Jakester

Why is so much about playing music in public so a pain in the posterior?

A few months back, not able to find the sort of night I wanted to play at, I decided to set it up myself. I found a venue which was reopening, and it just so happened my ‘night’ was the sort of thing they wanted to put on, so I booked a few evenings in and set about promoting it, and finding some musicians. 
 

I managed to get two (supposedly) likeminded fellows together, and we had a couple of rehearsals, and the first night was decently successful - hire costs for that evening covered, a good dent in the rest of the costs.

The second one wasn’t as good - COVID meant only one rehearsal, so the focus we had on new or original music was necessarily put on the back burner in favour of some standards, and numbers were wildly down. Costs weren’t covered, so I’m a bit out of pocket. Oh, well, on to the next. 
 

Despite the date being in the diary for more than three months, and the knowledge of the last session fresh in our collective minds - but one of the other guys wouldn’t be pinned down, meaning even greater reliance on standards even if we had one rehearsal. As it turned out, he bailed on that, meaning we had to perform without any practice beforehand at all. Despite a renewed push on promotion, we had barely double digits turn up, so I was out of pocket again.

I had been up front with the guys that if we didn’t break even I couldn’t keep subsidising it, so after three sessions I decided to knock it on  the head, but with a view to us all playing together still, doing some recording of original music and trying to get gigs the old fashioned way.

Anyway, I got contacted by someone who attended who said he was looking to put something similar on himself, so I dropped the chaps a line to see if they might be interested - only to get a response from the guy that couldn’t make rehearsals that he was not interested in just doing standards!

I mean - the only reason we fell back on standards was because he couldn’t make any rehearsals - the plan from the outset was to perhaps do some weirder covers and original music, but because we didn’t have any time together that simply didn’t work.

Just to cap it off, this evening I’ve had a couple of angry (and abusive) emails from people who clearly didn’t listen to the announcement at the last session saying we weren’t going ahead in August - there’s nothing online or on the venue’s website to say it was on, so not sure where that has come from! 
 

It’s been a bloody thankless task - I brought the backline, monitors, mics, did the sound at the gig, and basically ended up paying for other people to have a good time, and it has reminded me why I very much like being in other people’s bands, rather than trying to run my own.

It was supposed to be fun but, other than the short time on stage, actually ended up as anything but.

String tension/response? Assuming you mean tuning the 'E' down to C, 'A' down to G etc, isn't the string response across the strings going to be weird? A floopy C and possibly G, normal D, and higher tension A?

Starting with the 'wrong' tuning - she'll presumably have to adjust at some point, so why not early on?

GLWTS, but I think you may struggle to sell at that price. I think they're only slightly more brand-new. 

On 28/07/2022 at 12:12, AJ567 said:

NB you can DIY the second midi hosting adapter if you are handy with a soldering iron. This would save you maybe £50 off the Disaster area midi ghost. I posted on the DIY thread about this some time ago. 

You don’t even need to DIY it. 
 

I bought one of these to us with my C4 and a Disaster area Micro and it works fine:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00DM6EMQ2/ref=pe_27063361_487055811_TE_3p_dp_1

I use Piascore.

Let’s you store a catalogue of parts and organise into set lists. You can mark up as needed and use a Bluetooth page turner too. 

6 minutes ago, lownote said:

Wonder if someone has a steer for me on how much more oomphy is an RM800 head than say a MB LM3? Is it 60% more noisy, or one of these things where the difference in real life is tiny?

In my limited experience, using my CMD121P at 300w is fine - it's loud, but it needs to be turned up and if driven hard can get a little unruly. 

Using the extension cab to get the 'full' 500w means it can go as loud without being turned up as much, and getting unruly. All things being equal, it would probably go louder than I would want/need before I experienced any adverse effects through the speakers. 

It's not so much it's oomphy, rather that it allows you to go that bit louder, more easily. However, if you were using an 800w amp through the same cab as you used the 300w amp, you might find it gets louder quicker but could also be way too much for the cab, resulting in damage.

13 hours ago, AndyBass said:

There’s a thread, maybe a couple, going back on here where people have suggested using foam gardeners kneeling pads as f hole blockers.

 

Thats what I still use - you get a crayon and some paper, do a rubbing of your f hole shape, cut it out, lay it on the foam pad and cut round it with a craft knife. Job done.

Thanks - I'll have a look and see if I can give that a go then!

12 hours ago, TheRev said:

I have an Fdeck HPF permanently mounted on the tailpiece, the pickup is always plugged into the input, so the HPF output just replaces the pickup output - setup is no more complex than plugging in one lead.

