mcnach

21 hours ago, EBS_freak said:

Having been through this route with somebody else, I'd totally recommend the Zoom H8 - https://www.studiospares.com/zoom-h8-handy-recorder-378770.htm

 

Gives you the option for am ambient sound where you are standing (through it's own mics). And you can also take a feed from any desk that may be available... but also allow you to put your own mics out on key instruments, or take splits from mics already in place and control the levels all through the mixing facility on the zoom. When you price up a mixer (that can take 8 XLRs) and an pair of ambient mics, you're already quids in on the Zoom... and thats before you add in the recording option.

whoa, that's a beast!

(in a very good way)

I've had the little purple envelope filter for a few years and it's pretty good on both bass and guitar

I used one for a while. As a stage monitor it was fantastic, but I found I needed a second cab for small bar gigs with no PA (6-7 piece with horns). For what you describe you'll probably be ok.

I'd consider the 15" CMD version or the Jeff Berlin combo if the size were still suitable. They're only a big bigger but the output of those is remarkable. The Jeff Berlin model in particular sounds much bigger than its size would suggest.

17 hours ago, incommunicado said:

Anyone who eventually got both the MB-4 and the PB-20 to share an opinion? 

Not the MB-4, but I got an MB-5 and the PB-20. Anything in particular you're wondering?

16 hours ago, lozkerr said:

Damn, I should have thought of that. I have a Zoom H2 that I use for recording our rehearsals and the sound quality's really good. I've ordered a pair of el-cheapo condenser microphones to give me the option of pointing one at the singists and the other at a wedge monitor. I'll have to do some experimenting to see what works best. At least I don't have to worry about hearing our boilermaker drummer! He can wake the dead when he gets carried away. 

 

I have a Behringer P2 belt pack that doesn't look to have as many features as your P1 and I did think of turning the whole thing down when the volume got unbearable but I'd have had to stop playing to do a reach-around under my jacket (stop sniggering in the cheap seats) to get to the volume control. Worse, I'd have lost everything else, so I soldiered on, but I'm paying the price for that now.

 

The solution I'm planning sounds very similar to yours - personal mixer taking inputs from bass, vocal mic, an on-stage sound source or two plus a feed from the main desk. Bass and vocal mic up on the splitter mixer so I can hear myself properly, sound stage down a tad and the ability to instantly kill the feed from the main desk without losing anything else if things go tits-up. With the splitter mixer on top of my amp, I can hit the mute button in an instant.

 

Hopefully the gear will arrive on Monday. I'll report back on how well it works.

 

On a different note, your location says you're now in Edinburgh. Is this a permanent thing?

It occurred to me looooooong after I had needed a solution like that. It seems obvious once you think of it, but it took a while for it to be obvious to me  

I had my H2 at work as a colleague was thinking of getting a small recorder, and I had my headphones plugged in, set it to record mode... and I could hear people talking down the corridor very clearly (it can be a nice spying device 😛 ) and a few weeks later I finally made the connection to using it onstage. First I took it to practice and the clarity was better than using my usual ACS earplugs even if my buds were not great at isolating. I bought a bunch of tips on eBay, different materials and sizes, and found a comply tip that felt comfortable and provided very good isolation. I think this is very important: unless you have a good seal you will not get very good results. In fact, you might be tempted to turn up the volume so that you can hear better... which is what I was trying to avoid in the first place!

Your solution sounds good, you can keep adding small levels of sophistication  The 2 mic idea is cool. I bought a pair of Behringer C2 (little condenser mics, they can be a bit noisy compared to proper good quality studio mics, but for this purpose they'd work well... I must try that, thank you for the tip!)

Yes, I am in Edinburgh (Little France way), been here since November 1999. It was supposed to be only 3 years... but this city grabs you and doesn't let you go. The weather reeks but the people are too nice and it's too much fun here   

edit: I have also considered using a compressor/limiter to give me a little extra peace of mind, but I didn't research this part well. Just another thing to consider.

16 hours ago, stewblack said:

Looks great @mcnach

Funnily enough, I'm getting the blue JJ with the white guard. Even though I believe tort is the absolute gold standard colour for a pickguard, it looks very wrong with the blue.

Ah, nice!!! As much as I am also not a fan of pearloid, the blue JJ looks very good. Tort looks fine to me on the sunburst, and the white even... but I agree, on the blue it just looks odd. 

22 hours ago, lozkerr said:

Thanks, folks. My ears are still ringing from a week ago, so I've decided to give the personal system a try. The IEM feed from the main desk can go into the splitter mixer so I can turn it down / off if need be.

 

Hopefully the gear will be here before next Thursday's rehearsal, so I can try it out then.

