Building A Tube Head.

[PaulE]

Hey.

Is there any information available on the internet in regards to building heads?
I'm going to experiment by building a few cabs soon, but Im interested in getting into head building.

Is there anything I should start by looking at?

[umph]

google, theres ALOT of info out there

[Mr. Foxen]

How much electronics have you done before? Might be best starting by making a tube boost or preamp, or just pedals. With preamp level stuff, belts from it will be educational rather than fatal.

[untune]

I'm sure that somewhere out there, there's a DIY guitar valve head design that has a community around it. But yeah, I wouldn't do it unless youre 110% sure you know what you're doing as valves will be running at a potentially deadly 240-300V

[PaulE]

[quote name='untune' post='1091738' date='Jan 16 2011, 07:48 PM']I'm sure that somewhere out there, there's a DIY guitar valve head design that has a community around it. But yeah, I wouldn't do it unless youre 110% sure you know what you're doing as valves will be running at a potentially deadly 240-300V[/quote]

Surely its something I could get PAT tested or something.
I wont lie, i'm a novice at electronics.
I'm not saying I want to do it now.

Its something I want to look into, start with some smaller things, and progress.
I was looking for more a forum/community, like stated above.

Cheers.

[untune]

First google result. Should be able to get some info [url="http://www.ax84.com/"]AX84[/url]

[dan670844]

[quote name='PaulE' post='1091912' date='Jan 16 2011, 10:29 PM']Surely its something I could get PAT tested or something.
I wont lie, i'm a novice at electronics.
I'm not saying I want to do it now.

Its something I want to look into, start with some smaller things, and progress.
I was looking for more a forum/community, like stated above.

Cheers.[/quote]


If you really want to have a go, I would try a kit first and not bass,a guitar amp would be a better bet, I say this as there are a lot of kits around. Have a look at these websites www.musikding.de and www.ampmaker.com, both of them do 'champ' style kits musikding does a little one watt head, both of them sound good for guitar. With Ampmaker kits you will get a lot of support and help and at least a couple of them! are relatively simple to build and set up. Musikding even do a bass preamp / pedals, which would be even safer for a first go.
I would avoid building up something more complex to start with and probably even avoid building a valve amp (to start with), try a valve driven pedal or even a valve headphone amp as they tend to work at 9-24 volts from a regulated power supply. (check on the web there are loads), as a fair deal of knowledge about HT electrics RF shielding etc will be required to make a decent job. Start reading the websites etc. Locally to me there is a club (in london) for valve radios and radio ham etc. They helped me a great deal, how to solder, getting the components the right way round etc, shielding wire etc

I started small the first thing I built was a 12UA7 headphone amp, It was a disaster (lots of hum etc) but in a safe way, it taught me what i was doing wrong (it runs at 24 volts dc) even though 24 volts gave me a few zaps. I had got a few dud capacitors in the circuit, but i changed them all and with a great deal of help from the ham guys I got it working well.
After that I built a WF-55 kit from ampmaker, this is where I learnt even more, about shielding, reducing hum etc ts fun but very dangerous if you don't know what you are doing.. even inside this little monster the voltage is 350volts plus but its dc so you really stand no chance!

Have fun

[PaulE]

[quote name='dan670844' post='1092186' date='Jan 17 2011, 09:44 AM']If you really want to have a go, I would try a kit first and not bass,a guitar amp would be a better bet, I say this as there are a lot of kits around. Have a look at these websites www.musikding.de and www.ampmaker.com, both of them do 'champ' style kits musikding does a little one watt head, both of them sound good for guitar. With Ampmaker kits you will get a lot of support and help and at least a couple of them! are relatively simple to build and set up. Musikding even do a bass preamp / pedals, which would be even safer for a first go.
I would avoid building up something more complex to start with and probably even avoid building a valve amp (to start with), try a valve driven pedal or even a valve headphone amp as they tend to work at 9-24 volts from a regulated power supply. (check on the web there are loads), as a fair deal of knowledge about HT electrics RF shielding etc will be required to make a decent job. Start reading the websites etc. Locally to me there is a club (in london) for valve radios and radio ham etc. They helped me a great deal, how to solder, getting the components the right way round etc, shielding wire etc