Thanks - still "moar geer" with attendant cost too though. Worth knowing it's possible though - how'd you attach to the tailpiece? Velcro?

7 hours ago, Happy Jack said:

 

The only person who can't hear the vocals (usually) is the drummer. Guitar(s) and Bass stand up front, with their heads close enough to the PA tops that hearing the vocals is no problem at all.

 

I would respectfully disagree with this. The PA cabs I/we have used over the years have meant we can’t hear the vocals; perhaps we set up differently to everyone else but with guitars and bass amps used as backline, even if everyone is circumspect about stage volume, it drowns out the vocal bleed from the PA.

IME at least one stage monitor is essential if you’re not using IEMs. Doesn’t have to be a massive wedge; I successfully used one of those ‘monitor on a pole’ jobbies by Mackie and Behringer for years. We currently use smaller versions of our tops (DXR10s) as monitors - also good for redundancy if one of the tops goes pop. 
 

Stagepas etc with kick drum probably won't be powerful enough. It would probably be fine just with vocals though. 

I use the Yamaha DXR12s as tops in our rock band and at a push they could probably cope with a kick - the 15's definitely could though. Ideally use a separate sub if you're putting drums through. 

11 hours ago, Old Horse Murphy said:

Are you using a notch filter or anything Jake?
 

I had this ages ago and an uninflated beach ball placed inside the f- hole with the nozzle outside.m so it can be blown up was recommended to me. It did actually help 

 I have a three-band preamp with adjustable mids, but no more than that. Lol at the beachball though I get the idea behind it.

Same principle as this I guess: 

https://gollihurmusic.com/accessories-for-upright-bass/fun-bass-stuff/bass-bomb-feedback-fighting-resonance-reducer/

5 hours ago, Mottlefeeder said:

Not quite on topic, but may help - I play a 5-string ABG and I find that an HPF gives me better control of feedback than the built-in notch filter.

David

2 hours ago, Clarky said:

An F-deck pedal or clone like this Rafferty will make a big difference https://reverb.com/item/13880879-rafferty-hpf-pre-2-bass-preamp-adjustable-high-pass-filter-phase-switch-custom-color

Hmm, I was hoping to avoid having to go down the ‘extra pedal’ route - I usually play both electric and DB in the same gig (sometimes even in the same song!) and I’ve been using a dual-input Providence preamp (which is what allowed me to cut the bass on the DB at the gig) into a pedalboard for effects etc (on the electric only!)
 

I guess I could run a HPF before it goes into the preamp but that would make the setup that extra bit more complex. 

Does anyone know of any alternative products to F-its?

I played a gig last week and basically had to cut all the low and mid-low end from the DB sound to prevent feedback on stage, meaning I struggled to be heard out front. The bass wasn't DI'd (which was probably an issue on its own, but owing to the nature of the gigs I play probably unavoidable in the short term). 

I'd really like some f-hole covers like the F-its - https://www.f-itsfeedbackblockers.co.uk/ 

but a notice on his website says that he's not making products for the foreseeable, and there's been no response to the message I sent. 

I suppose I could mess around with foam myself, but does anyone know of a similar product before I start? 

That looks great. 
 

I wonder if it would work for PA speakers?

Similar experience to OP - bought something off them as showing ‘in stock’.
 

However, their ‘in stock’ means ‘we may be able to get it from our supplier’, not (as one would expect) ‘we have physical possession of said item’. 

They claimed not to see the difference when I called to chase - disingenuous and generally unimpressive, though in fairness after I had chased, it did turn up when they said it would (a while later than expected, however). 
 

I wouldn’t use them again. 

PM'd

16 minutes ago, jazzyvee said:

I'm a brummie through and through and a lover of jazz but I am embarrassed by the Birmingham Jazz festival it's a joke compared to any other jazz festival I have been to around the UK. 

Every year that festival is on i'm put off because most of the bands are the trad jazz and little of the modern jazz and rarely any kind of  fusion or jazz funk.  Anything that has Tom Hill, Art Themen or Chris Bowden playing in is worth going to see. Both are extremely good players.  One year when it covered Solihull, i went there for and there was not a single band playing jazz music at all. There was a bands playing country, ska and other non jazz genres.

 

There are a lot of superb jazz musicians and younger jazz musicians with new slants on the genre in and around Birmingham but they don't seem to fit with the theme of the Birmingham "Trad" Jazz festival.  If i'm honest i think it needs to be scrapped until it can provide a more diverse range of music.

 

Let me have a look at the lineup for this year and see if i can be pleasantly surprised. 🥱

Yep, I think a better shout would be the Mostly (Moseley) Jazz & Soul festival, which at least has some decent artists appearing!

