Help Me Choose My Set-Up...

[Lew-Bass]

It may seem like I'm asking for too much for too little in my description, so I want to make it clear that obviously I know I'll need to compromise on some of my needs:

I want a really defined, warm, smooth, fat tone. At the moment, bedroom playing on my beginner Stagg 30W combo (I know, I know!), the best I've managed to get is a warm, smooth, undefined, compressed - almost overdriven tone (to be fair, the compressor isn't half bad in it). I'm not really into the compressed/overdriven tone much though.

I'm hoping to start gigging with my (metal) band soon, so I want them to be easily capable of handling gigs like the Liverpool barfly if anyone happens to be familiar with it. I was thinking a minimum of 300W? Am I right or..?

Also, I'm not bothered whether it's a combo or an amp & cab combination, but I don't really want anything heavy for portability purposes. I was thinking a maximum of about 25kg for the cab and 10kg for the head? Is that do-able, second-hand, with a budget of £350 (£400 if something [i]really[/i] un-missable is up for sale)?

What amps/cabs do you guys recommend?

Thanks a bunch, I'd be (even more) lost without this site!

EDIT: If it helps, I'm currently playing an Aria SB-405 5-string fretless bass, but in the near future will be purchasing an Ibanez SR500

Edited September 13, 2009 by Lew-Bass

[ahpook]

you anywhere near [url="http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=60496&hl="]bristol [/url] ?

[Lew-Bass]

[quote name='ahpook' post='597699' date='Sep 13 2009, 09:14 PM']you anywhere near [url="http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=60496&hl="]bristol [/url] ?[/quote]

Unfortunately not bud, I'm all the way up in Liverpool. And also, I'm only really looking for stuff in mint condition, plus that marshall cab is a beast at 42.5kg!

[The Funk]

[quote name='Lew-Bass' post='597799' date='Sep 13 2009, 10:34 PM']I'm only really looking for stuff in mint condition[/quote]

If you're going to be gigging all this stuff, the finish will get damaged. So long as any damage is purely cosmetic and doesn't affect function, there isn't a problem.

Can't go wrong with a 250W-300W head and a decent cab. With a budget of £350, you could just about get a GK head and a Hartke cab. I think GK heads and Hartke cabs go very well together.

[mike257]

Hey Lew,

I'm a regular stage-botherer at the Liverpool Barfly - The Funk is right on the money with his recommendations, that kind of power will do you fine. If you're playing those kind of gigs, your amp is only really there for you to hear on stage anyway, the dirty great big PA does all the hard work

I've used heads from 350w up to 600w in there, and never got my master volume even close to half way on stage, so you don't need anything earth-shattering.

Who's your band then? Probably catch you around sooner or later if you're gigging round here, Barfly's only round the corner from my flat!

Mike

[Lew-Bass]

[quote name='mike257' post='598089' date='Sep 14 2009, 12:23 PM']Hey Lew,

I'm a regular stage-botherer at the Liverpool Barfly - The Funk is right on the money with his recommendations, that kind of power will do you fine. If you're playing those kind of gigs, your amp is only really there for you to hear on stage anyway, the dirty great big PA does all the hard work

I've used heads from 350w up to 600w in there, and never got my master volume even close to half way on stage, so you don't need anything earth-shattering.

Who's your band then? Probably catch you around sooner or later if you're gigging round here, Barfly's only round the corner from my flat!

Mike[/quote]

Do they provide you with a head n amp there mate? I've noticed at the Zanzibar anyway that there always seems to be a Wawrick ProFet 5.1 there with a cheap cab (Laney/Peavey I think). If so, what happens then? Do you have to use it?

And thanks mate, I think 300W with PA will be plenty loud enough like you said. And also, I'm only pretty young (16 on April Fools' Day ), and I'm yet to start gigging but my band have a few songs already. Luckily our drummer has a pretty much professional studio in his house so the recording isn't bad for what it is. Got no bass recorded yet though as his dads working intensively in there for the next couple of months. I'll put a link up on here though once it's been recorded, hopefully we'll be gigging by then too

[quote name='The Funk' post='597909' date='Sep 14 2009, 03:10 AM']If you're going to be gigging all this stuff, the finish will get damaged. So long as any damage is purely cosmetic and doesn't affect function, there isn't a problem.

Can't go wrong with a 250W-300W head and a decent cab. With a budget of £350, you could just about get a GK head and a Hartke cab. I think GK heads and Hartke cabs go very well together.[/quote]

Thinking about it, you make sense. I guess I just don't want anything that looks 'old' if you understand me, i.e. not tatty or ripped or anything like that.

