BottomE Posted December 14, 2010 Share Posted December 14, 2010 Hi, I am starting to dread the soundman approaching with his DI plug in hand. I don't do many gigs with the amp DI but the last couple have been a nightmare. The tech said that the output from my DI was "too hot". What does that mean? So he ended up taking an out from the tuner! I also remember a guy in a studio struggling to get to grips with the DI on the amp. The amp is a Little Mark 2 and sounds great through the cabs that i use. So could there be a problem with the DI? If there is how can i find out without a costly visit to a tech? Many thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stewart Posted December 14, 2010 Share Posted December 14, 2010 You could get an attenuator like this: [url="http://www.studiospares.com/mic-accessories/pro-10db-inline-attenuator/invt/568570/?htxt=JmKYN1biLBFcPn94DCGNsBqSItmTIEyXt%2Bt38Pe6LkNPGq9HZa0UU4GeqxvAEUH4A4bXKZCM0iWu%0AJpg9HOCL4w%3D%3D"]Attenuator[/url] But a decent desk should be able to use the output from any signal from mic up to 'hot' line levels... And a decent engineer should be able to produce the gear required to cope if the desk didn't for any reason... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DHA Posted December 16, 2010 Share Posted December 16, 2010 [quote name='BottomE' post='1058918' date='Dec 14 2010, 08:04 PM']Hi, I am starting to dread the soundman approaching with his DI plug in hand. I don't do many gigs with the amp DI but the last couple have been a nightmare. The tech said that the output from my DI was "too hot". What does that mean? So he ended up taking an out from the tuner! I also remember a guy in a studio struggling to get to grips with the DI on the amp. The amp is a Little Mark 2 and sounds great through the cabs that i use. So could there be a problem with the DI? If there is how can i find out without a costly visit to a tech? Many thanks.[/quote] I have seen this on some amps were the output is very high. I think some amps do this to drive a slave amp and are not really designed to run a desk. You could buy a DI pedal and run it from the tuner out and let the signal pass thou to run the tuner as well. Make a range myself dare I say? Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BottomE Posted December 17, 2010 Author Share Posted December 17, 2010 [quote name='DHA' post='1060465' date='Dec 16 2010, 12:11 PM']I have seen this on some amps were the output is very high. I think some amps do this to drive a slave amp and are not really designed to run a desk. You could buy a DI pedal and run it from the tuner out and let the signal pass thou to run the tuner as well. Make a range myself dare I say? Dave[/quote] I have a Sadowsky Outboard preamp that has a DI. I used the Sadowsky when i was playing passive basses but the main bass is a Stingray these days so i don't really take the Sadowsky out. Should i use that in some configuration? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MythSte Posted December 17, 2010 Share Posted December 17, 2010 [quote name='BottomE' post='1061203' date='Dec 17 2010, 12:52 AM']I have a Sadowsky Outboard preamp that has a DI. I used the Sadowsky when i was playing passive basses but the main bass is a Stingray these days so i don't really take the Sadowsky out. Should i use that in some configuration?[/quote] The Sadowsky should more than do the trick and will probably give a slightly better signal to the desk than the LMII DI. Having said that however, I've owned a LMII and the DI was fine for any desk I played it through. They are very popular amps and I've never heard of such a problem so it might be worth getting it looked at. I cant even give you a ballpark as to how much that would be though Have a look round for a techie in your area and give them a ring would be the best bet IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonny-lad Posted December 17, 2010 Share Posted December 17, 2010 AFAIK, the DI on the Little Mark II is at line level rather than mic level and it can be to hot for some desks when plugged into the XLR inputs. Nothing wrong with it, but an attenuator could be useful in case the desk you're going into doesn't like it...or alternatively, have the sadowski preamp ready in case you need a different DI. Not sure if using a XLR to jack going into the line input on the desk would help by matching the levels better as I've never tried it, but i would assume with the DI on the Little Mark II being at line level that it might work better. I tend to find myself using a MXR M-80 (which I got when I needed a distortion very occasionally), but I never had any major problems with the DI from the Little Mark II - just got to be aware that it's at line level instead of mic level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BottomE Posted December 17, 2010 Author Share Posted December 17, 2010 [quote name='jonny-lad' post='1061635' date='Dec 17 2010, 02:44 PM']Not sure if using a XLR to jack going into the line input on the desk would help by matching the levels better as I've never tried it, but i would assume with the DI on the Little Mark II being at line level that it might work better. I tend to find myself using a MXR M-80 (which I got when I needed a distortion very occasionally), but I never had any major problems with the DI from the Little Mark II - just got to be aware that it's at line level instead of mic level.[/quote] Thanks. I read deep in another forum somewhere that going from XLR to 1/4 inch jack solved someone elses DI problem with an LM2. Other than that i "upgrade" to the Little Mark III which seems identical apart from what looks like a more professional DI. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonny-lad Posted December 18, 2010 Share Posted December 18, 2010 It'd make sense going to the jack input as they're designed for line level signals...I guess it's more a case of the soundman being aware that it's not at mic level despite the XLR output socket. The line inputs on mixing desks (or at least every desk I've ever come across) take balanced signals as well, so as long as you use the correct cables, you wouldn't be any worse off than you would if the signal was at mic level going into the XLR inputs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stewart Posted December 18, 2010 Share Posted December 18, 2010 [quote]I read deep in another forum somewhere that going from XLR to 1/4 inch jack solved someone elses DI problem with an LM2.