adjustable bridge

[lockpicker1969]

i was thinking about getting one of these

[url="http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ADJUSTABLE-DOUBLE-BASS-BRIDGE-MAPLE-WITH-SCREW-FRENCH-STYLE-3-4-4-4-UK-SELLER-/321060034593?pt=UK_Musical_Instruments_Sting_Instruments&var=&hash=item4ac0ab5821"]http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ADJUSTABLE-DOUBLE-BASS-BRIDGE-MAPLE-WITH-SCREW-FRENCH-STYLE-3-4-4-4-UK-SELLER-/321060034593?pt=UK_Musical_Instruments_Sting_Instruments&var=&hash=item4ac0ab5821[/url]

has anyone else on here used one or got one

[ubassman]

Personally I don't really 'get' the popularity of adjustable bridges ? Come from the school of thought that if you know the sort of action you want then why would you want to adjust ( unless your bass is dimensionally unstable)? I suppose if you are not so sure then its a good way to experiment but remember just as you get the G string action perfect , the other 3 will also have moved ! - its not like theres an independent action for each string that you get with a quality bass guitar.

The higher the bridge the louder the bass. So I guess one way to look at an adjustable bridges is as 'volume button' which is fine if you are playing unplugged and need a bit more kick to your sound ( and don't mind the raised action) ...but not really relevant if you are going through an amp!

I haven't seen very many classical players with these type of bridges and it definitely seems to rob some of the tone particularly for arco playing (IMHO anyway !). The vibrations seems to be sweeter going through pure maple rather than being broken and adulterated with a threaded metal screw. Seems to be something that is more popular with Jazz players where variety of texture and tone may not be so precious. All my basses have a fixed bridge and its just not something that I think about ever - the set up stays the same day in day out.

For me I would prefer to preserve the natural tone as far as possible. [b][u]The [/u][/b]way to tailor the action of each string is to make careful adjustments to the notches in the bridge !

....I imagine that you will now get a flood of people advising why an adjustable bridge is so brilliant !!

Edited February 3, 2013 by ubassman

[TPJ]

I've had both and prefer adjustable for a few reasons. The first being that I use a Fishman Full Circle It's been the best all 'rounder pickup on the bass so far. Secondly, I've tried 4 or 5 different types of strings on the bass and being able to adjust the action height has helped find the best sound for the strings. Also, I once had a run of many gigs in a row and towards the end was getting tired quickly so dropping the action helped see us through the rest of the gigs.

If you have found your perfect string/action for your bass (I am envious) then a fixed bridge would be fine.

Edited February 4, 2013 by TPJ

[thisnameistaken]

[quote name='TPJ' timestamp='1359972847' post='1962577']
If you have found your perfect string/action for your bass (I am envious) then a fixed bridge would be fine.
[/quote]

This is the way I thought about it too. I've got an adjustable bridge on one bass but not the other. It would be nice to try the other bass with a higher action but I'd need another bridge fitting to do that. It's certainly cheaper to experiment with an adjustable one.

[sarah thomas]

I have no experience of an adjustable bridge. I was thinking of having one fitted but my luthier advised against it, saying that they tend to slip. I want a big, warm sound and having lessons from an Alexander Technique teacher has helped enormously with this. The way I brought my left hand up to the neck was tensing my shoulder muscle and in turn, deadening the sound and making me ache after a while. Now when my shoulder starts to ache at least I know why! So I'm happy with my fixed bridge.

[ubassman]

[quote name='sarah thomas' timestamp='1359978686' post='1962704']
I have no experience of an adjustable bridge. I was thinking of having one fitted but my luthier advised against it, saying that they tend to slip. I want a big, warm sound and having lessons from an Alexander Technique teacher has helped enormously with this. The way I brought my left hand up to the neck was tensing my shoulder muscle and in turn, deadening the sound and making me ache after a while. Now when my shoulder starts to ache at least I know why! So I'm happy with my fixed bridge.
[/quote]

Sarah ...interesting ! ...sounds like a topic for a new thread ! 'Alexander Technique for tone production'

Edited February 4, 2013 by ubassman

[fatback]

[quote name='TPJ' timestamp='1359972847' post='1962577']
I've had both and prefer adjustable for a few reasons. The first being that I use a Fishman Full Circle It's been the best all 'rounder pickup on the bass so far. Secondly, I've tried 4 or 5 different types of strings on the bass and being able to adjust the action height has helped find the best sound for the strings. Also, I once had a run of many gigs in a row and towards the end was getting tired quickly so dropping the action helped see us through the rest of the gigs.

If you have found your perfect string/action for your bass (I am envious) then a fixed bridge would be fine.
[/quote]

This.

For relative beginners being able to experiment with heights and strings is hugely useful and helped me a lot. Nor do i think that amplified in a band context the effect on tone is noticeable. It seems they do alter the tone though, but the effect depends on the adjuster material etc.