Aren't Hartke cabs pretty heavy? And would the GK and Hartke provide the sound I want? (I'm starting to rather like the tone I've got atm, but there's a time and a place for such a compressed, overdriven sound)

[trent900]

[quote name='Lew-Bass' post='598413' date='Sep 14 2009, 05:07 PM']Aren't Hartke cabs pretty heavy? And would the GK and Hartke provide the sound I want? (I'm starting to rather like the tone I've got atm, but there's a time and a place for such a compressed, overdriven sound)[/quote]

Depends what you call heavy. Hartke cabs are no heavier in my experience than others with similar drivers. I don't think Hartke have gone Neodymium...I can't think of a lightweight Hartke but I might be wrong. The 410XL weighs 88lbs, which is about normal for a 410, but it's still heavy. Very heavy. Put some wheels on it.

GK heads are solid, quite heavy, immensely rugged, die-hard solid state (until their recent foray onto the dark side), and very, very punchy. GK heads are famed for the GK 'growl'.

Partner GK snap and growl with an aluminium cone Hartke 410 and you'll have a sound punchier than Vinnie Jones. It will kill a yak at 200 paces. Another advantage is that you should be able to fire anti-tank weapons at your rig and not damage it too badly.

I'll stick my neck out and say that if you want to recreate a compressed, overdriven sound then you could do a lot worse than a GK/Hartke setup. See if you can get a 700RB or 800RB secondhand for a good balance of weight, power, quality and price. I have the 2001RB. Even if you can find one in your price range don't buy it - it is a fantastic bit of kit but absolutely backbreaking to lug around and stack on top of cabs.

Hope this helps.

Jon

PS. I wouldn't get a Hartke single 15". They're less directional and cheaper than the 410s but I get the impression they're not very efficient and they don't have the punch and kick you expect.

[Lew-Bass]

[quote name='trent900' post='598768' date='Sep 14 2009, 10:05 PM']Depends what you call heavy. Hartke cabs are no heavier in my experience than others with similar drivers. I don't think Hartke have gone Neodymium...I can't think of a lightweight Hartke but I might be wrong. The 410XL weighs 88lbs, which is about normal for a 410, but it's still heavy. Very heavy. Put some wheels on it.

GK heads are solid, quite heavy, immensely rugged, die-hard solid state (until their recent foray onto the dark side), and very, very punchy. GK heads are famed for the GK 'growl'.

Partner GK snap and growl with an aluminium cone Hartke 410 and you'll have a sound punchier than Vinnie Jones. It will kill a yak at 200 paces. Another advantage is that you should be able to fire anti-tank weapons at your rig and not damage it too badly.

I'll stick my neck out and say that if you want to recreate a compressed, overdriven sound then you could do a lot worse than a GK/Hartke setup. See if you can get a 700RB or 800RB secondhand for a good balance of weight, power, quality and price. I have the 2001RB. Even if you can find one in your price range don't buy it - it is a fantastic bit of kit but absolutely backbreaking to lug around and stack on top of cabs.

Hope this helps.

Jon

PS. I wouldn't get a Hartke single 15". They're less directional and cheaper than the 410s but I get the impression they're not very efficient and they don't have the punch and kick you expect.[/quote]

Thankyou for the detail you've gone into mate. Maybe I should've made it clearer, but I don't want the compressed tone I have at the moment, it's just making the best of a bad situation. I've found a song that has pretty much my ideal bass tone. It is slightly more trebly than I would [i]ideally[/i] like, but it is as close as I can imagine

If I post a youtube link here could you possibly listen to it and advise me what amp/cab combo would best help achieve it?

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_kWUCjKDwo"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_kWUCjKDwo[/url]

Thanks

[mike257]

[quote name='Lew-Bass' post='598413' date='Sep 14 2009, 05:07 PM']Do they provide you with a head n amp there mate? I've noticed at the Zanzibar anyway that there always seems to be a Wawrick ProFet 5.1 there with a cheap cab (Laney/Peavey I think). If so, what happens then? Do you have to use it?[/quote]

Hey man,

The Zanz provide you with backline, they prefer you to use that rather than have loads of changeovers. I was actually surprised how good the rig sounded last time I was there though. The Barfly don't have any in house backline, it's only really the Zanz and the Cavern that have their own stuff in. Everywhere else, you'll likely need your own gear.

