LawrenceH

Interesting read for me as I'd come to a similar conclusion to - I bought a little Yamaha DXR8 a few years ago and have since found it very capable of carrying vocals/keys/acoustic guitar etc in a pub scenario at a quality we'd have been amazed by at the turn of the century. Apart from the easier weight and the smaller storage footprint, the (lack of) visual intrusion up on a pole is a very nice bonus. Couple of things that follow from what Phil has said - the quality and design integration of horn, crossover and compression driver matter a lot more than the woofer and you can see this in these mid-price little cabs. The Yamahas have a fairly decent Celestion compression driver and cross using DSP with FIR. The woofer is just ok. Cheap out on the top though and it would be much more objectionable. I think our low-end bias as bassists, and a DIY culture that has focused on bass response partly because that's easier to model, clouds our focus a little bit. 500-5k is where the money is IMO. In the age of DSP it's really hard to beat what can be done with modern active FIR crossovers and bespoke programmed multiband compression. I've built several good, flat and well-behaved speakers with passive crossovers using that excellent Bagby spreadsheet program combined with outdoor measurements, but it's a lot of work and the passive components are expensive especially if you have to tweak spec from a prototype. About the only way to make it cost-effective would be to do what LFSys appear to have done and turn it into a premium product. If those cabs had a PA form-factor and big brand behind them I expect they'd cost a lot more (and some components would be downgraded too!).

Thanks Phil, very impressed to see what you've been up to on the DIY side and Stevie on the commercial side - and gratifying to read so many positive user reports, suggesting your ideas about what made good-sounding cabinets are shared by many others. I must admit since I built my 2 little 1x10" cabinets with Celestion's (sadly-discontinued) neo drivers in, my desire to fiddle around with more speakers gets countered by the knowledge I have no space for more and have yet to find a scenario where these aren't enough. But I still have some ideas! Anyway back on-topic I'll look out for the RCF but ideally would like a few more XLR channels for the now very occasional times I get asked to do sound for others. Ease of use aside, I'd just like to know if I'll hear any real difference going for A&H over the Behringer.

Think this fits what I was saying about our bubbles - I could do the 'Good Times' one as could probably millions who've heard 'Rappers' Delight' (137 million Spotify plays) but no clue about the Thin Lizzy one (106 million plays), though I know I've heard it - don't even remember it being bass-led! Edit to add I haven't a clue about Brown Eyed Girl bassline despite knowing the song! Is that iconic?! Isn't the Zep one guitar and bass in unison? Presumably that still counts. Meanwhile 'So What' played by Paul Chambers is probably the most iconic jazz bassline of all time (125 million plays), the whole song hinges round it and it led off the album that transformed jazz for the next 70 years... Different bubble again though!

I'd never heard of the 3 bassists pictured and don't recall being particularly taken by any New Order/Joy Division basslines, though I'm sure they do a great job if you're into that sort of thing. Mick Karn is another one who I don't actually know who he is/was. Having just looked him up I don't know of anyone in real life who listened to Japan. But again I'm sure he was great. What I think this illustrates nicely is how much we all live in our own tiny little bubbles as to what was 'important' or 'influential' back in the day (or indeed now). And the music critic part of the modern media seem to exist in an even tinier bubble - see various critics/radio DJs (men) of a certain age (gen X) who all fawn over particular (punk/new wave) bands from their youth as though they were incredibly important in the entire history of Western music despite a very limited output for a very short time that anyone outside of their very narrow age bracket (or different racial background) would barely recognise much less care about. Could be wrong but I don't think anyone has mentioned Robbie Shakespeare, for example. Or Leon Sylvers, Aston Barrett, Oscar Alston, Louis Johnson, etc etc. Which is fine, but objectively they have all sold an awful lot of records with very recognisable basslines!

This is all great info, thanks. And nice to be back here having needed to step away from it all a while ago. Preamp noise is an interesting one - obviously it matters for some scenarios whereas others it matters not a jot, but is that the only audible difference? Some classic pres are not exactly quiet but they sound great. What I've noticed with crappy budget gear sometimes is a slight (or not so slight) harshness and/or grainyness that accumulates across the channels. Likewise some EQs just sound better than others in a way that feels like it's not wholly about centre frequency and slope/Q. Basically, studio and live I've tended to find the better the gear, the easier mixing becomes. Just not sure where that stops being significant with these digital mixers! The RCF M18 sounds interesting even if only available secondhand.

Thanks Al, the fact you could hear a clear improvement is interesting and helpful. Still interested in comparisons to the Behringer - at less than half the price and 10+ years older tech, I don't doubt the A&H has the edge, but how obvious is it to a discerning ear?

Hi all. Reviving this thread because I'd like to know if people can comment specifically on the sound quality of these CQ mixers versus the ubiquitous Behringer XR (and X32) series? I've not got any experience using digital mixers but the years have taught me that using good gear throughout a signal chain tends to have a cumulative impact on the overall sound - more than A/Bing individual channels in isolation would suggest. Been using a couple of analogue desks recently with limited feature sets that I find harder work to get sounding good than I remember old Allen & Heath GL series being, where you just plugging in, messed around with the swept mids where necessary, and you were away. That said, how noticeable is any perceived difference in sound quality between the A&H and the Behringer kit, and where is it heard? I'm particularly interested in the basic sound (pre-amp, channel EQ, main bus) but also compressors and vocal reverb. TIA!

FWIW Origin's justification for not making the cab sim defeatable on the current bassrigs, from a conversation via social media, is that it just doesn't sound great - I think a spitty/fizzy top end. Their design philosophy appears to be to minimise bad-sounding possibilities even if it removes some flexibility. I vaguely remember suggesting a carefully-chosen LPF could give a less coloured alternative to a full cab sim. Very interested in what this new pedal offers.

The first Chameleon one of the two is much better to my ears. There's some good videos on YT about making that exact patch on an ARP - uses distortion I think.

In my experience your technique for that one (and possibly your strings) would have to be absolutely flawless - the quick octaves are the thing it finds hardest. The tracking is (very) good though but that song is a bridge too far. I don't know whether it'd be possible to setup a patch that played alternating octaves from a single trigger note as a sort of cheat, but obviously that's not as fun or as versatile, might get you through a straight cover though.

Despite years of piano lessons and messing about on synths, I still don't want to play basslines on them - for some reason it just doesn't scratch the itch in the same way as playing them on bass guitar. Can never shake the feeling I'm pressing sprung switches, I don't feel the same connection. The FI VIP gives me that playing satisfaction, it's just more fun.

Not who you were asking but the program change footswitch already lets you do up/down based on how quickly you click - not perfect of course, but once you get used to it it works well.

The FI VIP screen is very bright in real life. It doesn't film well. No problem on stage unless you're under bright red light I guess

What band are you in that you get to play D-Train?! I want to come and watch

I did this, got a prompt reply asking my address and an envelope arrived a few days later containing the film. I also mentioned some suggestions I've made here about presets and a tutorial video showing recreation of a classic bass sound from scratch. The response to these was very positive. It is a nice luxury when you as a consumer can communicate directly with the design team on a product like this.