Filling in the gaps...teachers, exercises and book ideas please!

[AndyBass]

I've been playing grown up bass for a couple of years and over the last year I've tried to learn a bit more about music, having spent many years playing in bands relying on a good ear and drunken luck.

Until recently I had occasional lessons and they improved my intonantion and got me started with the bow but I think I needed more structure to them, and recently my bands have become busier so I've sunk into root-fifth and 12 bar slapping rather than trying to improve.

One struggle is translating notation to the fingerboard - I can read the music in a fairly clunky way but then finding the notes is slow going too as Ive always played more by "patterns" and ear than notes.

Another is understanding composition. I've learned various basslines which just make no sense to me based on the theory I know, ie they broadly conform to a scale/key but then throw in notes that don't belong. And if you can just stick any old note in, what's the point of a key, etc? Surely it just becomes a free for all driven by ear..?

I absolutely love bass and play every day, but I'm just playing the same old stuff at the minute and not pushing myself. Ultimately I want to take grades in bass as I need that structure and indication of progress.

So..I have a number of knowledge gaps I need to fill. Any recommendations of exercises, books or teachers in the Sheffield area that could help are most welcome! Cheers.

[Rabbie]

Hi Andy, teachers are really going to hate me for this, but personally I found the Artistworks online lessons with John Patitucci absolutely excellent and A LOT cheaper than a teacher. They will fill in the theoretical gaps you mention here, no bother! Of course if you want to be a serious professional orchestral and jazz player, you will need to go to a teacher or school, however for the serious hobbyist and the popular music player, Patitucci's lessons are fantastic. Patitucci school teaches mainly jazz, but that's more in the advanced section, whilst in the beginner and intermediate curricula you deal with easier jazz but also latin and blues. I came from guitar and electric bass and I needed to get better at upright bass for a project: well I was enrolled for 6 months and I think it really worked (ok, some may argue it didn't), plus getting personalised feedback from John Patitucci himself is surreal but wonderful: he's such a nice guy and soooo good that I don't think you'll ever find a teacher as knowledgeable and good as him. You don't have to send a video if you don't want to, you can just watch the lessons over and over again and there are theory lessons as well, which will work for you. Honestly I truly recommend it, especially at $120 for 6 months: that's 3 lessons with a teacher...
Please forgive me teachers: I understand that the wannabe double bass professional must get a real life teacher, but for those of us who are serious enough, but have got other commitments, plus not so much cash, the Artistworks online lessons are great...

[MandShef]

Hi Andy, as you know I'm a fellow bassist in Sheffield. I've been toying with the idea of doing a bit of teaching (I've got my Gr8, did a music degree, and play regularly with an orchestra), however, I would teach Classical style as that's what I know, and I'm not sure that's what you're after? When you say you want to learn composition and do the grades are you meaning rock/jazz school? I know a good jazz bass teacher (but they're not so hot on bow work). Or, if you wanted an experienced rather than a beginner Classical teacher, then I have lessons with a teacher from Huddersfield who I'd recommend (she trained at Royal Northern School of Music and is a professional player).


[quote name='AndyBass' timestamp='1363816543' post='2018240']
Another is understanding composition. I've learned various basslines which just make no sense to me based on the theory I know, ie they broadly conform to a scale/key but then throw in notes that don't belong. And if you can just stick any old note in, what's the point of a key, etc? Surely it just becomes a free for all driven by ear..?
[/quote]

The notes that don't belong are called 'accidentals' and they usually perform a purpose e.g. to change the mood of a piece of music. I like playing Moonlight Sonata on the piano, and there's a really good example in there where the G#'s (it's in the key of C#m) change into G naturals, and the mood/colour of the music changes dramatically (becomes darker) even thought you're pretty much playing the same pattern as previous bars. But the main feel of the piece is in the main key.

Whatever you decide, lots of luck with it, and let us know how you get on!

[zero9]

It's tough when you get into a bit of a rut, especially as it seems your also busy.

A teacher would be the best idea, to make best use of the little time you have available and ensure your maximising the time you do have for practice with exercises which develop your weaker areas. A good teacher will be able to spot these.

