Prostheta Posted May 6, 2015 Share Posted May 6, 2015 Local dude Veijo Rautia makes proper thermo-formed cases with duplicated internals unlike Kent/Aaron's which are made in a simple epoxy mould. Veijo ("vay-yo") also reproduces the MB-1E, MB-II, MB-III, etc. so you have options. Last I discussed with Aaron is that he would "throw a couple of stock coils in" which says "approximation" rather than "reproduction". http://www.rautiaguitars.net/aria-pro-ii.html Cleaning the varitone is a good idea, however since the "fault" is common to all positions on the varitone, I suspect component age on the resistors/caps. PITA to replace them though! I'm trying to simplify making replacement varitones if worst comes to the worst. It's important to correctly identify the fault (if it indeed is one) first of course. I genuinely suspect it is because the varitone makes the tone very very deep and perceptually quieter. Any chance of a sound clip? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted May 6, 2015 Share Posted May 6, 2015 Additionally, I sell repro preamps loaded with the best components for the job. Mine was the one pictured earlier on in this thread. You can easily make one from parts from Maplin for half the price of course. It's no secret that I make a bit of profit off them, however that all goes towards keeping ProjectGuitar.com online so it's all in a good cause anyway. :-) When you build your own, ditch the 4558. They are seriously crap. Even a TL072 is better, and don't buy into any of the JRC4558 mojo crap hanging over from the Tube Screamer crowd either! You'll want either a Molex KK header or a TE CST-100. Failing that, a simple break-off header pin row should work too. Also also, ditch the tantalum capacitors. The guy who made his own homebrew preamp re-used tantalums, and for no good reason. The originals were like match heads (nice old 70s tech) when they failed and I've head stories of smoking BBs in SB-1000s. Modern tantalums are better, but still explode when reversed in circuit. Simple electrolytics do the job of supply line buffering and supply noise rejection. Also also also, that is why people report "clicks" on their v2 (1980-86) SB-1000s in time with the LED. Those tantalums degrade and allow fluctuations on the supply from the LED blinker to affect the BB circuit. Tock tock tock tock.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norris Posted May 6, 2015 Share Posted May 6, 2015 As I said it's low volume even with the varitone switched (and that switch has just been replaced too as the toggle had snapped off) so I think it's either the pickup or the black box at fault. Last night I had it through my Fender Rumble 500 combo at what would normally be deafening volume. I'll measure the resistance of the pickup when I get home tonight. It wouldn't be difficult to make a new black box either (and a sight cheaper for a diagnostic test) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norris Posted May 6, 2015 Share Posted May 6, 2015 Hmmm... measuring the resistance of the pickup looks like it's open circuit, but if it is how on earth is it making any noise at all? Admittedly my multi-meter could probably do with a new battery, but it's not measuring a resistance on the pickup when it does if I touch the probes (i.e. my resistance) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted May 6, 2015 Share Posted May 6, 2015 (edited) If the pickup is in circuit, you're measuring the resistance of the coils in parallel with the rest of the circuit. In isolation it should be something around 11,8kOhm off the top of my head. Edited May 6, 2015 by Prostheta Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norris Posted May 6, 2015 Share Posted May 6, 2015 The black box is unplugged so I should be measuring just the resistance of the pickup coil. I was getting a reading on the maximum scale of my meter but realised I was touching both probes. When I measured without touching them I couldn't get a reading. It still makes a very quiet sound though and not intermittently either Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted May 6, 2015 Share Posted May 6, 2015 If that's the case, pickup it is. I genuinely am confused as to the number of these i hear going down. The epoxy should preserve it until proton decay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 I was thinking about this today....I'm only speaking from memory here, so bear with me. The MB-1E had a four-conductor-and-shield cable. I would think it worthwhile checking each individual coil for objective comparison. They are configured in series, so each coil should be around half of the 11,8kOhm total DCR. Two of the wires are connected which is the common point between the coils. A fun addition to an SB-1000 would be a second DPDT toggle to reconfigure the pickup in series and parallel. Not heard of anybody doing this yet. That's sort of beside the point though.... The issue not being intermittent almost rules out a problem with the pickup cable. Otherwise, it does sound like the pickup has bitten the big one. Sucks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norris Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 I tried to measure the full coil (red & white leads) and each individually (red to black & white to black) and couldn't get a reading off either. Anyway I've fired an enquiry off to Armstrong so I'll see what they come up with Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 (edited) Wow, that surprises me. That would imply that both coils died! I guess the epoxy wasn't impervious to those damp conditions. Just re-reviewed