I think the problem with the Brum 'scene' is that it's stitched up by a few people who are very protective and as you say, lean far more towards the 'trad' end of things. I remember a run-in with one of them when I was trying to get gigs, and his exact words were "why should I give you a gig when I've never seen you at one of my gigs?" (meaning Birmingham Jazz gigs, which was of course patently untrue!). Very much gatekeeping unless you paid the appropriate amount of fealty. 

Hmm, of the lineup I think I recognise Chris Bowden (sax) and Art Themen (also sax), and 'Shanghai Hustle' has Tom Clarke-Hill playing, who's a great double-bassist (and was once the voice of Tony the Tiger!) but other than that, no idea, sorry. 

There was a core of very good musicians on the Brum jazz scene back when I lived up there like Percy Pursglove, so hopefully that's still the case. 

Perhaps get along to a couple of gigs and see what's what?

I was playing DB at the weekend over midday, and the tuning was ALL over the place, even with it left as far as possible in the shade. 

Someone suggested leaving it in their car (!) until I pointed out it would probably top 50deg in there and the glue would probably melt, leaving me with a flatpack double bass!

23 minutes ago, lewiswhitebass said:

This +1 

 

PMT have been very nice about it and called me yesterday. I'm not sure about Lemon Law to be honest.

 

Sometimes things just break when they are being gigged hard regularly.

Well, there's a requirement that goods are supposed to be reasonably fit for purpose, and I would expect that would include being gigged for a bass amp! 

If the issue manifested within six months of purchase, then the onus is on the retailer to prove it was fit for purpose, not for you to prove it wasn't. After that, you have to prove that the amp was not.

Note also that if PMT offers to repair, then they must do so within a reasonable period of time, and bear all of the associated costs (including postage). 

I picked one up a couple of months ago and agree - it’s lovely! I somewhat shamefully haven’t done a NBD yet…

5 hours ago, Phil Starr said:

The trouble is that you need to have confidence in it, do you have a backup plan for the gig?

This was my issue. I couldn't have any confidence in it, and with it dropping out completely at a couple of gigs, I ended up getting the replacement working head instead. I also bought a 'micro' head from a different manufacturer as a portable backup too. 

8 minutes ago, DaytonaRik said:

 

Whilst possible, there would be limited benefit (other that retaining the acoustic qualities if needed later) in this as there is no reliance on the tones produced by a high-end shell pack. 

Yep, I know - just saying it would be a dream!

On 08/07/2022 at 21:18, DaytonaRik said:

 

There are at least 2 companies in the UK doing this @Doctor J - Jobeky and Diamond Drums.  There are also Dig Drums in Poland as well as Drum Tec in Germany, plus these and other companies offer internal triggers to convert acoustic kits into e-Kits.   I spent an age looking for a 5 x rack tom kit to convert and gave up so ordered my Jobeky kit and a few days a later a 5 x rack tom Sonor 3003 set popped up - typical!  Ah well - I'm not unhappy or disappointed with my Jobeky kit though

I’d love to have Jobeky install triggers into something really high end, like a USA Gretsch, and run that into a TD50 and presto - no more stage volume issues!

Zak Starkey has been using a DW set up as a trigger kit with the Who:

https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=pfbid0ByZfrkbwmuyQAea2ea3WGNomQrcmCVRA9wxxfm9XWEqqacMyH8RAfTGBxcJ1Zopal&id=346120672546&__tn__=%2CO*F

4 hours ago, mybass said:

Did they say why they were replacing the pots if there was no apparent fault, without informing you first?

Nope, they said they couldn’t replicate the fault but it could have been the pots causing intermittent volume drops, so suggested replacement,

to which I agreed. 

4 hours ago, Silvia Bluejay said:

Very cool. 👍

Pity the noticeable difference in quality between the fixed camera at the front and the far better 360 camera. We have had that problem too. We used to use three Zooms and a DSLR (at the front), but decided to ditch the DSLR because its far better quality output in most settings, especially in low light, made our edited videos look inconsistent. (The Zooms are nice but not pro quality, so their output in low light is grainy.)

Yep - sadly owing to VERY truncated setup time (“band” singing to backing tracks - 2 hrs setup time; actual band ended up with 10mins!) we didn’t get to put the proper camera out, that’s actually phone footage from someone with very steady arms!

17 hours ago, EBS_freak said:

I concur.

 

Camera angles make it more interesting... however, without decent sound, there's really no point. 

We recently got hold of a 360 camera to try out and it’s a really good innovation in the sense that it allows really varied shots. Not sure we got the best out of it but if you’re regularly videoing gigs could be worth it: 

I hired it via Fat Llama for £15 for a day.