One thing that I used sometimes and worked surprisingly well (although obviously it won't compete in sound quality with a proper system) was a Zoom H2 recorder onstage plus a minimixer and the Behringer P1 above. I used the H2 in record mode without pressing record: that allowed me to use the H2 as a microphone (and it sounds quite good!) to get the 'stage sound' through it into the mini mixer set on my amp. Then I had a feed from my bass (pedalboard) into the mixer as well, and the output of the mixer into my P1. With a pair of good fitting earbuds that provided sufficient isolation, I get to control the overall volume and balance the stage sound with my bass from teh pedalboard. It's not very sophisticated but it sounded quite decent and while not very loud in my ears I still got the 'thump' from the drums and my amp onstage, so it was quite fun.

It's a relatively cheap option independent of anybody else or any additional equipment, so you can use it anywhere.

I believe @Dood used a similar approach in the past, maybe he has additional comments on this as I think he used it more than I have.

On 05/05/2022 at 21:19, Downunderwonder said:

Wow. Do what you have to do. I'd have stopped the show and read the riot act on that.

Yup.

It will not look cool, but I frankly would not give a flying flip if they're blasting my ears.

On 05/05/2022 at 19:15, lozkerr said:

...tha does it thissen, as they say in Yorkshire. My ears are still ringing from our last gig six days ago.

 

The gig was on a college campus and we had a keen student stage crew, who were happy to provide me with an IEM feed. All seemed well at soundcheck, but as the gig progressed the monitor mix got increasingly louder and it sounded like my mic was being turned up and down, possibly due to bleed-through from my backline. On top of that, our drummer, who is a human metronome - no, he really is good - started hammering away at his kit like a boilermaker on piece work. On a fully mic'd up drumkit, which I was standing right beside. I could hardly hear my bass and ended up digging in hard, which inevitably resulted in a lot of string clatter, and also found myself singing BVs far too loud and I've strained my voice as a result.

 

I am not happy about this - in fact I'm severely p'd off.

 

I've been wondering what to do about it, as I'm feeling apprehensive about putting my hearing in the hands of sound engineers whose experience might not be that extensive. Something similar happened on our previous two gigs and I'm concerned that tinnitus might be just around the corner if I carry on like this.

 

Custom moulded IEM earplugs will deffo be an improvement, but I'm wondering whether it would be safer to set up my own monitoring system that won't put me at risk of being deafened. I was thinking of something like a Behringer MX882 splitter mixer, with bass and vocal mic outputs going through that and out to the main desk, and a couple of ambient mics to pick up the stage sound. Mix those to taste with the bass and vocal mic and put the combined output through my IEMs.

 

What are people's thoughts? Am I overthinking this?

 

Many thanks,

Laura

No, I don't think you're overthinking it, your ears (your health) is far more important than any gig.

I would need to be able to control at least the overall volume going into my ears. Getting your own mix would be ideal, but at the very least I'd want control over the volume in my in-ears. And make sure the buds you use seal properly and isolate you as much as possible. Customs are a good way to achieve that, but until you get those I'd try a range of tips to identify a set that works for you. The 'comply' memory foam ones tend to be pretty decent, just get the correct size for your ear canal.

I've got one of these Behringer P1 units, they're pretty cheap. You can put whatever mix you get given through it and control the volume yourself. At the very least use something like that.

https://www.behringer.com/product.html?modelCode=P0AZM

Beast. I liked the JJ, but I like the JP even better. Nicer pickups and the passive electronics are simple but they do just what I need it to do.

Filed the nut slots a tiny bit as they were a bit too tall to allow a nice even lowish action, adjusted the truss rod (nice and smooth, and that little rod is handy) and saddles a tiny bit... and away you go. Not exactly a classic Precision sound (pickup is 2cm closer to the neck than standard), but it would still be recognised as Precisionesque for sure. Nice growl to it. It's also a pretty light bass for 5 strings (8.5 lbs) as I mentoned earlier. It just needs some shielding which is absent in any meaningful way. What I thought was conductive paint is just some kind of primer I guess, not conductive. But that's easy enough to fix.

That pickguard needs to go 'though. I don't get why it's so popular  I'll get a single ply black instead.

This is not going to be a great demo, exactly, but it's the only recording I've got so far. 

This is the JJ, with a foam mute. It's still very much a work in progress using a click track, ignore the horns, they're little more than placeholders right now. It'll be done better. The bassline is extremely simple with just this one sound which is dark and devoid of a lot of nuance, so not much of a demo  , so more of a "it looks like a £180 bass can be ok straight out the box". Hopefully I'll get better examples in the near future.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/y0vg9ghf0pitrf7/220506 - Summer wind so far.mp3?dl=0

MP3

11 hours ago, crazycloud said:

Thank you for that. Dimension wise I don't think they match the ones in my parts box but not at home ATM to confirm. However, that large neck rout looks like with a little tweaking with the router an EMG45 would fit. Same with the bridge, just more sawdust. I have a few of those in the parts box anyway. Perhaps an option for me and needing it to look like a J is not an issue.

