In praise of Ashdown Engineering support

[Minininjarob]

1 hour ago, DGBass said:

The relay is I'm sure part of the output soft start circuit and not the fan circuit. I have one of these and the fan has never come on ever, not even when I've used the amp very hard. I think the amp modules in these are stripped down budget versions of the Powersoft DigiMod class-d modules, though I can't be sure. I'd like someone to tell me otherwise! I've asked Powersoft and they aren't sure either. If the schematic for the Digimod units are anything to go by, the fan should activate when the unit reaches approx 50C. My amp is eighteen years old, so in class-d terms that's a long while ago and even the Digimod versions are now obsolete.  As has been mentioned, as long as they don't get heavy use, the chunky heat sink seems to cope well. They make nice home and studio amps as they are very clean but warm sounding.  I've never had mine cut out at all.  I think from Ashdown's perspective I can understand there isn't a lot they can do to repair these, and replacement modules don't seem generally available. Faulting surface mount tech like this is beyond my capabilities, and I expect very time consuming for folks who do have the capabilities. It's the old chestnut of being easier to swap an entire unit, than fix it. Throwaway technology.  If you can find a used and working Digimod 500/1000 module, I believe the original PSAMP350 modules will swap out easily with them. 

Thanks for that. Without a schematic I just assumed the relay was for the fan as it’s a 12v one same as the fan, and it’s next to the fan header. Really interesting info, thanks very much - I wouldn’t expect a low stressed relay to go that easily anyway so the fact it will probably be something else is bad news but might save me a lot of time. Will sell it for parts probably. 
I did read up that the fan should come on briefly when you start it up and it doesn’t do that so I am assuming that it’s something to do with the fan control, but if it’s heating up and cutting out so easily then maybe there is multiple problems - maybe the amp sections are struggling and getting too hot, then the fan circuit or temp sensors have given up from overuse. Who knows? 

Edited yesterday at 11:51 by Minininjarob

[Minininjarob]

3 hours ago, Ruarl said:

You mentioned up the thread that this was only for bedroom practice. Since the owner can’t afford anything else, why not just use the amp as-is at low volumes? And just keep an eye on the temperature. Or take regular breaks? Or are there other problems besides the fan not coming on? 

It’s used for bedroom practice and for gigs too, I can’t remember when he said it cuts out but it’s enough to make it fairly useless. 

[DGBass]

38 minutes ago, Minininjarob said:

Thanks for that. Without a schematic I just assumed the relay was for the fan as it’s a 12v one same as the fan, and it’s next to the fan header. Really interesting info, thanks very much - I wouldn’t expect a low stressed relay to go that easily anyway so the fact it will probably be something else is bad news but might save me a lot of time. Will sell it for parts probably. 
I did read up that the fan should come on briefly when you start it up and it doesn’t do that so I am assuming that it’s something to do with the fan control, but if it’s heating up and cutting out so easily then maybe there is multiple problems - maybe the amp sections are struggling and getting too hot, then the fan circuit or temp sensors have given up from overuse. Who knows? 

Actually, I've just found some more detail on the module, it is a Powersoft product called PowerMod II. Thermal protection shuts the unit off at 85C. It will work fine with the heatsink according to Powersoft up to an ambient temp of 45C. The temp sensor is apparently underneath the main board attached to the heatsink. No schematic available unfortunately. These were originally designed back in 2002 and have been obsolete for some years. You might find a manual online if you search PowerMod II . 

[Minininjarob]

2 hours ago, DGBass said:

Actually, I've just found some more detail on the module, it is a Powersoft product called PowerMod II. Thermal protection shuts the unit off at 85C. It will work fine with the heatsink according to Powersoft up to an ambient temp of 45C. The temp sensor is apparently underneath the main board attached to the heatsink. No schematic available unfortunately. These were originally designed back in 2002 and have been obsolete for some years. You might find a manual online if you search PowerMod II . 

Thanks. I wonder if the temp sensor is cooked? I will see if I can find it and test it. 

[agedhorse]

8 hours ago, Minininjarob said:

Thanks. I wonder if the temp sensor is cooked? I will see if I can find it and test it. 

At this point, with the incorrect assumptions already made, you might just want to leave it alone before you really break it!

 

No way is that a fan relay, it's a freekin' 10A/5A G5 series relay that's safety approved for use in primary circuits. It's one of 3 things... a soft start disengagement relay, a remote power-up relay or an output muting relay.

[Minininjarob]

36 minutes ago, agedhorse said:

At this point, with the incorrect assumptions already made, you might just want to leave it alone before you really break it!

 

No way is that a fan relay, it's a freekin' 10A/5A G5 series relay that's safety approved for use in primary circuits. It's one of 3 things... a soft start disengagement relay, a remote power-up relay or an output muting relay.

I’ve got someone who is helping me via DM. 

