Bobby K Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 Hello again chaps Having just sold my lovely 'ray 5 fretless I've decided to give an old de-fretted bass a bit of a spruce up and I'm in the process of finishing the board. The board is rosewood and has been sanded down nice and smooth with a radius block. Rather than go down the epoxy road, I've got hold of some Rustins plastic coating. After sanding, the board is looking very light coloured. I'm tempted to rub some lemon oil on it to darken it again but not sure if I should do so, before applying the Rustins... Also thought about getting some black wood dye and "ebonizing" the board a little. Once again, not sure if I should do so before applying the Rustins... I'd leave it at the natural wood, but I want to use rounds on the bass, so thought the Rustins would provide a bit more hardness to the board and would be a simpler alternative to epoxy. Just need to know if it's ok to darken the board before applying the Rustins... cheers Bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ou7shined Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 Don't oil it before applying your Rustins as it will knacker it for applying any coating. Besides it will end up looking just the same without it. You probably won't need to dye it either as the coating should deepen the colour anyway. If you want to test it first use the area just behind the nut. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beer of the Bass Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 Give LawrenceH on here a poke - he's recently done a nice job of Plastic Coating on his fretless and might have some pointers... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby K Posted July 23, 2012 Author Share Posted July 23, 2012 Cheers Rich, I'd guessed as much, just wanted to be sure Nice one B of the B, I'll check in with Lawrence and see how he got on.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Heeley Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 Rustins data sheet [url="http://www.rustins.eu/ProdData/Plastic%20Coating%20data%20mar10.pdf"]http://www.rustins.eu/ProdData/Plastic%20Coating%20data%20mar10.pdf[/url] says wood is ok being dyed beforehand (of course using only Rustins dye...others may be incompatible).Their wood dye is solvent-based (hydrocarbon/naphtha, white spirit, etc.) so avoid water-based dyes & acrylics and you will be fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LawrenceH Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 Hi Bob, sorry for the delay I've been away and only just saw your PM. Anyhow, I'd second the advice about not oiling the wood - it will likely mess up the coating and in any case it's totally unnecessary as the plastic coating itself will restore the natural lustre nicely. I think I used a bit of naptha-like spirits from my lab to clean the board (probably xylene) and it's probably worth a quick wipe to degrease, but I think you can overdo this. I found with my 'test' neck that cleaning too much eventually started leaching the colour from the neck along with the wood oil. The rustins was fairly forgiving to work with once I started using thinner, before this I found it was too thick and set too quickly trapping any bubbles, which are easy to form when brushing. I'd suggest starting with at least 20% added thinner. Mixing up in a glass jar and then leaving in the fridge for a bit with foil over was a good way of getting rid of excess bubbles at the beginning. Btw I used a radius sanding block for finishing, and it's worth getting the neck dead smooth before adding the coating as it's a b&*(^&r correcting even minor errors afterwards, as I learnt on my test neck. The plastic coating seems to shrink a bit over time a bit like nitro, so it starts flat but then little pores/dips begin to form if the wood hadn't been finished smooth. I'd even suggest trying the rustins grain filler if it's a particularly porous bit of rosewood. I waited about 2 weeks then sanded up to 1500 then T cut to finish. It was pretty mirror-like but to do a really good job I'd say go to at least 2000 first and use a higher quality 3M rubbing compound. Having said that the board already has snail trails from the roundwounds so probably not worth it. Only a very very minor cosmetic issue so far but I'll be interested to see how it holds up long-term. Hope that is useful, let me know if there's anything else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lettsguitars Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 I'd guess that 'plastic' would not be any harder than the wood itself. Epoxy is the proper way to do it although a decent rosewood shouldn't b any problem anyway. You can also use super glue if you can stand the smell. Any stain properly dried wouldn't cause any issues as ar as i know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Heeley Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 it's not really 'plastic', its 2-part Urea Formaldehyde resin, not quite as hard as epoxy coating but close to it, and harder than most woods in terms of surface scratch resistance and point impact. Good advice from LawrenceH about thinning and chilling it, the longer the curing reaction is delayed, the more chance the air bubbles have of escaping. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby K Posted July 26, 2012 Author Share Posted July 26, 2012 (edited) Thanks for getting back Lawrence, Letts and Al - i'd spent more time watching my inbox than watching this thread, so only saw this today. What sort of thinner should I add to the Rustins? - and do I add this once the Rustins has been mixed with the hardner that came with it? Also, how many coats of Rustins did you put on? I'm not too precious about the outcome of this, just tidying up what's already there really. In some ways this is pretty much my "test neck" - as i wouldn't attempt this on a more valuable bass! One thing i should've stated earlier is that I had to do a bit of a filling job on part of the board. Some pratt who used to own the bass decided to do a Billy Sheehan-esque scalloping job on some of the frets up the dusty end - so I've filled these in with wood filler and sanded the board with a radius block so the filled sections are now flush with the board and it's all neat and smooth Only problem is, the colour of the filler stands out like a sore thumb! This is partly why I was originally asking about darkening the board before the Rustins went on - I wanted to try and mask the filled sections somehow If they can't be masked, I can live with it Edited July 26, 2012 by Bobby K Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Heeley Posted July 27, 2012 Share Posted July 27, 2012 In my post above I included a link to the product data sheet. At the bottom of the data sheet there's reference to their product called [b][font=georgia,serif]Rustins Plastic Coating Thinners[/font][/b]. It's probably a cellulose-based hydrocarbon/solvent mix but if I were you I'd stick to this branded product. You'll need it to clean your brush out as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby K Posted July 27, 2012 Author Share Posted July 27, 2012 Cheers for the link to the data sheet Al I should've read it first, doh! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Heeley Posted July 27, 2012 Share Posted July 27, 2012 Maybe 3 coats is good since it will be thinned it will spread well = thinner layers. First layer will penetrate and seal. Then 2 thin coats to build up some gloss. Allow to cure at least 30 mins - it must be touch-dry. If its thinned and cold the cure time will be longer, but it does go off quite quick. Mix base, hardener together first then add thinner. Keeping them in the fridge slows down the reaction and gives you more time to mix and coat. They say it can be kept 2 days in fridge if mixed and unused but I'd prepare a fresh batch if the job goes over a day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby K Posted July 27, 2012 Author Share Posted July 27, 2012 I'm assuming no need to lightly sand or rub with steel wool in between coats...? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Heeley Posted July 27, 2012 Share Posted July 27, 2012 no-its like a chemical bond to the previous layer, although it hardens quickly it will be too soft to sand, and will scratch it and make it cloudy. It bonds best when fresh and not fully hardened. After final layer, allow to cure for 2 - 3 days, then it is really hardened and ready to buff up if needed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby K Posted July 27, 2012 Author Share Posted July 27, 2012 Ok, thanks Al Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LawrenceH Posted July 28, 2012 Share Posted July 28, 2012 I did rather more than 3 coats but that's because I wasn't using thinners to start with and had to sand back too much (with appropriate annoying waiting periods between). I think I made up about 50ml of the coating per go before adding thinner, which (obviously) made the coats thinner. I'd suggest applying that in several batches about an hour and a half apart, then leaving for the recommended few days (2?) in a well-ventilated warm environment, then repeating at least twice. The thinner I used, I actually mixed up myself because I had the chemicals handy - about 50/50 propanol and methanol I think, but just use the recommended Rustins stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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