Silent Fly

I would add a compressor, an octaver and an EQ if your amp doesn't already have one.

[quote]"Powered by a single 9-volt battery, MXR's 18-volt Constant Headroom Technology(tm) (CHT) provides studio-performance headroom and superior tracking."[/quote] It is interesting to see how MXR/Dunlop changed their opinion about voltage pumps. Cool pedal BTW.

[quote name='NJE' post='426178' date='Mar 5 2009, 02:12 PM'][...] 1. EBS Microbass II - seems really nice and i like the headphone amp part 2. Sadowsky DI - seems basic for the money and tehreis no mid control 3. DHA VT1 EQ? - nice looking thing but seems to be a distrotion type pedal, will it give me clean-ish punch and flexibility/ 4. Aguilar ToneHammer - again looks nice with a full EQ but there seems to be a focus on it giving that dirty valve tone, is it clean too? 5. MXR Bass EQ - Again! EQ but has this valve type drive thing 6. SansAmp Bass Driver - much talked about and hard to miss even for someone who doesnt pay much attention, any good? 7. Aphex bass Xciter - No EQ but makes an amazing difference if their website is to be believed. [...][/quote] I tried or owned all of them apart from the DHA and the ToneHammer and in my opinion they are all very different devices. Each one of them has its own personality. For instance the the Sadowsky DI, the Tech21 Bass Driver and the Aphex Xciter couldn’t be more different. These are my comments about the devices you mentioned. [b]1. EBS Microbass II[/b] It is a very nice compact unit. A lot of flexibility and nice sounds. I would have liked a less function-rich device at a more affordable price. [b]2. Sadowsky DI[/b] If you look for the Sadowsky sound, it is the way to go. Unfortunately, the DI version of the Sadowsky preamp has an input impedance of 330k ohm. I would have liked an impedance of at least 1M ohm. I had a quick chat with Roger Sadowsky a few years ago and he told me that the reason why his preamplifiers don’t have mid controls is that at the time he didn’t manage to find a preamplifier with mid control that sound as good as a 2-band preamp. Moreover, he said that if necessary mids can be controlled on the amp. I found difficult disagree. It has very nice sounds but the lack of treble cut is something I don’t like. [b]3. DHA VT1 EQ[/b] I never tried it but I believe it is a pedal that gives a warm tube sound (with a little bit of saturation if necessary) to any combination of bass-pre-amp. I read only positive things about DHA products. You may want to contact DHA to find out more about this product. [b]4. Aguilar ToneHammer[/b] I never tried it but I understand that it can go as clean as you want. [b]5. MXR Bass EQ[/b] I am not aware of the existence of the MXR Bass EQ. Are you referring to the Bass DI? The Bass DI is a very nice unit. Good sounds but the distorted channel is not for me. I am sure a lot of bassists disagree but the bzzzz on the distortion is something I can live without. [b]6. SansAmp Bass Driver[/b] It has its own personality that a lot of people like. It cuts parts of the mids even in flat position. If you need a more active sound with some saturation it might be your ticket. I prefer the more linear Tech21 ParaDriver. [b]7. Aphex bass Xciter[/b] Great pedal. It is always “on” my pedal board. It is a sound processor and it operates on the frequency spectrum and the dynamic range at the same time. If you need saturation, look somewhere else. It is as clean as it gets – which is good. I hope the above helps.

Try to run "effect chain order" on Google. The [url="http://www.ratcliffe.co.za/articles/effectchain.shtml"]first link[/url] looks quite interesting.

[quote name='joegarcia' post='419756' date='Feb 26 2009, 12:38 AM']So I'm trying to use an old Laney PA valve amp for guitar/bass but it sounds quite weak because the inputs aren't for instruments and are the wrong impedance I believe. I there a passive unit I can use to boost the level and change impedance into the amp? I've tried using an overdrive to boost the input but it still doesn't sound right.[/quote] A recommend you a good DI box - It should do the trick.

It depends on the amp. For some amps the switch just changes the gain of the input stage. In this case it doesn't make a huge difference which position is used. In other amps it bypasses a boost stage. In this case it is slightly better going with the "active" setting as the signal goes through fewer stages. As a general rule I would use the switch position that requires the less extreme position of the gain knob. If it makes no difference I would go with the "active" position as the output of a pedal as an impedance close to an active bass. I hope the above helps.