[quote]And thanks mate, I think 300W with PA will be plenty loud enough like you said. And also, I'm only pretty young (16 on April Fools' Day ), and I'm yet to start gigging but my band have a few songs already. Luckily our drummer has a pretty much professional studio in his house so the recording isn't bad for what it is. Got no bass recorded yet though as his dads working intensively in there for the next couple of months. I'll put a link up on here though once it's been recorded, hopefully we'll be gigging by then too [/quote]


What are you guys called? I'll keep an ear out for you, defo let me know when the recording is done

Mike

[Lew-Bass]

[quote name='mike257' post='599053' date='Sep 15 2009, 11:06 AM']Hey man,

The Zanz provide you with backline, they prefer you to use that rather than have loads of changeovers. I was actually surprised how good the rig sounded last time I was there though. The Barfly don't have any in house backline, it's only really the Zanz and the Cavern that have their own stuff in. Everywhere else, you'll likely need your own gear.




What are you guys called? I'll keep an ear out for you, defo let me know when the recording is done

Mike[/quote]

Ahh, thanks for the info. And yeah, you're not wrong about the Zanzi, the majority of bassists have sounded decent when I've been there.

We're called Padula mate (urbandictionary has the answer if you [i]really[/i] want to know.. it isn't pleasant though!). We couldn't think of a name so we just went on there and looked for the strangest thing that sounded decent

Had a listen to your band, you're really good mate and I'll keep an eye out for you too. Not usually the type of music I'm that into but really enjoyed the listen, good luck with gigging etc. and even though we're very different genres (Athough I am starting an indie band up; maybe we could sort a support slot out for you when we're ready?) hopefully we cross paths

[mike257]

[quote name='Lew-Bass' post='599526' date='Sep 15 2009, 07:17 PM']Ahh, thanks for the info. And yeah, you're not wrong about the Zanzi, the majority of bassists have sounded decent when I've been there.

We're called Padula mate (urbandictionary has the answer if you [i]really[/i] want to know.. it isn't pleasant though!). We couldn't think of a name so we just went on there and looked for the strangest thing that sounded decent

Had a listen to your band, you're really good mate and I'll keep an eye out for you too. Not usually the type of music I'm that into but really enjoyed the listen, good luck with gigging etc. and even though we're very different genres (Athough I am starting an indie band up; maybe we could sort a support slot out for you when we're ready?) hopefully we cross paths [/quote]


Haha, I'm on my work laptop, maybe I'm best waiting til I'm home to look at that then

Cheers for checking the band out - those demos are pretty old school, we've just finished our EP so there'll be some new tracks going up soon. It's a new sound for me really, I've always been in noisy rock bands up until now! What kind of stuff are you guys playing?

EDIT: Just got your PM, reply coming back atcha!

Edited September 16, 2009 by mike257

[The Funk]

[quote name='Lew-Bass' post='597672' date='Sep 13 2009, 08:43 PM']I want a really defined, warm, smooth, fat tone.[/quote]

I'm going to stick with my Hartke cab recommendation because they're seriously unfashionable now and therefore great value for money. I love the sound of them.

I'm going to suggest one of the discontinued valve Warwick heads, such as the Quad IV or Quad VI. Have a look around to see if there are any for sale secondhand.

[The Funk]

Gallien Krueger 700RB 2x10 combo for £325. Could serve you well.

[url="http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=60735"]http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=60735[/url]

[Lew-Bass]

[quote name='mike257' post='599860' date='Sep 16 2009, 08:21 AM']Haha, I'm on my work laptop, maybe I'm best waiting til I'm home to look at that then

Cheers for checking the band out - those demos are pretty old school, we've just finished our EP so there'll be some new tracks going up soon. It's a new sound for me really, I've always been in noisy rock bands up until now! What kind of stuff are you guys playing?

EDIT: Just got your PM, reply coming back atcha![/quote]

Haha, we play pretty standard metal really.. I'd prefer it to be a bit more proggy but ah well, it'll sound pretty good once its properly mixed etc. (and with bass!)

Did you find that you have more 'sonic space' in a band like the one you're in at the moment? I've always wanted to be in both an indie (I'm using the term broadly here) and a metal band, as the bass has two different functions really. I've insisted, as the band former, that there's only going to be one guitarist in the indie band, to allow the bass more room to be heard and utilized. I reckon we'd be ready to gig within a few months in all honesty, it won't take long to knock a few songs up with the odd cover thrown in. It'd be great if we could open for you or whatever, if you have any say in that

[Lew-Bass]

[quote name='The Funk' post='600218' date='Sep 16 2009, 02:01 PM']Gallien Krueger 700RB 2x10 combo for £325. Could serve you well.