 

I've had another 5 turn up I'm interested in and have been wanting for a while, so if I get that, this one would be off the table. Much more $ though.

I was looking at the Nordstrand Big Split 5 (EMG40 size) which look like a nice option too. Some route expansion needed, but with a couple of sharp chisels and taking it very slow it should not be too hard. It's another option I'm considering, since I'm the same: I don't need it to be very Jazz-like.

I have just got the JP-55OP, and I'm liking it more than the JJ. Ok, part of it is the weight, it's only 8.5 lbs, which to me is as light as I could ever hope a 5 string like this to be, and it adds to the comfortable feeling. But the pickups are different too and I'm really liking the Precision pickup. I always see PJ basses essentially as a Precision with the option of bringing in some of the neck pickup sometimes. I never use the bridge alone, so I just adjust its height to the point it sounds best to me when blended equally, and it's important that the P sound is good, so from that point of view I'm very pleased and have no urge to replace anything. 

The P pickup is 2cm closer to the neck than it would be on a typical Precision. It still has that Precision 'bark'', when you hear it you know it is some kind of Precision, but it's a bit darker/smoother. I wish it were at the standard position, but it's a good sound.

Pickups look alnico of some sort looking at the polepieces, while the JJ's are ceramic. Comparing the bridge alone on both basses, the JP one has a bit more grunt and it's a sound I could find a use for with a little added low end, while I'd never use the bridge alone on the JJ (much like I do on any Jazz, really, I find the bridge too thin), but the two J pickups together have that classic Jazz sound, so that's cool.

Everything build-wise is much like the JJ, I can't fault it. 

The JP is passive, and the simple electronics suit the bass well. Maybe one day I'll put a Tonestyler on it, I really like those, but honestly the passive tone control does what I want it to do.

Like on the JJ, shielding is just not a thing, apparently. Easy to fix, 'though.

Just like on every Harley Benton bass I've had my hands on new, the nut is cut slightly tall. I am thinking that's by design now. I'm always a bit wary when I get a bass that out of the box seems to be prepared to play with highish action (the stock strings are very compliant, so it doesn't feel hard even at high action), as it can hide a multitude of fretwork sins... but when you adjust it for lower action it responds well and no fretbuzz to speak of. I only filed down the nut slots a tiny bit, so it's not quite there but the action is now fine for me. I like a medium action with enough relief so that when I did hard I don't get excessive fret noise, but not too high that it compromises my slap (which is not amazing on a good day... I learnt enough to play in a RHCP tribute band for 5-6 years, but while I can copy others it's not a technique I feel I can use very well using my own ideas, and I'm worse on a 5 string).

Not a fan of tortoiseshell effects or pearloid, so I need to do something about those ugly pickguards (going for black single ply on the JP, or just vinyl wrap)... but overall I think they're pretty nice looking, the feel/balance is very good (if this is Aria's original design... well done, Aria, it's not a small body but it's shaped in such way that it feels small), the build is very good and only the electronics are a bit 'meh' in the case of the JJ. I have no complaints whatsoever about the JP.

I like that they come with this nice little rod to turn the truss rod wheel. I've been using a small screwdriver for years on my Stingray, and it's fine, but this rod fits better which is a nice touch.

This is the JP-55OP:

By the way, the JP55OP arrived today. Nice and light (8.5 lbs!). Different pickups to the JJ (JJ look ceramic judging by the polepieces, JP look alnico of some sort) and passive... and I prefer it to the JJ. Once again the nut is cut a little tall so you can't get the lowest action until that's done, and hopefully the frets are reasonably levelled. Just like the JJ, everything seems well built, smooth fret ends, plays well out of the box, and tonally it's a nice PJ. The P pickup is 2cm closer to the neck than on a regular Precision, but the sound from that pickup is unmistakeably that of some kind of Precision, with a nice growl. 

I'm done buying basses for a while now  but Harley Benton is now definitely on my radar as a brand to definitely consider next time I want some other kind of bass.

@crazycloud I double-checked and the dimensions of the Delano 'AS' sized pickups match those in the JJ55OP. It's not just the overall width, but also the distance between the mounting screws:

edit: the original is of decent resolution, but once embedded here it may be hard to read. You can download the image and open separately, or just zoom in within your browser (typically pressing Ctrl and + until the desired zoom level is reached). 

You can also view the PDF here (page 2): https://www.delano.de/downloads/jc_jcas_neck_bridge.pdf 

Only listened to the first track "Armee der Tristen" and I really like it. It does have a vibe of being written according to a formula, but it's a formula I quite like!