Ok - I managed to design a solution. It should work. There are two important things to notice: 1. The mixing circuit is active. If you can live with the leak beetween A and B you can substitute the two buffers (that in theory should have a small gain) with two wires. 2. If you don't need leds to indicate the positions you can build it with 3PDT (aka true-bypass) switches. If you want leds, you need 4PDT switches. They are not cheap but they do the trick. 3. The tuner out is always active. As you can see it is wired to the Amp Out before the mute switch. I hope it is acceptable. [attachment=21030:ab_amp_t...r_switch.gif] I hope this helps. If you are in trouble with the building or you need someone that built it for you drop me a PM. Silent Fly

[quote name='bassplayer88' post='418672' date='Feb 24 2009, 07:38 PM'][...] Hope you can advise [/quote] I am working on it. I'll keep you posted. Silent Fly

I thought to some possible solutions but when In.A and In.B are mixed to be sent to the "out amp" you will end up with some signal leak between In.A and In.B. In other words, if "both" is activated, part of In.A will go to Out.B and vice versa. I can’t see a solution to this unless you use an active circuit. Silent Fly

Sorry bassplayer88 but I can't understand exactly what the "Both" footswith should do: [quote][b]Both[/b] - If both is selected the signals output from their respective outputs separately but from the Amp OUT combined.[/quote] Input A ---> Out A Input B ---> Out B Input A+InputB ---> Amp Out Is it this what you had in mind? What do would you like to send to the Tuner when the "Tuner" footswitch is activated? In.A + In.B?

You may want read the [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Direct_Input"]Wikipedia[/url] entry. It explains quite well what a DI box is and what it does.

[quote name='Eight' post='412703' date='Feb 18 2009, 08:32 AM']Thanks Fly, that's really helped. I've always been more of a software and midi guy so there are some big holes in my knowledge of hardware/amplifiers etc. Now there's one less. [...][/quote] You are welcome Eight - if you need more details or info please feel free to send me a PM. SF

[quote name='Eight' post='412351' date='Feb 17 2009, 07:23 PM']Ah ok. So thats line level output/input on the effects loop? With instrument level on the main amp input. Handy to know, cheers. (Assuming I've understood )[/quote] To clarify: The signal goes into the amp at "instrument level" (around 500mV). The preamplification increases the voltage to "line level" (aka 4dBu: 1.23V). The signal between the preamplifier and the power amp is made available through the send/receive connection. Because the signal is after the preamplifier (and before the power amp) it is at line level. After the power amp the signal is at much higher level. The voltage is determined by the power delivered by the amplifier and the impedance of the cab. The voltage can be calculated with: V = SQRT(P * R). Where V is the voltage, SQRT is the square root, P is the power delivered, R is the impedance of the speaker. E.g. to deliver 300W in an 8 ohm cab, the power amp generates around 50V.

[quote name='Eight' post='412158' date='Feb 17 2009, 04:32 PM']Is the effects loop amplified/eq'd whatever after it returns?[...][/quote] It is: [codebox]input -> [preamplifier/EQ->---+ +-->power amp] -> cab | | (send) (return) | | V ^[/codebox] Where everything in square brackets [] is the amplifier.

[quote name='warwickhunt' post='412046' date='Feb 17 2009, 03:05 PM']With some amps you don't get the choice! By that I mean that my Thunderfunk can not accept the signal chain that goes; bass > pedals > amp input. The pedals are all stomp pedals (Boss Octaver > Boss Chorus > EHM Small Stone > EHM Bass Balls) that you would 'expect' to be able to run in the front of the amp but when you try you get a horrendous whistle (almost like high pitched feedback but I'm no effects guru/techy so no idea if that is what it is). The whole lot sit in the effects loop with no issue![/quote] If the chain [i]bass > pedals > amp input[/i] doesn't work there has to be something wrong somewhere. Have you tried connect the pedals in a different order? The high pitch sound may be due to some pedal going in oscillation. I could be due to long cables between pedalboard and amp. I would try with the Boss Chorus last. It is buffered and with a very stable output stage.

[quote name='Al Heeley' post='411980' date='Feb 17 2009, 02:06 PM']Do the stomp box manufacturers actually offer recommendations on the best use of their different pedals? ie: before pre-amp or in the effects loop?[/quote] Stomp boxes are usually designed to operate at instrument level. I am sure there are exceptions and I guess if this is the case the manufacturer would put a note in the specs. There are multi-fx units that can operate at both levels. AFAIK, the [url="http://www.bosscorp.co.jp/products/en/GT-Pro/specs.html"]Boss GT-Pro[/url], the line6 X3 live and X3 Pro can work at instrument and line level. You can always try and see. It shouldn’t damage the pedal but I suggest you be extra-careful. The return jack socket is connected directly to the power stage of the amp [i]without attenuation[/i]. If something goes wrong, the entire power of the amp is delivered to the speaker regardless of the position of the master knob.