[url="http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=60735"]http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=60735[/url][/quote]

I saw that mate, thanks for the heads up. It's collection only though from Essex and I'm based in Liverpool.

Do you reckon the Hartke HyDrive 210c would be good for me?

[Lew-Bass]

Just to say, I think I've been able to stretch my budget to £500. How much do you think ideally I would need to spend if I went amp/cab? £300 on the amp and £200 on the cab, or could I get a good head for £200?

[mike257]

[quote name='Lew-Bass' post='600473' date='Sep 16 2009, 05:06 PM']or could I get a good head for £200?[/quote]

On Crown Street of a night, probably.

[quote]Did you find that you have more 'sonic space' in a band like the one you're in at the moment? I've always wanted to be in both an indie (I'm using the term broadly here) and a metal band, as the bass has two different functions really. I've insisted, as the band former, that there's only going to be one guitarist in the indie band, to allow the bass more room to be heard and utilized. I reckon we'd be ready to gig within a few months in all honesty, it won't take long to knock a few songs up with the odd cover thrown in. It'd be great if we could open for you or whatever, if you have any say in that[/quote]

The demos on the site are pretty old (pre-band, missing half the members) and don't really reflect how we sound. There's actually me, the drummer, acoustic guitar, two electric guitars and a steel player. All of that is backing up three lead vocals with almost-constant harmony going on. We're all very careful to leave plenty space musically, as the harmony vocal is the focal point in the music. I play less notes than I've ever played in my life! The new recordings should be getting mastered next week, I'll drop you a line when it's up if you fancy a listen.


As for amp shopping, check out this for £480 in the For Sale forum:

[url="http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=60660"]http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=60660[/url]

It's a hefty head, racked, with a rack tuner included, and a 2x10 cab. You'll be putting 300ish watts into the cab at 4ohm, and as the head runs up to 2ohm, you could always add a second cab in future if your needs change. The seller is in Cumbria, but says he'll come as far south as Warrington to drop it off, so I guess that's close enough to us in the 'pool. Well worth a shout, I reckon

[Lew-Bass]

[quote name='mike257' post='600497' date='Sep 16 2009, 05:29 PM']On Crown Street of a night, probably.



The demos on the site are pretty old (pre-band, missing half the members) and don't really reflect how we sound. There's actually me, the drummer, acoustic guitar, two electric guitars and a steel player. All of that is backing up three lead vocals with almost-constant harmony going on. We're all very careful to leave plenty space musically, as the harmony vocal is the focal point in the music. I play less notes than I've ever played in my life! The new recordings should be getting mastered next week, I'll drop you a line when it's up if you fancy a listen.


As for amp shopping, check out this for £480 in the For Sale forum:

[url="http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=60660"]http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=60660[/url]

It's a hefty head, racked, with a rack tuner included, and a 2x10 cab. You'll be putting 300ish watts into the cab at 4ohm, and as the head runs up to 2ohm, you could always add a second cab in future if your needs change. The seller is in Cumbria, but says he'll come as far south as Warrington to drop it off, so I guess that's close enough to us in the 'pool. Well worth a shout, I reckon [/quote]

Firstly.. !

And woah, it'd be really intriguing hearing your new stuff then, and how you all compensate for eachother. Please do drop me a line

And about that amp; reading reviews and watching a demo of it on youtube (namedly Bill Clements; amazing player - [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SX_PFH--rXo)"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SX_PFH--rXo)[/url] I think I'm sold on it. How much do you reckon it would weigh in at with the rack case, tuner and head (the head alone is roughly 12kg)? I think I'll look for a different cab though, read reviews saying they're abit boomy. Any Ideas for £150ish?

Thanks mate

[trent900]

For £150? Hartke 2x10 again

Just been listening to Anna Molly...quite a good tune I'd not heard before...cheers. I think it is actually quite a tightly compressed sound on that track, just without a lot of treble and with fast attack.

Probably go for the Eden head. If you don't like it, live with it for a bit, then flog it or swap it. That's the beauty of secondhand.

Reviews alone are useful but not gospel truth. Witness the eternal Ashdown debate: some reviewers will rave about them, some will hate them. Which are you going to go for? If there's a good shop near you it's always worth going down and trying to have a blitz on some stuff. I find so long as I push some business their way (even if it's not the massive stack I've been playing on) I don't feel too bad about it...

[Lew-Bass]

[quote name='trent900' post='600632' date='Sep 16 2009, 07:36 PM']For £150? Hartke 2x10 again

Just been listening to Anna Molly...quite a good tune I'd not heard before...cheers. I think it is actually quite a tightly compressed sound on that track, just without a lot of treble and with fast attack.