If you don't want to go for a teacher, and if you're struggling finding the notes on the fingerboard and how they relate to each other, I would suggest playing scale exercises. With time and practice, you'll hopefully start to become more familiar with them. This will also help intonation as well as develop your 'ear'. Move from scale to scale using something like the cycle of fifths. Once you get to know the different scales, where the notes are on the bass, and how these relate to particular chords, it should get easier.

Hope this helps.

[MandShef]

+1 for scale exercises.

Here is another tutor in our area (Doncaster this time). A fellow bassist in my orchestra used to go to her, and says she's v good:

[url="http://www.doublebassprofiles.com/profile-dionne-clow?page=teaching"]http://www.doublebassprofiles.com/profile-dionne-clow?page=teaching[/url]

As for books, you could always try the dreaded Simandl (dismissed as a bit boring by many, but it thoroughly goes through all the notes and positions inc a finger chart against the written notes in the beginning). Alternatively, there is Double Bass Solos 1 (K Hartley) which at least has recognisable tunes to play. The music is split up in relation to the position it's played in, and before the noted music there is a pic of the fingerboard showing where those notes are. If Classical is not your thing, then the rock school books might be worth a look - they have tab underneath the notated music so if you're used to tab that might be useful?

[sarah thomas]

Niel Tarlton's book of scale exercises is good, too.

[fatback]

I found it's a combination of different resources that helps most.

Books: Micheal Moore - Bass Method' (Very systematic). Rufus Reid - 'evolving bassist' (inspirational and great for getting reading going.)

Vids: Rabbath - Art of the Bow (totally the biz imo and inspiring too); Ed Friedland - 'Jazz upright bass' (another systematic one)

Simandl nearly made me quit, and for that I'll never forgive him. There's something wrong with assuming that you can't do better than a method developed more than a century ago. Anyway, once you're into scales there's tons of stuff out there. Everybody praises Tarlton, but you'll make your own mind up.

I'd say learn theory as a separate exercise altogether. There are loads of good sources on harmony. I've found stuff on jazz improvisation to be most interesting and helpful, even though I don't play jazz. I suspect that getting a keyboard is part of that process, and I guess I'll be doing that too.

Where I'm gonna get the years to do all this is what I'd like to know.

[AndyBass]

Thanks everyone for your suggestions! Really grateful to get some genuine advice and ideas in response to what was probably a bit of a frustrated whinge! I'm not sure what the right answer is for me at the minute - though I think we're all agreed scale exercises are the place to start. I'll definitely look into all recommendations and see what works. Thanks!

[tinyd]

I have to say that although the Simandl book is pretty hard going, it really sorted out my intonation. If you have even a passing interest in jazz, then [url="http://www.amazon.com/Jazz-Bass-Book-Technique-Tradition/dp/0879307161"]John Goldsby's Jazz Bass Book [/url]is a real pleasure - it has plenty to read about the players and tradition, plus it has a good amount of theory and the musical examples are really nice to work through

[fatback]

To take some of the boredom out of scales, and to try and make things a bit more relevant to my band playing, i've started taking a different approach that's a bit more interesting.

What I've started doing is taking a major key and playing the scales, arpeggios and modes for each diatonic chord using as much of the board as possible.

Our singer/songwriter favours certain keys and I'm starting with those. Maybe the feeling of relevance is an illusion, but at east it's systematic.

Anybody else do this?

[FLoydElgar]

I will point out the obvious... Lots of listening to different Orchestras, bands, musicians and create an obsession...
Scales are important, but not the end of everything if you can't play them straight away! Make sure you get them in...
Also, if you rush you will F*uck up... I've sat with exercise 4 of Duncan McTier's daily exercises... for 2 months now... Let me tell you... Take care in the small aspects of your playing and for a fact, it will improve your playing tendfolds!! When I tackle sonta's or a new piece my intonation and shifts are with confidence and perfect intonation. All because I take care with the small things in my exercises... pay off, so when I'm playing the music I only have to worry about music and not the mechanics behind it...

Edited March 27, 2013 by FLoydElgar