[quote name='Al Heeley' post='411928' date='Feb 17 2009, 12:53 PM']Wondered what the pros and cons were of using the amps send and return loop for effects instead of going straight into the pre-amp input? Which is best practice and why? […] Does best practice vary depending on the pedal type?[/quote] These are an interesting question but I don’t see it as a pros/cons issue. In my opinion it is more about what is advisable for any given device. The preamplifier input is an instrument-level, high impedance input. The send/return loop is a line-level, low impedance connection. If the processor was designed to run at instrument level is advisable connect it between instrument and preamplifier. If the processor was designed for operating at line level, it should be connected in the send/return loop. There are also cases where the position of the connection makes a difference in the sound processing itself. Compressors are a good example. If a compressor is connected between instrument and preamplifier, the compression takes place pre-eq. If it is in the send/return loop, the signal is compressed post-eq. Moreover, if the compressor is in the send/return loop, because the volume control (aka master) is usually pre send/return, the compressors starts to kick in depending on the position of the master knob. [quote name='Al Heeley' post='411928' date='Feb 17 2009, 12:53 PM']I guess if you are processing the raw signal from a bass before the pre-amp, then you might lose some of the definition of the signal, or the characteristics of the instrument?[/quote] Not necessarily. If the preamplifier and the sound processor are good quality devices, it shouldn’t make any difference. Equally, if the processor/pedal has an input stage that works better (e.g. it has the correct impedance for the pickup in use) it might be advisable connect it before the amplifier. [quote name='Al Heeley' post='411928' date='Feb 17 2009, 12:53 PM']I would view the signal from the pre-amp as being more robust but being coloured in some way from the pre-amp stage before entering the effect.[/quote] In terms of sound, you are probably right. Usually (but not always) the preamplifier adds its own personality to the signal. From the electric point of view, the signal in the send/return loop is more “robust” because is at higher voltage level and it is generated by a lower impedance source. Silent Fly

Thanks for the link Edd. Interesting and unusual device... SF

I managed to find a way to make the input not floating with a DPDT switch. I hope it helps. [attachment=20290:mute_sw2.gif]

This is how I would do it. [attachment=20204:mute_sw.gif] The first version uses a DPDT but it leaves the output of the previous pedal in the chain floating (which is not a problem for the majority of pedals). The second version uses a 3PDT switch. It puts a load on the last pedal of the chain so it is less likely to click/bump when the switch is pressed. I hope it helps.

[quote name='cheddatom' post='407308' date='Feb 12 2009, 09:13 AM']I don't know about you guys but 1.5 amps is just not enough for me!![/quote] 1.5 is not enough? What's you main pedal... a microwave oven?

[quote name='OldGit' post='404918' date='Feb 9 2009, 11:26 PM']This will split the signal and give you gain controls for £17 [...][/quote] ...and other interesting side effects like noise, unreliability and unpredictable distortion. [quote name='OldGit' post='404918' date='Feb 9 2009, 11:26 PM'][...] However for £17 it's a cheap way to test the concept ........[/quote] True. (I wouldn’t use it a permanent solution though)

[quote name='Al Heeley' post='404908' date='Feb 9 2009, 11:12 PM']What's a High Z signal?[/quote] A signal in itself is not High-Z (or Low-Z). Z stands for impedance. It is a number that represents how hard it is for electricity to flow in a conductor/device at a given frequency. In audio electronics, an [b]input[/b] is High-Z (high impedance) if the impedance is high enough to not change the characteristics of the signal sent from the source. For bass guitars it is usually any impedance above 500k ohm. [b]Output[/b] impedance can be seen as the number that gives us how good is a device to keep the output level constant with different loads. Low output impedance means that the output voltage does not change significantly changing the device that receives the signal. As a rule of thumb, it is better if basses and guitars see high impedance devices. Equally, it is better if audio devices have low output impedance. Moreover, basses can have a high output impedance (passive basses) or low output impedance (active basses). You can find more information [url="http://www.tape.com/resource/impedance.html"]here[/url].

[quote name='andrewrx7' post='404490' date='Feb 9 2009, 04:56 PM']Thinking about it, splitting a signal is what the heads do anyway, so there isn't a need for a seperate splitter? Don't you achieve the same thing by taking a line from one of the heads? For example, an extract from the TE head manual - says the effects send can be used as a pre-master volume line out and the signal throught the pre-amp is only broken when a jack is inserted back into the return plug. So basically, you can take a signal from the head with no need for a dedicated splitter. It's a learning curve, isn't it! You don't know until you start to experiment! [/quote] If I understand correctly, you are thinking of getting the signal from the SEND of the first head and connect it to the RECEIVE of the second head... Providing the amp doesn't cut the connection to the power stage when the jack is inserted in the SEND, it should work. You lose the tone and volume controls on the second head but it might be an advantage. You control everything from the first head. Electrically speaking, it should be like a Y-cable used after the preamp. If you don’t have other connections between head 1 and head 2, the risk of ground loops should be minimal but I agree with what coasterbass says: until you try you can’t be sure. One word of advice: be careful. The return jack is a direct connection to the power stage of the head. In other words there are no attenuations: all the power of the head is directly amplified regardless of the volume settings on the head.

[quote name='andrewrx7' post='403502' date='Feb 8 2009, 04:31 PM']Was actually looking at this, this morning! I've got a Danelectro Cool Cat Chorus which has a stereo out. Was also wondering about another pedal (Bad Monkey) which has two outs, labelled amp and mixer, if I remember correctly. I was going to try them at rehearsal this week.[/quote] The BM has an amp out (which is straight from the effects processing) and a mix output that filters the amp out signal through an amp simulator (in practice a steep low pass filter). The outputs are not the same but it you don't mind the treble cut on the mix out, it might be what you look for. Silent Fly