Probably go for the Eden head. If you don't like it, live with it for a bit, then flog it or swap it. That's the beauty of secondhand.

Reviews alone are useful but not gospel truth. Witness the eternal Ashdown debate: some reviewers will rave about them, some will hate them. Which are you going to go for? If there's a good shop near you it's always worth going down and trying to have a blitz on some stuff. I find so long as I push some business their way (even if it's not the massive stack I've been playing on) I don't feel too bad about it...[/quote]

Is there a Hartke 210 on the board for £150? I really do need something pretty lightweight, considering I'm guessing the whole rack unit will end up coming in at 15KG, which is pretty heavy

And yeah, it does look a good amp. Do you know if they're still in production? And if they are how much they are new/how much they were if not?

And yeah, that's true about Ashdown. The Dolphin Music has a MAG600 and Ashdown cab (I think it's a 410) that they use as the show amp, and it sounds pretty good to my ears. Doesn't look good to my arms though!!

[trent900]

Don't know about on this board but the 210xl is only about £220 new so if you can locate a secondhand one £150 should be plenty.

It weighs 46lb, what's that...21kg?

It's not light. But then 20kg isn't actually that much. The 3 bits of my rig weigh 30kg, 15kg and 35kg and the only one I have trouble with is the 35kg head unit, so long as I lift from the knees and keep the back straight!

To be honest, if you want power to match a ~300W head and you've got £150 I think 'lightweight' may be beyond you. I'm no expert but in my experience lightweight cabs are comparitively costly. I think neodymium for the magnets is expensive stuff. For example, a GK Neo 210 will be £350-£400 new, and the benchmark, the Epifani UL210 will be over £800. And even a Neo cab will weigh about 35lb - 16kg. Reasonably loud cabs are, in general, not light.

A single 12" will be lighter and than a 2x10", and cheaper. I don't know whether it will have enough beef because I don't know what or where you will be playing. The GK Neo 112 weighs 14kg and is £300 new so somewhere near-ish to your price range if you can find one secondhand.

I would [i]really[/i] recommend finding a well stocked shop and having a go at playing and lifting. Talk will only get you so far. But by all means get the Eden, it will serve you well.

[The Funk]

Hartke do/did a Transporter range of cabs which were lighter and had a smaller frequency range and were cheaper than their XL range - but using the same type of cones. I've heard people gig with them. Great sound! The Transporter 2x10s were about £150 new last time I checked.

[Lew-Bass]

[quote name='trent900' post='601573' date='Sep 17 2009, 06:55 PM']Don't know about on this board but the 210xl is only about £220 new so if you can locate a secondhand one £150 should be plenty.

It weighs 46lb, what's that...21kg?

It's not light. But then 20kg isn't actually that much. The 3 bits of my rig weigh 30kg, 15kg and 35kg and the only one I have trouble with is the 35kg head unit, so long as I lift from the knees and keep the back straight!

To be honest, if you want power to match a ~300W head and you've got £150 I think 'lightweight' may be beyond you. I'm no expert but in my experience lightweight cabs are comparitively costly. I think neodymium for the magnets is expensive stuff. For example, a GK Neo 210 will be £350-£400 new, and the benchmark, the Epifani UL210 will be over £800. And even a Neo cab will weigh about 35lb - 16kg. Reasonably loud cabs are, in general, not light.

A single 12" will be lighter and than a 2x10", and cheaper. I don't know whether it will have enough beef because I don't know what or where you will be playing. The GK Neo 112 weighs 14kg and is £300 new so somewhere near-ish to your price range if you can find one secondhand.

I would [i]really[/i] recommend finding a well stocked shop and having a go at playing and lifting. Talk will only get you so far. But by all means get the Eden, it will serve you well.[/quote]

Thankyou mate, and don't worry, I'm not being naive, I know I'm not going to get something like an epifani cab for £150. By lightweight, I mean anything circa 20kg. A fairly easy carry basically.

I've scored that head (inc. the rack tuner and the rack), getting it in two weeks time. I've read some poor things about the nemesis cabs though, so I've said that I don't want that at this moment in time but I could change my mind. He has the NSP210. I'm on the look-out for a better cab though (as a result of the things I've read).

[b]Also, a question I haven't asked yet; which speaker configuration would be best for me? I'm in two bands, a metal band and a light rock/indie band. Considering the tone I aspire to in my original post, I was thinking 2x10 (ideally 2x12 but that isn't attainable with my budget). Am I right?[/b]

Edited September 17, 2009 by Lew-Bass