I started small the first thing I built was a 12UA7 headphone amp, It was a disaster (lots of hum etc) but in a safe way, it taught me what i was doing wrong (it runs at 24 volts dc) even though 24 volts gave me a few zaps. I had got a few dud capacitors in the circuit, but i changed them all and with a great deal of help from the ham guys I got it working well.
After that I built a WF-55 kit from ampmaker, this is where I learnt even more, about shielding, reducing hum etc ts fun but very dangerous if you don't know what you are doing.. even inside this little monster the voltage is 350volts plus but its dc so you really stand no chance!

Have fun[/quote]

thanks for that reply dan, really what i was looking for.
I think I'll start with a few of the pedals, a headphone amp etc, similar to how you did yourself.
I'm in the process of building a cab, I know thats nothing compared to a head, but I dont expect anything soon, I dont care if it takes me three years to be where I want to be, purely something I'd consider a hobby.

I do like the look of the pp-36 kit though!
[url="http://www.ampmaker.com/pp-36-18-36w-plexi-amp-1490-0.html"]http://www.ampmaker.com/pp-36-18-36w-plexi-amp-1490-0.html[/url]

[dan670844]

[quote name='PaulE' post='1092226' date='Jan 17 2011, 10:27 AM']thanks for that reply dan, really what i was looking for.
I think I'll start with a few of the pedals, a headphone amp etc, similar to how you did yourself.
I'm in the process of building a cab, I know thats nothing compared to a head, but I dont expect anything soon, I dont care if it takes me three years to be where I want to be, purely something I'd consider a hobby.

I do like the look of the pp-36 kit though!
[url="http://www.ampmaker.com/pp-36-18-36w-plexi-amp-1490-0.html"]http://www.ampmaker.com/pp-36-18-36w-plexi-amp-1490-0.html[/url][/quote]


PP-18 is the muts! A mate of mine has just built one, Its well loud enough for gigging with the right cabs, 2x12 vertical alignment is best, It sounds exactly like a marshall 1974X.......

But my little WF-55 kit from ampmaker is also brilliant. 4 watts valve is pretty loud, I am of course a bass player its my day job, but I dabble on the guitar, I love the blues, peter green type stuff. The WF-55 is basically fender champ circuit, class A so its very touch sensitive and clear as a bell. There is no where to hide! its defo ironed out my dodgy playing, as its so transparent, responds to every nuance or mistake! It was not that difficult to build, but find someone to help you first go, Steve the radio ham guy, who helped me, really got my WF-55 working great and taught me so much, he made me do all the soldering!. My other option was to find a electronic evening class, which i might still do. I have since bought a ready made amp cab for it and it looks a million dollars. The difference in sound from this and the rotten little transistor combo i was using, its just another world.

I have a lot of free time so making these kits was great. Beats gardening, daytime tv, keeps me out of the pub! But my advice would be not to rush it, take your time, Its really important to make good solder joints, get the right components in the right place and test as you go, you really need a multimeter and know how to use it and a good soldering iron and for that matter good solder (most solder is crap, you need to get some from a proper electronics place, the solder from halfords etc is Pee poor)

One day I will have a go at making a bass amp, but to be honest the costs are pretty high due to the quality of output transformers etc all told its easier to go and buy one the quality of the Orange, Hiwatt, Matamp, stuff is just outstanding and would be difficult to replicate in the shed!

I am going to have a go at the Musikding Bass fuzz pedal next, just for a laugh, maybe you can start there! they are only 20 euros

[Slipperydick]

You might find this site useful.

[url="http://modulusamplification.com/AMP-CHASSIS-for-JCM800-JTM45-PLEXI-STYLE-AMPS-P643467.aspx"]http://modulusamplification.com/AMP-CHASSI...PS-P643467.aspx[/url]

Used to build amps years ago and the metalwork was always a problem for me. I took an interest again recently, Looks like transformers might be a bit of a problem nowadays, although I have seen replica Fender Bassman ones on ebay occasionally.



There are high voltages with high available current in valve amps, and its still there ages after you have disconected the mains. Dont get involved with valve stuff if you dont know what your doing, Errors can easily be fatal when working with valves.