the thread. I didn't read your posts Pete, so I feel dumb for having repeated most of what you'd already said. All together now...."duhhhhhh" I'd genuinely consider Rautia Guitars' pickups over Aaron Armstrongs. I guess I was somewhat put off his pickups by our previous discussion ending with a fairly dismissive implication of throwing random coils in what was meant to be a reproduction pickup in all respects, not just in appearance. Half measures sort of bug me, but that's probably Aspergers for you. Edited May 7, 2015 by Prostheta Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloodaxe Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 Yeah, certainly sounds like a dead/dying pickup. My original MB-1E did exactly the same - low, fuzzy output & then nothing. If I were in the market now, I'd definitely go to Rautia for a replacement - there's not much difference in price & you'd get as near a replica as is possible. I went down the Armstrong route at the time as they were the only people offering a replacement. They're good, but not quite there - don't seem to have the same degree of mid-hump that gives an SB its signature tone, & I suspect the output is a tad lower as well. Pete. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 I've been GASing to build a ZZB 5-string Black n' Gold for far too long. Certainly won't happen with Veijo's pickups however a 4-string version wouldn't be out of the question. That said, the question could be, "batwing?". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norris Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 I got a reply from Aaron. If your pickup has a brass plate on the bottom (as some of them have apparently) it might be repairable. If it's epoxy it definitely can't. He also says they wind each pickup to order so it can be authentic or a bit hotter. I read a TB thread from someone who had a hotter wind and said it made the varitone a lot more usable especially at the muddy end of the scale. But then I quite like how it used to sound. Anyway, pickup out tonight to inspect its bottom ,,, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norris Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 It does seem a bit strange if both coils have died I was looking at the Aria UK site earlier and I'm sure I saw some 5ers in the current crop of SB re-issues Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norris Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 [quote name='Prostheta' timestamp='1431015858' post='2766952'] I've been GASing to build a ZZB 5-string Black n' Gold for far too long. Certainly won't happen with Veijo's pickups however a 4-string version wouldn't be out of the question. That said, the question could be, "batwing?". [/quote] It's got to be pointy imho. A batwing on a ZZB just wouldn't look right. Make it even pointier Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norris Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 Well I took the pickup out. It's definitely filled with epoxy and I can't get a DC resistance reading at all. So it looks like a replacement pickup - which one? I'm still confused as to how it could make any sound at all with an open circuit pickup. Oh and if you're interested the serial number is 004087 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 (edited) Yeah, they're soapbars IIRC. Same as their current "MB-V" pickups in the SB-1000s, there is no guarantee that they'll resemble the originals. Hell, an MM-5 would be just as awesome, especially if I got a ceramic version and gold-plated the steel slugs. That seems to be Aaron's standard boilerplate response to APII pickup queries. Hotter doesn't make sense, because overwinding raises output and alters the resonant peak. In addition it loses top end rather than gains it. I'll feed back into this thread when I monkey around with a replacement varitone. Alternative values are probably a better solution. I'd go with Veijo Rautia's pickups any day. They are the real deal in terms of like-for-like replacement. Aaron's are rough approximations, however don't take my word for it. Hell, do. Edited May 7, 2015 by Prostheta Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norris Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 Lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloodaxe Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 [quote name='Prostheta' timestamp='1431015858' post='2766952'] I've been GASing to build a ZZB 5-string Black n' Gold for far too long. Certainly won't happen with Veijo's pickups however a 4-string version wouldn't be out of the question. That said, the question could be, "batwing?". [/quote] Batwing? On a ZZB? You been at the pickled herrings again? Pointy. Either as per the RSB-5 or maybe the XRB:— [IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v40/Bloodaxe/Bass/RSB-Deluxe-03.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]http://mla-s2-p.mlstatic.com/bajo-aria-pro-ii-xrb-japon-tfender-ibanez-washburn-yamaha-4658-MLA3808247269_022013-O.jpg[/IMG] P. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 Blech. The XRB reminds me too much of the Jackson Performer style. Works better as a five though. It would have to be reversed of course. The RSB is really nice, but there's something very "afterthoughtish" about a 4+1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norris Posted May 10, 2015 Share Posted May 10, 2015 Btw, I've now started a thread in the Build Diaries forum of the restoration of my SB-1000. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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