Gotoh 201 bridge. Too Much sustain for slap & pop?

[ziggenpuss]

For the last couple of months I've been dabbling with slap & pop but I've encountered a problem I suspect may be to do with the Gotoh 201 bridge on my Squire VMJ.

When I pop on the G string the there is a horrible metallic 'clank' sound that rings out. I wouldn't say it's clear enough to describe as a harmonic, just a ringing clank if that makes sense.

It's the same on the D string but to a lesser extent and you can hear it unamplified so it's not anything to do with the electrics or amp etc.

Being new to slapping my first thought was that it must be my technique so I did some listening and learning and refined my style a bit, choking the popped notes off a bit more than I was doing before. This lessened the 'clank' a bit but it's still definitely there.

Next I tried a few different types of string,problem still there.

Last week I replaced the Gotoh with the stock bridge. Guess what? Problem gone, no more 'clank'. Just to make sure I tried the Gotoh again yesterday. 'Clank' returns so back on goes the stock bridge.

The Gotoh is brilliant for fingerstyle and pick playing and it looks the dog's danglies but it's just not a happy bunny with the slapping.

Has anyone else experienced this or have any ideas?

The bridges are acclaimed for their sustain qualities but is it this that is causing the problem or is it still my technique and the bridge is highlighting this?

The noise is obviously worse when I'm in heavy duty attack mode Flea/Louis Johnson style but even on more subtle Marcus Miller type stuff I can still hear it.

At the moment I'm getting exactly the sound I want with the stock bridge and stainless steel strings so I'm not overly worried now, just confused really. Is the problem the bridge or my technique and the lower quality bridge is hiding something I need to address?

[Prosebass]

The Gotoh will just be dong its job properly ie providing a good anchor and good fixed saddle point for the string.
Clangyness is usually down to your strings. If you slap and pop a lot have you considered flatwounds ?
They generally give a more even tone without the brashness / zingyness of roundwounds.

[stoo]

Can't really offer any useful help, but just out of curiosity.....

Is the string height set the same on both bridges? Is the clank sound from the frets or the bridge itself?

Does the cut angle of the string differ much after passing over the saddle? Less angle would mean less downforce on the saddle, and so the saddle could have more chance of rattling around...

[ziggenpuss]

Hi Prosebass and Stoo.

I have tried flatwounds, nickel and stainless steel, old string, new strings, all sorts of combinations really. I didn't notice the 'clank' with the flats but I prefer the zingyness of the stainless for the funk and slapping stuff, I've got flats on the other bass for soul, blues and reggae.

Both bridges are set up to the same height, 3mm gap between fret and bottom of E string which I find comfortable all round, and the saddles are pretty much level on both bridges.

I did consider if it was uneven frets that were the problem but the noise is just not there with the stock bridge, no matter how hard I spank it.

[Prosebass]

[quote name='ziggenpuss' post='376729' date='Jan 11 2009, 12:50 PM']Hi Prosebass and Stoo.

I have tried flatwounds, nickel and stainless steel, old string, new strings, all sorts of combinations really. I didn't notice the 'clank' with the flats but I prefer the zingyness of the stainless for the funk and slapping stuff, I've got flats on the other bass for soul, blues and reggae.

Both bridges are set up to the same height, 3mm gap between fret and bottom of E string which I find comfortable all round, and the saddles are pretty much level on both bridges.

I did consider if it was uneven frets that were the problem but the noise is just not there with the stock bridge, no matter how hard I spank it.[/quote]

The stock bridge (bent tin) will not be allowing all the vibrations of the string and will probably be damping / deadening the highs / treble hence the more even tone and probably less sustain.
If it works keep it on , that design of bridge has been good enough for some of the best bassists, Jamerson , Pastorius, etc..

[stoo]

[quote name='ziggenpuss' post='376729' date='Jan 11 2009, 12:50 PM']Both bridges are set up to the same height, 3mm gap between fret and bottom of E string which I find comfortable all round, and the saddles are pretty much level on both bridges.[/quote]

But what about the break angle? If the string anchor point is a further behind the saddle length-wise, or further from the body height-wise, then the saddle itself will get less downward force from the string to hold it in place.

Also - how well are the saddles held in place before the string is put on? On the stock bridge on my MIM Jazz, the spring wasn't long enough to hold the saddle firmly in place and that used to cause some weird noises... probably just vibrations from the spring itself, but it went away once I replaced it with a Hipshot B....

I've seen some bridges have an extra screw that goes through the side of the bridge, and then presses against the end of the saddle for either the top or bottom string... this clamps the saddles in place once you've set the intonation and helps prevent any unwanted vibrations from the bridge. Is it possible to simulate something like this by wedging something between the saddles to try and lock the saddles more firmly in place... it might at least confirm that it's definitely the bridge that the noise is coming from???

[ziggenpuss]

[quote name='stoo' post='376738' date='Jan 11 2009, 01:05 PM']But what about the break angle? If the string anchor point is a further behind the saddle length-wise, or further from the body height-wise, then the saddle itself will get less downward force from the string to hold it in place.

Also - how well are the saddles held in place before the string is put on? On the stock bridge on my MIM Jazz, the spring wasn't long enough to hold the saddle firmly in place and that used to cause some weird noises... probably just vibrations from the spring itself, but it went away once I replaced it with a Hipshot B....

I've seen some bridges have an extra screw that goes through the side of the bridge, and then presses against the end of the saddle for either the top or bottom string... this clamps the saddles in place once you've set the intonation and helps prevent any unwanted vibrations from the bridge. Is it possible to simulate something like this by wedging something between the saddles to try and lock the saddles more firmly in place... it might at least confirm that it's definitely the bridge that the noise is coming from???[/quote]

I've just done some checking on this. The angle of the string as it comes out of the back of the bridge and onto the saddle seems about the same, 5mm as it comes out and 1cm as it reaches the saddle. The saddles are also set to the same distance on both bridges, ie both are set to the intonation, E saddle closest to back of ther bridge and each saddle slightly further forward after that.
The Gotoh is chunkier but less than 1mm taller than the stock bridge. Would such a small increment have an effect? The Gotoh also has grooves for the saddle's grub screws while the stock bridge does not so the saddles are pretty stable where the stock ones slide a little when you restring.

The springs and screws on the Gotoh are more substantial than the stock and the spring on the G string is not at full stretch so it's all held together very well and nothing is at one extreme or the other on either bridge.

Thanks for the advice so far guys, it's much appreciated.