Jeff Berlin

[hogman]

Mister Jeffs dvd has landed.

In this he explained his views on metronomes. Quite intresting as he basically says lear your stuff without one. The when you are a mega god use one to see if your playing is pushing or pulling.

It was quite good actually some diffrent views on stuff and he is proper passionate about music education.

[Nate]

+1 to the last part of Jake's post...

[P-T-P]

As much as I can see where people who think that a metronome can be quite clinical are coming from, I think perhaps, as others have said, it's a case of the metronome not being used correctly that's the problem.

The clicks are a reference point. Playing along with a metronome should be about how you fill and/or not fill the spaces between the clicks and how you learn to control where you place your notes in relationship to the beat. It also encourages you to open your ears to and pay attention to another sound source while playing.

By gaining control of your internal clock and increasing your ability to hear outside what you are playing, when the time comes to be playing with other musicians, you're going to be better prepared to adapt to the idiosyncrasies of your fellow musician's time-keeping so that the overall output is that little more coherent or that the "locked-in" sensation is reached that much quicker.

I have a drummer friend who is a slave to the metronome. He can do amazing things in all sorts of weird time signatures... when playing solo. Put him in a band and he is completely void of feel and speeds up, slows down comepletely randomly because he hasn't go that crutch he's so used to. He is a great example of metronome taken too far. I sat down with him and a metronome clicking 1/4 notes and said, "Can you hear it swinging?" and he looked at me like I had 10 heads. I was talking in conceptual terms of course, but it illustrates the point of using a metronome as a springboard.

On the flip side, the guitarist in my band has played for 30 odd years and never rehearsed with a metronome. He will tell you that he listens to the drummer for his time cues. This is a lie. He is in his own little world and doesn't listen to anyone until he notices that something is seriously odd about what's being played and then goes around the houses and finally realises it's him! Unless he is being hit over the head with the beat, he wouldn't have a clue it was there. He also plays way ahead of the beat and just can't adjust from that place at all. He is a nightmare to record.

I think if you dismiss the metronome completely you are just making it harder to get to the final goal of a coherent performance. I think if you get four musicians who regularly use the metronome as a guide and then another four who subscribe to the "I have my own sense of time" school of thought and ask each group to put together a performance of the same song, all other things being equal, time and again the metronomophiles will get there quicker.

If you asked a guitarist, bassist, singer and pianist to learn a tune they are all familiar with but have never actually worked out, independently of each other and with no score, chord charts, cd etc. for reference - i.e. to work it out by ear - what are the chances that, when you put the four of them together, they'll all start off playing in the same key?

We wouldn't dream of being that casual with the melodic quality of the notes we play, why are people content to allow the rhythmic quality to be left entirely to chance?

[lonestar]

[quote name='P-T-P' post='103160' date='Dec 12 2007, 11:57 AM']As much as I can see where people who think that a metronome can be quite clinical are coming from, I think perhaps, as others have said, it's a case of the metronome not being used correctly that's the problem.

The clicks are a reference point. Playing along with a metronome should be about how you fill and/or not fill the spaces between the clicks and how you learn to control where you place your notes in relationship to the beat. It also encourages you to open your ears to and pay attention to another sound source while playing.

By gaining control of your internal clock and increasing your ability to hear outside what you are playing, when the time comes to be playing with other musicians, you're going to be better prepared to adapt to the idiosyncrasies of your fellow musician's time-keeping so that the overall output is that little more coherent or that the "locked-in" sensation is reached that much quicker.

I have a drummer friend who is a slave to the metronome. He can do amazing things in all sorts of weird time signatures... when playing solo. Put him in a band and he is completely void of feel and speeds up, slows down comepletely randomly because he hasn't go that crutch he's so used to. He is a great example of metronome taken too far. I sat down with him and a metronome clicking 1/4 notes and said, "Can you hear it swinging?" and he looked at me like I had 10 heads. I was talking in conceptual terms of course, but it illustrates the point of using a metronome as a springboard.

On the flip side, the guitarist in my band has played for 30 odd years and never rehearsed with a metronome. He will tell you that he listens to the drummer for his time cues. This is a lie. He is in his own little world and doesn't listen to anyone until he notices that something is seriously odd about what's being played and then goes around the houses and finally realises it's him! Unless he is being hit over the head with the beat, he wouldn't have a clue it was there. He also plays way ahead of the beat and just can't adjust from that place at all. He is a nightmare to record.

I think if you dismiss the metronome completely you are just making it harder to get to the final goal of a coherent performance. I think if you get four musicians who regularly use the metronome as a guide and then another four who subscribe to the "I have my own sense of time" school of thought and ask each group to put together a performance of the same song, all other things being equal, time and again the metronomophiles will get there quicker.

If you asked a guitarist, bassist, singer and pianist to learn a tune they are all familiar with but have never actually worked out, independently of each other and with no score, chord charts, cd etc. for reference - i.e. to work it out by ear - what are the chances that, when you put the four of them together, they'll all start off playing in the same key?

We wouldn't dream of being that casual with the melodic quality of the notes we play, why are people content to allow the rhythmic quality to be left entirely to chance?[/quote]


I couldn't of put it better or agree more. Thanks PTP