[/quote] Yes, "Unbalancing" a balanced signal by connecting directly to an unbalanced stage (like connecting a XLR to a mono jack) will always lose you 6dB. Not the best way to attenuate a signal though, and definitely not a good idea on a long run. Inputs on mixers are almost always differential/balanced - microphone or line. Whether 'stereo' jacks or XLR connectors are used isn't relevant Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BottomE Posted December 18, 2010 Author Share Posted December 18, 2010 [quote name='Stewart' post='1062404' date='Dec 18 2010, 12:54 PM']Yes, "Unbalancing" a balanced signal by connecting directly to an unbalanced stage (like connecting a XLR to a mono jack) will always lose you 6dB. Not the best way to attenuate a signal though, and definitely not a good idea on a long run. Inputs on mixers are almost always differential/balanced - microphone or line. Whether 'stereo' jacks or XLR connectors are used isn't relevant[/quote] So am i better of connecting to the desk via a 3rd party DI AKA my Sadowsky box? If yes, in what configuration. I am looking for a long term solution - even if it means upgrading the amp to the LM3. Thanks for all your posts by the way Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joegarcia Posted December 20, 2010 Share Posted December 20, 2010 Bass -> Sadowsky: XLR out -> mixer Jack out -> bass amp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
algmusic Posted December 21, 2010 Share Posted December 21, 2010 [quote name='joegarcia' post='1064241' date='Dec 20 2010, 04:05 AM']Bass -> Sadowsky: XLR out -> mixer Jack out -> bass amp[/quote] +1 this is the best way if the DI is hot. I'm very surprised that the DI on your MB is hi. I had a LM and it was fine. I recorded with it many times. Is your gain very high or the output of your bass, maybe reduce the gain a touch and you should be fine? If you have a little mixer at home you could compare the level you get from the Sadowsky and the LM. I have a sansamp when I don't have my amp head, which isn't often now as my new amp head is smaller. But I know I can get a good level to the front of house and and to my amp and get my sound every time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BottomE Posted December 21, 2010 Author Share Posted December 21, 2010 [quote name='algmusic' post='1065910' date='Dec 21 2010, 04:55 PM']+1 this is the best way if the DI is hot. I'm very surprised that the DI on your MB is hi. I had a LM and it was fine. I recorded with it many times. Is your gain very high or the output of your bass, maybe reduce the gain a touch and you should be fine? If you have a little mixer at home you could compare the level you get from the Sadowsky and the LM. I have a sansamp when I don't have my amp head, which isn't often now as my new amp head is smaller. But I know I can get a good level to the front of house and and to my amp and get my sound every time.[/quote] Yeah, its the one thing about the LM2 that i am dissapointed with. I am pretty careful to make sure that the gain isn't clipping and get a lovely sound (one i like anyway) through the cabs but get frustrated when the front of house gets added. That said, i have also been in other venues and the sound is great. Its the inconsistency that bugs me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
algmusic Posted December 22, 2010 Share Posted December 22, 2010 [quote name='BottomE' post='1066304' date='Dec 21 2010, 11:35 PM']Yeah, its the one thing about the LM2 that i am dissapointed with. I am pretty careful to make sure that the gain isn't clipping and get a lovely sound (one i like anyway) through the cabs but get frustrated when the front of house gets added. That said, i have also been in other venues and the sound is great. Its the inconsistency that bugs me.[/quote] If you only had a problem at one or two venues and all the others venues were fine. It's the venue, not your gear. I had an interference problem with my amp, then worked out that it was their rubbish desk and not my gear at all. I took my amp home tried it DI's on 5 desks then and some cheap mixers and it was fine. The wiring in some venues are awful, at that to a bad sound guy and you have recipe for disaster. I find the more you know about your gear, the better so the sound check and gig. If you have any friends with recording gear or even a mixer try it their and compare it to another amp's DI. If it doesn't work a in-line attenuator will help. I always expect it's gonna sound rubbish, then if it does, i'm not upset, anything better is a bonus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BottomE Posted December 22, 2010 Author Share Posted December 22, 2010 [quote name='algmusic' post='1066559' date='Dec 22 2010, 10:52 AM']I always expect it's gonna sound rubbish, then if it does, i'm not upset, anything better is a bonus.[/quote] +1 on that What amazes me is that the sound guys and other members of my band go for a really loud onstage sound to the point that there is no clarity or defeinition. It amazes me that they think right, we got a massive PA we have to turn everything up. I am the opposite - the bigger the front of house the quieter i like it on stage. I seem to be alone in that point of view... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roland Rock Posted December 27, 2010 Share Posted December 27, 2010 [quote name='DHA' post='1060465' date='Dec 16 2010, 12:11 PM']I have seen this on some amps were the output is very high. I think some amps do this to drive a slave amp and are not really designed to run a desk. You could buy a DI pedal and run it from the tuner out and let the signal pass thou to run the tuner as well. Make a range myself dare I say? Dave[/quote] I had the same problem, where my DI was far too hot for the desk. My DHA VT1 EQ pedal has a great DI for both PAs and recording Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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