Edited January 17, 2011 by Slipperydick

[PaulE]

[quote name='Slipperydick' post='1092302' date='Jan 17 2011, 11:40 AM']You might find this site useful.

[url="http://modulusamplification.com/AMP-CHASSIS-for-JCM800-JTM45-PLEXI-STYLE-AMPS-P643467.aspx"]http://modulusamplification.com/AMP-CHASSI...PS-P643467.aspx[/url]

Used to build amps years ago and the metalwork was always a problem for me. I took an interest again recently, Looks like transformers might be a bit of a problem nowadays, although I have seen replica Fender Bassman ones on ebay occasionally.



There are high voltages with high available current in valve amps, and its still there ages after you have disconected the mains. Dont get involved with valve stuff if you dont know what your doing, Errors can easily be fatal when working with valves.[/quote]

would solid state be better to start off with?

[dan670844]

[quote name='PaulE' post='1092226' date='Jan 17 2011, 10:27 AM']thanks for that reply dan, really what i was looking for.
I think I'll start with a few of the pedals, a headphone amp etc, similar to how you did yourself.
I'm in the process of building a cab, I know thats nothing compared to a head, but I dont expect anything soon, I dont care if it takes me three years to be where I want to be, purely something I'd consider a hobby.

I do like the look of the pp-36 kit though!
[url="http://www.ampmaker.com/pp-36-18-36w-plexi-amp-1490-0.html"]http://www.ampmaker.com/pp-36-18-36w-plexi-amp-1490-0.html[/url][/quote]

Would love to see the results of your cab building, I had a go, the results were shocking! I am a terrible cabinet maker. The results of my efforts sans speakers and stuff, were used as fuel, to burn Mr. Guy F. The glint in the Mrs eyes when she lit the bonfire, was also telling

[daz]

i have had a scoot round looking for diy [b]bass[/b] amps. These seem to be scarcer than hens dentures.

[dan670844]

[quote name='daz' post='1092594' date='Jan 17 2011, 03:13 PM']i have had a scoot round looking for diy [b]bass[/b] amps. These seem to be scarcer than hens dentures.[/quote]


There are a few, mainly from the US London power do one, there are a few german kits Tube amp doctor do one for example. But look at the cost of them! the kit will cost as much as a Matamp/ Orange fully built, Its not worth the bother, the circuits used for bass valve amps i.e. multiple valve push pull are a nightmare to get running properly from new and thats with a proper scope etc etc. A matamp bass amp for example will spend a good time on the bench being tuned up and that means filddling about with the circuits. The main problem as I have said before with bass amps is the output transformer, ones good enough for bass i.e. go low enough for bass and with enough output are pretty darn expensive as they just arent made in quantity anymore. A 200watt output transformer which has good low end i.e. UL or very nearly UL is going to cost £200-300 on its own as its a serious bit of iron.

[daz]

[quote name='dan670844' post='1092714' date='Jan 17 2011, 04:38 PM']There are a few, mainly from the US London power do one, there are a few german kits Tube amp doctor do one for example. But look at the cost of them! the kit will cost as much as a Matamp/ Orange fully built, Its not worth the bother, the circuits used for bass valve amps i.e. multiple valve push pull are a nightmare to get running properly from new and thats with a proper scope etc etc. A matamp bass amp for example will spend a good time on the bench being tuned up and that means filddling about with the circuits. The main problem as I have said before with bass amps is the output transformer, ones good enough for bass i.e. go low enough for bass and with enough output are pretty darn expensive as they just arent made in quantity anymore. A 200watt output transformer which has good low end i.e. UL or very nearly UL is going to cost £200-300 on its own as its a serious bit of iron.[/quote]

So would you say it may well be worth picking up a broken bass amp on ebay and using parts off that ? Im assuming a non valve amp could be gutted for its transformer here? (as you see i know nothing about electronics)

[dan670844]

[quote name='daz' post='1092884' date='Jan 17 2011, 06:35 PM']So would you say it may well be worth picking up a broken bass amp on ebay and using parts off that ? Im assuming a non valve amp could be gutted for its transformer here? (as you see i know nothing about electronics)[/quote]

