years. The preamp was pretty average, although it did have a 15 and graphic and biamp & bridge outs, so really not too bad, but the power amps were definitely HH (at least in their 'DNA') and they were fine. Having said that it did die after being stored in a very damp flat for a while, but so could anything else. Replaced it with an MB SA450 recently and to be fair that blows it away.