Replacement Speakers For Trace 1048 Cab, advice please

[klaw123]

Hi all, I seem to have damaged my Trace 1048 4x10 bass cab and after due consideration think its worth while replacing the speakers. I have found a set of Celestion speakers (new) true to the age of the cab which will be 320 watts total as it should be.

I have also found that I can get the Celestion BL10-200x 10" 200 watt speaker slightly cheaper.

The question is, should I go for the 4x10 200w route or go for the original setup? I intend to power it with a Trace AH150 or other Trace head. The cab would be awsome at 800watts but is is the best thing to do?

Your sage wisdom would be very welcome.

Cheers
Paul

[Mr. Foxen]

Can you pose measurements of the cab in a way that the amount of air in it can be calculated, and the size of the ports in the cab?

[LennyP]

You'd need to figure out why they blew in the first place? Could you be in that situation again if you replaced them with the identical drivers? Of course, there is always the issue of tone to consider. Those Trace drivers had a particular tone which could possibly change with the 200w celestion.

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

[quote name='klaw123' timestamp='1324165095' post='1471506']
he cab would be awsome at 800watts but is is the best thing to do?

[/quote]Driver power ratings are their least significant aspect. What matters are T/S specs ( [url="http://www.eminence.com/support/understanding-loudspeaker-data/"]http://www.eminence....udspeaker-data/[/url]) and frequency response. Driver swapping/replacement is dicey if you don't understand these factors and how to apply them. If you want to preserve your current performance re-coning your blown drivers is the best route. Dropping in new drivers based only on their size and power ratings is a risky proposition.

Edited December 18, 2011 by Bill Fitzmaurice

[klaw123]

Hi all. thanks for your replies, information and offers of help. The speakers now distort everytime you apply a bottom E or add depth/bass to the tone. I borrowed a Hartke 500w amp, used it at a lowish volume but added more depth/bass to the tone. The speakers bottomed out a few times, hence the damage.

Mr Foxen, I cant find the true specs for the current Celestion CT10-80 32ohm speakers, but they are vintage. I have found a replacement set (see info below) but may wish to upgrade and use the Celestion Green Label BL10-200X (see specs below) if the cabinet would be ok for them. I do appreciate the Trace tone from the current drivers and would wish to create a similar sound with the 200w drivers if possible.

The internal dimensions of my cab are (approx) H=60.3cm x W=56.4cm x D=43cm It has a port running across the centre from left to right, the size is W=52.7cm X H=2.5cm. The cab is packed with wadding.

Current speaker info:-The Celestion C10T 10 Inch bass speaker was custom designed by Celestion for Trace Elliot and are the original drive units in the 1048 cabinet. The unit has 80 watts rms power handling. Custom designed to provide ultra smooth bottom end response with fast bass cone movement. This speaker has a warm sound with plenty of clarity.

The Celestion C10T sound has featured on some of the most important British bass recordings throughout the 80s and 90s. The units impedance is 32 ohm, which makes it the same impedance as the speakers in the ampeg 4 x 10.

-----------------------------------------------------------

Possible replacement:-

Nominal diameter . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 254mm/10in
Power Rating (rms) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 200W
Nominal impedance . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 8Ω
Voice coil diameter . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 50.8mm/2in
Magnet type . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Ferrite
Sensitivity . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 94dB
Frequency range . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 45-3500Hz
Coil material . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Copper
Former material . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Polyimide
Cone material . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Kevlar loaded paper
Surround material . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Cloth-sealed
Xmax . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4mm/0.15in
Gap depth . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 8mm/0.31in
Voice coil winding width . . . . . . . . . . . . 16mm/0.62in
General Parameters
D . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 0.21m/8.27in
Fs. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 73Hz
Mmd . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 31.95g/1.123oz
Mair. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3.64g/0.128oz
Qms. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3.58
Qes . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 0.56
Qts . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 0.48
Re . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5.8Ω
Vas . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 22.74lt/0.80ft3
BI . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 13.02Tm
Cms . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 0.13mm/N
Rms . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4.55kg/s
Le . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 0.92mH
Small Signal Parameters
Diameter . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 256mm/10.1in
Overall depth . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 110mm/4.3in
Cut-out diameter . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 229mm/9in
Mounting slot dimensions . . . 6 x 8mm/0.24 x 0.31in
Number of mounting slots . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4
Mounting slot PCD . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 245mm/9.6in
Unit weight . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3kg/6.6lb

[Mr. Foxen]

Will need the depth of the port, there's probably a shelf inside.

[LawrenceH]

[quote name='Mr. Foxen' timestamp='1324326723' post='1473109']
Will need the depth of the port, there's probably a shelf inside.
[/quote]

Might not be with a port that size, if it's about 140 litres inside then tuning should be around 50Hz just with 18mm baffle thickness.
Those Celestions should work just fine in that cab, but you'll get port chuffing long before the speakers themselves run out of capability at 50Hz. In practice this might not be an issue, depends on your bass/sound and this would likely have been an issue when you pushed the cab before anyway.
Most significant issue is probably how similar the freq response of those speakers is in the mids/highs to what you had before, but it's hard to know without a response chart for the old speakers.

[klaw123]

Hi, I have checked the port information, there is a shelf inside which runs down the centre of the cab as a partition in the vertical, it's depth is approx 41cm.

I hope this helps.

Many thanks.

[JTUK]

I think you might want to consider another TE cab...if the cost of the drivers is getting close to £50 each.

It does indeed sound too iffy to try and match up a bespoke set, maybe..??

IMO..best choice is to get chassis reconed or new SH TE cab.

just my 2p..

[LawrenceH]

[quote name='klaw123' timestamp='1324396180' post='1473811']
Hi, I have checked the port information, there is a shelf inside which runs down the centre of the cab as a [b]partition in the vertical[/b], it's depth is approx 41cm.
[/quote]

If I understand correctly (that this runs perpendicular to a horizontal port slot) then this is not contributing to port function. A port shelf would extend the depth of the slot you see at the front. If that slot is just the depth of the baffle you can assume a tuning around 50Hz as I said and the BL10s will work ok in terms of T/S spec.
Looking at the response chart for the BL10-200X, it has a peak between 2 and 4k with extension on-axis up to 6k. That doesn't tell you how clean they are, but based on that response I'm sure it'd fall within the accepted range of 'a warm sound with plent of clarity'! Apart from the cost as JT says, might be worth checking the weight of the original drivers compared to the alternatives, you may not like it if it turns out they add a collective 6kg to the cab! If that's an issue then the lightweight neo green label equivalent, BN10-200X, can still be had for under £60 in a few places and will also work in your cab.

[klaw123]

Thank you all for your help, I have placed an order for the BLX10-200x today and hope to have them installed soon. Can you help me further.....Im looking at getting a Trace AH150 to use with the cab, will this work ok, cause no damage at 8 ohms? Or should I be looking for an amp with a bigger output? Im on a VERY tight budget, but need to get it right 1st time. I mainly play club gigs, my AH100 was ideal for the job, but alas it got stolen.

Thanks again all.

[LawrenceH]

As long as you wire the speakers series-parallel to give a total nominal impedance of 8 ohms you should be fine in terms of load.