Shuttlemax 9.2 D.I. [ now no worky ]

[fleabag]

While us chaps are still in rehearsals,  i'm thinking about going D.I. out in the future.  The 9.2 has the option of switchable  Line or Mic level D.I.

 

Is one better / more useful than the other, and can i still use both channel gains + volumes , and master volume , whichever D.I. option i use ?

 

 

Edited February 4, 2023 by fleabag

[BassmanPaul]

Time to call the Guru.

 

@agedhorse

[agedhorse]

First, I am assuming that you man ShuttleMax 9.2 since there was not a 6.2 model in the Shuttlemax series. If it's a Shuttle 6.2, let me know and I will get you a copy of the correct manual.

 

It depends on what you are trying to do. Line level is fine IF the console that you will be feeding is capable of handling line level (most pro consoles will have no problem), but if not you can switch to mic level (which is about 20dB lower)

 

The controls only affect the DI when switched to post-eq mode.

 

I have attached a copy of the owner's manual, there is all the info you need about how the DI section works.

ShuttleMax 9.2 Owners manual.pdf

[fleabag]

Thanks Mr horse, yes a typo in the title and post. It's a 9.2 as you say.

 

I'll have a whiz through that manual ,  cheers for the link !

[fleabag]

Just looked at the manual and it doesnt say much about the D.I.  but you have answered my question better than the  manual.

 

The console is an analogue Yamaha  MX 12/4

 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 20, 2022 by fleabag

[agedhorse]

For that console, mic level will probably be more appropriate.

[fleabag]

Thanks - mic level it is

[fleabag]

Oh dear

 

I tried D.I. ing the  Max into a powered wedge monitor ( its what i have at home right now ) .. merely just to check the D.I., and i get zip. Zilch. Nada.

 

Tried  Post/Pre both ways, Mic/Line  both ways.    Silence

 

Checked cables, checked the Wedgie,  they're  all good.

 

Nurse !    help..

[agedhorse]

Since I have yet to see a bad DI in a ShuttleMax amp ever, let’s be sure it’s not something external to the amp. 

 

Set the DI to pre mode, line level, plug your bass in, be sure the mute switch is off. Check that your powered monitor is properly configured and you should have sound. No other controls on the amp will have an effect. 
 

In pre mode, the level may be a little lower than in post mode depending on how you have the amp’s controls set. 
 

Now, switch to post mode, set the eq to noon (flat), set the tone shaping filters off, select channel 1, bring the channel 1 volume control to 1:00 and slowly bring the channel 1 gain control up. You should have sound. 
 

If you don’t, can you confirm

that you are using an XLR to XLR cable and that it’s properly wired? Is there a selector switch on the monitor between mic and line that might also switch the monitor’s inputs? 

[fleabag]

Thanks, I'll go through that procedure , but i have already tested the XLR cable, and the monitor. The monitor has no line/mic switch.

They're both ok.

[fleabag]

Righto, well i definately have sound now, where i didnt before  👍👍

Using  Pre + Mic then Pre +  Line  -  too quiet as you foretold.  All ok apart from the Volume

 

Using  Post +  Mic,  ok.  Using Post + Line,  loud buzzing.

This is with all EQ set flat,  ( apart from Freq knobs ), and bringing gain up while Channel Vol at 1.00

 

With bass plugged in the GB, but not played, the buzzing gets louder if i turn up either CH 1 Gain or Ch 1 Vol ..or both

 

Sound file attached.  You can hear the open E initially + buzzing.  The buzzing appears to get a tad louder, but its just the bass note fading making it seem louder

 

 

 

 

Edited February 5, 2023 by fleabag

[BassmanPaul]

Are you standing too close to the amp?  If so try moving away from the amp.

[fleabag]

I moved away from the amp and nothing changed.

 

I also tried the same setup, but using my Trace combo.  Same bass, same bass cable, same XLR, and no buzzing at all from the monitor. 