I have almost taken it apart now so I can see the tracks underneath, but yeah you’re right that’s a primary circuit relay, no idea what it’s doing there but when I can see the layout it’ll make more sense. 
Checked the only thermistor I can find on the board and that’s working fine, it’s attached to a transistor in (I think) the input stage which isn’t bolted to the heating. 
Got some other things to check too. 
Grr I hate these sorts of circuits. Wish I still had all my electrical testing stuff I had when I was much younger (and I could remember anything that was taught me! It’s fun to try and relearn it all though). 

[agedhorse]

The thermistor doesn’t have anything to do with the input stage. 
 

Good luck. 

[Minininjarob]

6 hours ago, agedhorse said:

The thermistor doesn’t have anything to do with the input stage. 
 

Good luck. 

Well thankyou for, as usual, just telling me I’m wrong without offering any useful help. I don’t know why you single me out to look down on. 
Thankfully there is someone I am working with via DM who is helpful and we are working together as we both have the same issue, and we have managed to figure out the best steps forward. 
And that’s all I’m gonna say on this thread. 

[Beedster]

51 minutes ago, Minininjarob said:

Well thankyou for, as usual, just telling me I’m wrong without offering any useful help. I don’t know why you single me out to look down on. 
Thankfully there is someone I am working with via DM who is helpful and we are working together as we both have the same issue, and we have managed to figure out the best steps forward. 
And that’s all I’m gonna say on this thread. 

 

Well, you did hijack a thread originally posted to praise a company that around 99% of people would say are 100% outstanding (Sex Panther reference there), criticised them for not helping although Dave did suggest a workaround albeit one that you rejected, then suggested that without another fix your friend's only amp is going in the bin because the fan being on all the time would not work for bedroom practice (despite the fact they can't afford a replacement), then mentioned he uses it for gigs also. 

 

My solution would be the same as Dave's; wire the fan on all the time, live with it for bedroom practice, and have a gig-worthy amp. Certainly far better than binning it or damaging it attempting repair.

 

Either way, as Andy @agedhorse said, good luck. And I honestly would be very surprised to find that if you picked up the phone to Ashdown you didn't get a solution, given my experience with them and that of many others, it sounds like you either caught them on a bad day or there was a misunderstanding of some sort  👍

  

[Minininjarob]

3 hours ago, Beedster said:

 

Well, you did hijack a thread originally posted to praise a company that around 99% of people would say are 100% outstanding (Sex Panther reference there), criticised them for not helping although Dave did suggest a workaround albeit one that you rejected, then suggested that without another fix your friend's only amp is going in the bin because the fan being on all the time would not work for bedroom practice (despite the fact they can't afford a replacement), then mentioned he uses it for gigs also. 

 

My solution would be the same as Dave's; wire the fan on all the time, live with it for bedroom practice, and have a gig-worthy amp. Certainly far better than binning it or damaging it attempting repair.

 

Either way, as Andy @agedhorse said, good luck. And I honestly would be very surprised to find that if you picked up the phone to Ashdown you didn't get a solution, given my experience with them and that of many others, it sounds like you either caught them on a bad day or there was a misunderstanding of some sort  👍

  

 

I wasn't trying to hijack a thread, I gave a quick post with my experience and people kept asking me questions!

I didn't blame Dave, he did what he could I think, its just important to understand they can't help with everything rather than just have blanket praise that they are always amazing. If you want to ignore my experience that fine, I don't mind.

Maybe I think its more to do with the fact that some modern amps, while lightweight and small, just aren't as fixable as older ones, which is why I don't own or want one. 

Also do they have to provide such good service as they break down more than other brands? I really don't know, and I don't think it would be possible to find out with any accuracy, so it would be unfair to assume that.

Its great they give good service but I'd rather have an amp that never breaks down personally.

(btw the sex panther ref was awesome, made me smile!)

[agedhorse]

It’s not that modern lightweight amps aren’t fixable, it’s because you don’t have the necessary skills, experience and knowledge to do so. That’s been pretty clear in both your comments ant then your follow-up attitude. 
 

You will first need to understand how it works before understanding why it doesn’t work. Then you can fix the part(s) that are responsible for the problem. 
 

Does the fan work outside the amp on its nominal working voltage?
 

Is there a proportional control circuit involved? 

 

Is it normal for the fan not to run until a specific threshold temperature?

 

Does the fan start running when the temperature of a specific area or component rises above a threshold?

 

Have you identified that there even is a real problem rather than an assumed problem?

 

These are all questions that need to be answered before a QUALIFIED service tech begins a repair. 

[Pirellithecat]

Not wanting to get into the detail of this, I've used Ashdown Amps (not exclusively) for 10 years.  Whatever issue I've had (very few) have been dealt with by Ashdown.   I did lend my amp to someone and found that, on return the Fans had failed.  Mid Gig! = meltdown.   Dave looked at it, replaced the main board , made sure it was all OK and sent it back .... fixed.  Wouldn't even accept a postage fee .... i.e. Zero Cost!. 
Did mention that the case was slightly "skewwhiff" .... so I reckon it was dropped!!! 
Now works better than ever!   
So, i think it's reasonable to endorse the idea that Ashdowns Customer Service is Excellent.   I hope they recognize that this is a major strength and differentiator.