Bass cab for guitar

[mart]

At the moment I'm having to play guitar as much as bass and, as a result, my practice set-ups at home are a mix of bass and guitar kit. For my guitar I've been running my tiny Blackstar HT1 head into a bass cab. Into a 15" cab it sounds great, both for clean sounds and for distorted. But the other day I switched it to run into my 10" Genz-Benz cab, thinking a 10" might be better for a guitar than a 15". The clean sounds are still fine, but the distorted sounds are now crap - they have that fizzy sound that I associate with cheap small tranny combos.

This isn't a big problem, because I can easily switch back to the 15. But I'm just curious: why does the GB cab sound so bad for distorted guitar? I always assumed that fizz was due to a lack of bottom, but the GB has plenty of bottom at the sort of volumes I'm working at. (The HT1 is only 1 watt!) So what's going on?

[escholl]

[quote name='mart' post='1292324' date='Jul 4 2011, 03:49 PM']At the moment I'm having to play guitar as much as bass and, as a result, my practice set-ups at home are a mix of bass and guitar kit. For my guitar I've been running my tiny Blackstar HT1 head into a bass cab. Into a 15" cab it sounds great, both for clean sounds and for distorted. But the other day I switched it to run into my 10" Genz-Benz cab, thinking a 10" might be better for a guitar than a 15". The clean sounds are still fine, but the distorted sounds are now crap - they have that fizzy sound that I associate with cheap small tranny combos.

This isn't a big problem, because I can easily switch back to the 15. But I'm just curious: why does the GB cab sound so bad for distorted guitar? I always assumed that fizz was due to a lack of bottom, but the GB has plenty of bottom at the sort of volumes I'm working at. (The HT1 is only 1 watt!) So what's going on?[/quote]
Did you try turning the tweeter off on the cab?

If that doesn't help, it might be that guitar cabs tend to be voiced very differently than bass ones, but they rely on this voicing to get a good sound. Could be the 10" cab is too neutral.

[Dood]

Agree with the above. The Genz kit is designed to be 'HiFi' with clarity. - If you've ever tried to run a distortion pedal straight in to a PA with no EQ, you'll get the same fizzy effect. The 15" speaker has a great deal of those upper mid and treble frequencies rolled off that would usually make distortion sound harsh and fizzy and thus will sound more pleasing to the ear. Tweeters aren't great with distortion either unless there's a bit of filtering and EQ before the distorted sound goes to the amp and then speaker. For example, I use Hartke aluminium coned cabinets that are naturally bright. I therefore Eq a 'guitar speaker' frequency curve on to just my distortion channel so that it sounds a lot smoother when the signal gets to my bright speakers.

I hope that makes sense! - in short, the Genz kit is is just doing a better job of relaying a facsimile of what is going in to it out to the speakers - the 15" is rounding off the top end to sound less harsh.

Incidently, Jimi Hendrix used to use 15" speakers in his guitar rig with spades of ratty distortion!

[mart]

[quote name='escholl' post='1292394' date='Jul 4 2011, 04:39 PM']Did you try turning the tweeter off on the cab?

If that doesn't help, it might be that guitar cabs tend to be voiced very differently than bass ones, but they rely on this voicing to get a good sound. Could be the 10" cab is too neutral.[/quote]

Sadly there isn't a switch for the tweeter. I suppose I could hunt around inside and disconnect it - that would actually suit me for when I play bass through it too (since I don't like a trebly sound).

But what you and Dood say about the cab being too neutral does sound right - the distortion sound is a bit like the sound you get from running a distortion pedal straight into a recording device.

I guess I had never thought a cab could be so faithful - I assumed guitar cabs sounded the way they do because they had to, not because they were designed to.

Thanks for opening up my eyes!

[Dood]

[quote name='mart' post='1293205' date='Jul 5 2011, 11:34 AM']Sadly there isn't a switch for the tweeter. I suppose I could hunt around inside and disconnect it - that would actually suit me for when I play bass through it too (since I don't like a trebly sound).

But what you and Dood say about the cab being too neutral does sound right - the distortion sound is a bit like the sound you get from running a distortion pedal straight into a recording device.

I guess I had never thought a cab could be so faithful - I assumed guitar cabs sounded the way they do because they had to, not because they were designed to.

Thanks for opening up my eyes![/quote]

Ahhh no problem! Yes, it's funny that what was once a limitation in speaker design is one of the things that guitarists like so much! You only have to look at how many manufacturers of guitar amps use the Celestion Vintage 30 speakers for amps that distort. It's mellowed top end and physical limiting effect on the signal is what makes them so pleasing to the ear..Despite being a very old design. You'd never want to use them as a hifi speaker though.. Yet the genz would probably do a good job at reproducing full range music signals - which is what big dynamic clean bass tones are all about.. Well, if you want them to be, that is.

[mart]

[quote name='escholl' post='1292394' date='Jul 4 2011, 04:39 PM']Did you try turning the tweeter off on the cab?
...[/quote]

I have now disconnected the tweeter, and the problem has gone completely - the cab now sounds great for all my guitar sounds. And all my bass sounds too! ("big dynamic clean bass tones" aren't me, I guess! )

I started the thread just to try to understand a problem which I didn't expect to be able to solve. But you guys have helped me understand it, AND helped me solve it!
Many thanks - I'm really chuffed!

[escholl]

[quote name='mart' post='1300696' date='Jul 12 2011, 10:05 AM']I have now disconnected the tweeter, and the problem has gone completely - the cab now sounds great for all my guitar sounds. And all my bass sounds too! ("big dynamic clean bass tones" aren't me, I guess! )

I started the thread just to try to understand a problem which I didn't expect to be able to solve. But you guys have helped me understand it, AND helped me solve it!
Many thanks - I'm really chuffed! [/quote]
you are most welcome -- glad we managed to help!