As for entry points, @ead, I second what @Barking Spiders said: Sehnsucht and Mutter would be my choices. Probably starting with Mutter, since "Feuer Frei!" is one of my favourites from all albums. 

22 hours ago, mcnach said:

 

My 5 string JJ is 9.8 lbs. Not exactly superlight but not crazy for a 5-string. I expect the 4 string ones to be a bit lighter. The balance/feel is very good, it's a really nice design and with a nice padded strap I find it more comfortable than many other lighter basses I've got... but the weight is still 9.8 lbs.

I'm waiting for another 5 string, a JP. I'll report back when I get it (hopefully tomorrow, if not early next week).

 

edit: arriving tomorrow, just got an email from DHL

5 string JP received. It weighs 8.5 lbs! 

1 hour ago, Twunkbass said:

What's the weight like on these? They look perfect but my spine is fickle 

My 5 string JJ is 9.8 lbs. Not exactly superlight but not crazy for a 5-string. I expect the 4 string ones to be a bit lighter. The balance/feel is very good, it's a really nice design and with a nice padded strap I find it more comfortable than many other lighter basses I've got... but the weight is still 9.8 lbs.

I'm waiting for another 5 string, a JP. I'll report back when I get it (hopefully tomorrow, if not early next week).

edit: arriving tomorrow, just got an email from DHL

2 hours ago, crazycloud said:

Same here. I'm tempted, but I don't really need a 6th 5er.

Do you mind sharing the PU dimensions? Curious what might fit as I have some in my parts box.

What's the meaning of that verb, 'need'?

I'll send the measurements tomorrow, I won't be near the bass today.

Earthing the magnets usually solves this. When they're not accessible, as in your case, it becomes more a matter of avoiding touching the polepieces. I have used clear nail varnish to put a thin coat on the offending poles and that works (and it won't be visible).

2 hours ago, stewblack said:

Yes! Get in.

HB make it so easy for us don't they?

Too easy sometimes. But look, after these I really don't feel the need to get any more 5 string basses, so it's actually SAVING me money as I won't be saving for more expensive ones

(don't say anything, let me believe)

22 minutes ago, Man.about.Tyne said:

Ok, I’m sold.  Just ordered the “bass” strap which is 3.5 inches wide and a few quid more.  I’ll let you know.

That one looks more like the Comfort strap. I nearly bought that one because of the extra width, as 3" was narrower than any of the others I was considering, but I thought I already have a Comfort strap so I'd try the other one (and I like it better than the Comfort one, but both are good).

They also make another kind, thinner but still wide with a layer of neoprene 'studs'. It looks nearly identical to an Ibanez brand strap I also have, and it is light and wide but it offers very little grip (my 'stage clothes' are often too smooth and 'silky'). They're all good, but I feel -for me and my circumstances- the one in the OP is my preferred choice.

Any of these are a nice improvement over the usual 2" nylon types.

Please share your thoughts when you receive yours

13 minutes ago, ikay said:

Surely there must be some sort of substrate material across the full strap width with the memory foam just being an outer layer?

 

There may be something internally. It would make sense as I don't think any kind of foam on its own would be resilient enough, you just can't see or feel it so I guess it must be inside.

Construction details aside, it's solid and there's nothing digging on your shoulder, just 3" of dense foam-like material covered in some kind of fabric.

13 minutes ago, Jean-Luc Pickguard said:

How effective is the memory foam? Does it just ensure you don't forget which key a particular song is in, or does it enable you to remember all the notes you need to play without any mistakes?

I'm sure there's an app for that but I didn't try it yet

27 minutes ago, chris_b said:

 

So is the memory foam strong enough to support the bass?

Yes, it's pretty dense, not like the stuff on pillows etc. I wouldn't call it memory foam myself (if you squeeze it, it returns straight away) but I'm not a foam expert  

I justcompared it to my neoprene comfort strap which has a nylon strap for support and this (Lekato) is denser, using a very scientific method: pinch between thumb and index finger  

My oldest Lekato strap is about 14 months now, used nearly every day and still as good as new.

2 minutes ago, chris_b said:

 

These straps look interesting. 

 

I recently discovered that my Harvest strap, thick, wide, very comfortable, heavy leather, weighs in at 1lb. So my weight limit for a bass wasn't 9.5lbs! I've been carrying 10.5lbs! These are all small margins, but when you have issues, believe me, every ounce counts.

 

Looks like it is a 1" strap in the middle with 1" of memory foam either side. Does the memory foam support the bass or is it just for padding?

I have both the dark reddish one and the black one. 

The middle bit is just decoration on the front. The foam covers the full 3".