A lot of people mainly guitards gut their old tranny amps and make them into valve amps a popular choice is the uk made Laney linebackers, they get rid of the nasty transistor amp (which isnt bad in my opinion for clean sounds, much better than modern stuff) and just use the chassis and even the speakers as they were pretty well made. But when I mean gut I mean junk all the electronics as not one bit can be used including the transformers, valve stuff works on high tension i.e high voltage and low current whereas, transistor amps most often work on low voltage usually around 15 volts but with higher current. Of course there are exceptions.
One of my friends has got a PP18 (18 watt push pull) amp kit inside a old laney linebacker chassis it sounds awesome and know one knows!

So to answer your question really no. Having said that there are usually quite a few old valve bass amps and PA amps that appear on ebay quite regularly for not much money, Brands like Selmer, WEM, Laney and Carlsbro, there is nothing to them they usually have a few dry capacitors (dead) knackered resistors and or need new valves. They can be easy re cased if you like (see Ampmaker) great as a project (usual caveats apply) and above all they sound pretty dam amazing esp the WEM / Carlsbro /Selmer. Great for noodling rehearsals etc, but they are very heavy and for live you would be chewing your nails on the reliability.....

[pete.young]

Torres [url="http://www.torresamps.com/"]http://www.torresamps.com/[/url] has some nice looking kits and you can even go on a course to learn to build something.

[Mr. Foxen]

Actually, a good bet would be to hit up Thornybank for one of his SC120s, will give you the hard parts (chassis, box, trannies, turret boards) and rebuild it. Probably do a whole new preamp because the one in it is noisy (but also cool, a rebuild with modern resistors would probably sort it).

[dan670844]

[quote name='pete.young' post='1093092' date='Jan 17 2011, 08:50 PM']Torres [url="http://www.torresamps.com/"]http://www.torresamps.com/[/url] has some nice looking kits and you can even go on a course to learn to build something.[/quote]

Arrgh I forgot about Torres! yes they does a 200 watt one I believe.

But I really want is just a valve poweramp just a big KT88 monoblock monster that I can feed on a variety of preamps! that is rackable. With proper cooling etc and modern components. In the old days (before my time) they used to build slaves not anymore... Mesa and others have had a go but they didnt seem to take off that well. A lot of circuit Guitards seem to use the Marshall EL84/34 rack power amps these days I guess they get it!

[Slipperydick]

[quote name='PaulE' post='1092476' date='Jan 17 2011, 01:43 PM']would solid state be better to start off with?[/quote]

Safer, usually operate at around 60V instead of 400 ish. But the mains is still dangerous, and there is still a risk of fire, and injury. Sounds daft I know - it does till you've seen a large electrolyitc cap explode anyway. I used to work at a firm that had a hole in the workshop ceiling where a can reputedly had gone through it.

There used to be a lot of ready built output modules and PSUs on the market - TUAC and Saxon come to mind, although tbh, I'm not sure how good they would be compared to modern Bass amps - but I dont know whats available nowadays. Using something one of these would allow you to experiment with building your own front end or copy the schematic from somethng well known.

Why not start by building yourself a good heafty practice amp ? say 50-100W RMS That way you can gain experience as you go along.

[DHA]

[quote name='dan670844' post='1093551' date='Jan 18 2011, 10:03 AM']Arrgh I forgot about Torres! yes they does a 200 watt one I believe.

But I really want is just a valve poweramp just a big KT88 monoblock monster that I can feed on a variety of preamps! that is rackable. With proper cooling etc and modern components. In the old days (before my time) they used to build slaves not anymore... Mesa and others have had a go but they didnt seem to take off that well. A lot of circuit Guitards seem to use the Marshall EL84/34 rack power amps these days I guess they get it![/quote]


Torres is a good place to start. I designed their boxer range which I would suggest is a good place to start. The instructions are good and deal with the safely very well.

A fender bassman (much used by guitarists) is really quite a simple amp and Torres have kits for these as well. With the right bass cab (4x10" in the Fender combo) it will sound great with bass.

good luck and let us know how you get on.