 

The Trace has no Pre/Post/Line/Mic options, just the XLR socket.  I dont know what the D.I. is set to inside the amp, but the Trace master volume still works, and

so does the 12 band graphic, so  assume its Post EQ

 

On the Genz, the master volume is taken out of the equation in Post EQ option.

[agedhorse]

Did you try both positions of the ground lift switch?

 

I’m assuming that the monitor’s input is line level… is the monitor earthed? Is the amp earthed? This is important.

[fleabag]

Yes i tried both.  Moving the GL does nothing.

 

I have no info on the monitor regarding mic / line level.   As for earthing,  both mains plugs IEC cables ( monitor and amp )   are sealed / molded units, so cannot open them up to check for earths.

 

Maybe the next ting to try is different IEC mains cable for the Genz ?   There's no buzz when using the Trace, so i assume the Genz is the problem.

Just for elimination purposes, i will change the IEC mains cable for the monitor too.

 

This is acedemic right now though, because these days, most IEC mains cables i have seem to be the molded / sealed type.  I'm hoping there's one non-sealed one in my collection

Edited February 6, 2023 by fleabag

[fleabag]

Hard to believe how many of those IEC cables i have where the plug is sealed.

 

I eventually found an IEC mains cable where i could get into the plug itself.  There was an Earth connected as well as the usual Live and Neutral.

 

Tried this and again, it made no difference at all.  There has to be something awol inside the Genz.  There's not much left to try.

[agedhorse]

Does the position of the ground switch on the DI out make any difference?

 

is the power source itself really earthed? This is by far the most common cause of noise. Just because the other amp was ok doesn’t rule this out because the internal architecture is different.

 

Most IEC cables are molded assemblies, it’s easier to maintain safety certification under the components program.

Edited February 6, 2023 by agedhorse

[fleabag]

Moving the ground lift made no difference at all, not even a tiny bit.  The only thing that stops the buzzing is switching to Mic level.

 

The power source is earthed. I opened it up to have a look.

[fleabag]

Oh FFS.

 

I changed the bass from my passive single coil Dean Bromburg B2 to my active Basso with humbuckers.  Problem solved. !!!

 

I cant believe it was just the type of bass pickups that were the problem.   My Trace Elliot had no problem with the single coil Dean.

 

Even when i moved round my room away from the Genz with the Dean, it made no difference at all.  Soon as i swapped to humbuckers - bingo

 

Thanks to all for jumping in, especially you AH. 👍

[BassmanPaul]

Single coils are notorious for picking up noise. This is what I was getting to with my post. You might be able to resolve the problem by screening the control cavity and under pickup area with copper self adhesive tape. It's fairly easy to do. 

[agedhorse]

34 minutes ago, BassmanPaul said:

Single coils are notorious for picking up noise. This is what I was getting to with my post. You might be able to resolve the problem by screening the control cavity and under pickup area with copper self adhesive tape. It's fairly easy to do. 

Just be sure that the shielding material is bonded to signal ground at the output jack, otherwise it can make things worse.

[fleabag]

I'm hanging my head in shame

I should have known really.  I didnt twig because i had a long enough lead to walk well away from the amp, and the buzzing didnt even diminish with distance.

 

The Dean single coil bass is just a sit at home bass while my  Basso with humbuckers sits in it's case, ready to take out to rehearsals

[BassmanPaul]

1 hour ago, agedhorse said:

Just be sure that the shielding material is bonded to signal ground at the output jack, otherwise it can make things worse.

Agreed - I should have included that tidbit! LOL

 

Also if two lengths of tape cross then tack them together with solder.

[Gareth Hughes]

2 hours ago, fleabag said:

I'm hanging my head in shame

I should have known really…..

 

If it makes you feel better, at two gigs over the past fortnight I have spent a good ten minutes trying to eliminate this buzzing that just came out of nowhere, wasn’t there earlier, calling over soundguys to help, etc only to finally realise that, in leaning over to adjust pedals, I have knocked my pickup from parallel to single coil. Doh!!!!

[BassmanPaul]

Gareth even the best of us make mistakes!