For those that enjoy this kind of thing:

[url="http://iwk.mdw.ac.at/?page_id=99&sprache=2"]http://iwk.mdw.ac.at...id=99&sprache=2[/url]

Edited February 4, 2013 by fatback

[ubassman]

+1 agreed ...good device to experiment with. Great link - looks like all the answers are there !! 'Get out of jail' Medieval laws on cats and now this technical study ...impressed Fatback !! ....mightily impressed!!

[mtroun]

[quote name='ubassman' timestamp='1359932038' post='1962350']
I haven't seen very many classical players with these type of bridges and it definitely seems to rob some of the tone particularly for arco playing (IMHO anyway !).
[/quote]

In my experience, I have rarely met a classical player who doesn't have an adjustable bridge on their bass. Most luthiers seem to fit adjustable bridges as standard on new basses and all the basses restored by the Contrabass Shoppe are fitted out with adjustable bridges - they mainly provide instruments to orchestral players.

I spoke to luthier Martyn Bailey about adjustable bridges some time ago and he said they have absolutely no impact on tone and wooden adjusters are purely an aesthetic choice. I'm inclined to agree as pretty much all the nicest instruments I've ever played had adjustable bridges on them. Having a bridge cut to the right size for the bass and setup at the right angle is more likely to have an impact than the difference a pair of adjusters would make, IMO.



[quote name='ubassman' timestamp='1359932038' post='1962350']
Personally I don't really 'get' the popularity of adjustable bridges ? Come from the school of thought that if you know the sort of action you want then why would you want to adjust ( unless your bass is dimensionally unstable)? I suppose if you are not so sure then its a good way to experiment but remember just as you get the G string action perfect , the other 3 will also have moved ! - its not like theres an independent action for each string that you get with a quality bass guitar.
[/quote]

The whole point of having an adjustable bridge is to be able to maintain your desired action through seasonal changes as the wood expands and contracts.

[fatback]

[quote name='ubassman' timestamp='1359996836' post='1963226']
+1 agreed ...good device to experiment with. Great link - looks like all the answers are there !! 'Get out of jail' Medieval laws on cats and now this technical study ...impressed Fatback !! ....mightily impressed!!
[/quote]

Too much time on my hands

[ubassman]

[color=#222222]Could do with some help identifying the adjustable bridges at these points of the following clips:- [/color]

[color=#FF0000][b]3.48[/b][/color] [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QgZ_-f7pVk4"]Rinat Ibragimov Principle double bassist London Symphony Orchestra[/url]

[color=#FF0000][b]1.38[/b][/color] [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XNcXRys0Lq4&list=PL92B9DB9621DAAC54&index=16"]Klaus Stoll Principle Berlin Phil.[/url]

[color=#FF0000][b]0.02 [/b][/color][url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t1m8aLIGqtw"]Bozo Paradzik solo-ist[/url]

[color=#ff0000][b]0.04[/b][/color] [color=#222222][url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5x-_EiW2BZs"] Duncan Mctier - professor of double bass at the royal academy of music [/url][/color]

[color=#FF0000][b]0.05[/b][/color] [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5EPcv2ouuRE"][color=#222222]Gary Karr+ Han Han Cho[/color][/url]


Isn't it all a matter of personal choice ?! Interesting though that the conclusion of Fatback's research paper link concludes:-

[b] [color=#808080]Conclusions of the Listening Test[/color][/b]

[color=#808080]Bridge height adjusters generally make a substantial audible difference in sound compared to a massive (solid) bridge. There is tonal variance among models of bridge height adjusters depending on the frequency of the note played. These differences are more audible with bowed tones than with pizzicato.[/color]

[color=#808080]Conclusions[/color]
[color=#808080]Preliminary research showed that there is no previous literature on the acoustical characteristics of double bass bridge height adjusters.[/color]
[color=#808080]Local and international surveys showed current tendencies in adjuster use. Between 60-80% of North American bassists use them, while they are [b]practically absent[/b] [b]from the European music scene[/b]. Wood adjusters are preferred by bassists for tonal and aesthetic reasons, but aluminum models are more commonly used.[/color]
[color=#808080]A test was prepared with a massive bridge and six types of bridge height adjusters. Digital analysis shows that bridge height adjusters make a significant difference in pizzicato decay time, but vary irregularly throughout the range of the double bass. [/color]
[color=#808080]Listening tests indicate that all types of bridge height adjusters cause an audible difference in sound compared to a bridge with no adjusters, and that individual models and materials have unique tonal characteristics.[/color]

Edited February 4, 2013 by ubassman

[ubassman]

Anyway, to answer the original question, completely agree that its worth considering an adjustable bridge if you are thinking of experimenting with taking the action as low as you can - a low action soon shows up imperfections in the fingerboard which may need 'shooting' and you can just turn the adjuster dial to get out of the 'danger zone'. As mtroun rightly points out a bit of seasonal adjustment can result in a buzzing fingerboard when you are at the edges of tolerance ! Just be aware that from the research and from personal experience the sound of your bass will also adjust ...which for some may seem hugely significant and for others not really relevant !

