Question about minor ii-Vs

[lobematt]

Hey guys!

I thought I had a grip on the theory behind these but the more I find out about them the less sure I am!

If the chords are D-7b5 - Galt - C-7

I thought the appropriate scales would be D Locrian, G altered scale, C Dorian

I'm currently going through Mark Levine's Jazz Theory book and he says that to think of them all as in the key of C minor is wrong and really should be thought of as

F melodic minor - Ab MM - C MM , or is that just if the C is a Cmin/maj?

I'm just looking for someone to try and clarify this for me and the possible scale choice or if I should be thinking more key not chord/scale?

Hope this makes sense!

[Faithless]

I'd strongly suggest you think in terms of chord-tones, not scales. Chord tones are the primary notes that specify the harmony.
In this way you would flesh-out all the chord tones in each position on the bass (there are five different positions for each chord, starting from the first position on the bass up to the 12 fret).
After familiarizing yourself with chord-tones you would then add approach notes to those chord-tones, say, half-step below approach or h-s above the chord tone.

all the best
L

[TKenrick]

My preference is, like Faithless, to approach things using chord tones, but I know loads of players get great results from the chord/scale approach.


As far as the ii-V-i goes, if we're thinking of the Cm chord as tonic minor then things might sound a bit more 'settled' by using Cm6 or Cm(maj7) instead of Cm7 and use C melodic minor over it.

G altered = Ab melodic minor, so your only decision here is based on whether you prefer to think about the scale as 'G altered' (parallel thinking) or as 'melodic minor starting on b9 of a dominant chord' (derivative thinking).

Using F melodic minor over Dm7b5 gives you D locrian natural 2, so the decision is between having b9 or natural 9 (Eb or E natural). My preference would be E natural, but experiment with both.

[lobematt]

Ok thanks for that guys

[visog]

Depends on that pesky G alt chord and which alterations are in play, i.e. b/#9 and b/#5 on top of the G7?

[Kevin Glasgow]

There are a whole bunch of scales you can use when playing over a minor ii V i.

Here are few options which I like to use :-

ii : Locrian, locrian #2, whole-half diminished

V : Altered Scale, phrygian-dominant, half-whole diminished, whole-tone

i : Dorian, aeolian, melodic minor, harmonic minor, melodic minor #4


Some of these can be a little fiddly but you can definitely get some really nice sounds from them.

When I use the whole-half diminished on the ii chord I tend to use it in conjunction with the half-whole diminished on the V chord. They're actually two different modes of the same diminished scale so you can just treat it as one scale for both chords.

The melodic minor #4 is another weird one but it can sound really cool. It can work well on any minor chord. I find that it works best if you resolve it to one of the other more consonant minor scales.

The phrygian-dominant on the V chord is a really important one to check out and is one which is often overlooked. If you use it in conjunction with the locrian mode on the ii chord and the aeolian mode on the i chord you'll end up with really 'in'/old school sounding ii V i.

These are just some of the scales which I find useful but there're plenty more out there worth experimenting with.

Hope that's of some help