I suspect that jazz players will pretty much always favour an adjustable bridge setting a/. because they are often amplified, and b/. because the action is usually also preferred low for ease of playability.
Good luck with whatever you opt for !

Edited February 5, 2013 by ubassman

[mtroun]

Re: the absence of adjusters. Yes, probably among older players. Having been around the music colleges of the UK I don't see many young players, jazz or classical, who don't have bridge adjusters on their instruments as they are pretty much standard fit by luthiers.

I find your comments seem like an attempt to have a snipe at jazz players who apparently don't need their instrument to produce a quality tone. I'm sure bridge adjusters are one of the many factors that can have a variable difference in your tone, such as: string height (fairly massive difference and probably why players fit adjusters to get the optimum setup) tailpiece material (apparently plastic sounds better than ebony but most stick with tradition), strings (how many players compromise based on tuning stability or ease of bowing, I find many basses set up for classical playing have 'deader' sounding strings such as Belcanto or Flexocor, do they sound as sweet under the bow when under control as plain gut?), bridge material, soundpost and bassbar setup (a lot of older instruments are in need of drastic rebuilding to get the best possible sound), the instrument's spike (some use a wooden spike to preserve tone) fingerboard planing and of course the actual wood the instrument is made of, not to mention the player's individual technique?

I'm not saying all these things don't have an effect but advising someone not to get adjusters based on their perceived effect on tone and then saying it doesn't matter for jazz players, playing through an amp doesn't seem like a logical thought process. Jazz players, playing pizzicato (or indeed with the bow) spend a lot of time on their acoustic sound production and get judged on the standard of their sound. Amplifiers can affect the sound adversely of course, but ideally we're looking to transfer the sound that we've worked very hard to produce as closely as possible when we have to use an amplifier. As a jazz player I actually favour a higher action than a lot of classical players I know because I'm aiming for a) a big acoustic sound and an amplified big acoustic sound.

With adjusters fitted to my bass I have been gradually raising the action of my instrument to get a bigger sound as I build up the necessary callouses to play with such a big action. I'm sure any negative impact the adjusters have on the tone of my bass would probably be a case of striking the string slightly lower down with bow or fingers to achieve the desired tone.

To the OP, your first port of call should be a teacher, then a luthier. As ubassman rightly points out, a bass's action can be adjusted with a file. Knowing what action you really prefer can be a bit of a pain to find out (I had a bit of trouble over xmas, didn't play for a over a week and suddenly found my instrument very hard to take on) but a teacher can steer you in the right direction, perhaps.

[ubassman]

Mtroun No snipes at jazz players, classical or indeed young players...or old ....just observations made in the friendly spirit of this forum! Brought a smile to my face when you mentioned building up your calluses so as to pump out the volume with a higher action ...as Rufus Reid says 'Callouses are a bass players best friend!" ( I have 2 days of solid rehearsal this weekend and never a truer word said!)

I don't know of any double bass player who doesn't strive for 'that perfect tone' but I do find that as a player of both jazz and classical, the process for both evolves in different ways and so its also really interesting to see the way that you are making your bridge adjusters work for you to go progressively higher with your jazz playing ...if it works for [u]you[/u] ...then its right for [u]you[/u] !

[mtroun]

In fairness, it has gone down as well as up. Like many things, it's a compromise (frankly my current amplification situation is too much of a compromise in the direction of my ailing wallet) There are also definitely no magic bullets either, I'm thinking of the OP who is considering getting bridge adjusters, quite rightly I think before anyone can offer advice for or against, we need to know why they feel the need to alter their action. I definitely feel there is no use thinking 'if my action was higher/lower I would be able to produce the perfect tone from my bass/be able to play more accurately' as there are too many other variables. I only raised the action on my bass because when I pulled on the strings they were crapping out... There is a point when it all becomes too much hard work with a high action and your playing suffers. Going back to Alexander technique, it's important to be relaxed playing the bass, often the biggest sound doesn't feel like a lot of effort but involves pulling the string just the right amount.

One more thing (and I'm aware this is moving progressively more away from the topic) but you've got to know what kind of sound you're aiming for in your head. As one of my teachers told me as I quizzed her about bow technique, 'let your ears be your guide'.

[icastle]

[quote name='mtroun' timestamp='1360069553' post='1964277']
I find your comments seem like an attempt to have a snipe at jazz players who apparently don't need their instrument to produce a quality tone. [/quote]

However, as ubassman is also a jazz player, that seems very unlikely to me.

[quote name='mtroun' timestamp='1360079586' post='1964500']
As one of my teachers told me as I quizzed her about bow technique, 'let your ears be your guide'.
[/quote]

Now that is a lesson that should universally be taught to all bassists regardless of genre or instrument type.