Mikey D

WHY WHY WHY!?!?!?!

I've been looking for a fretted GWB2 on and off for the past year and a bit!

Please don't defret it-there aren't many about as it is!

Would you be willing to sell it and then use the money to get a gwb1?

[quote name='mcgraham' post='433471' date='Mar 13 2009, 12:06 PM']So Mikey, your 'cell' selection, do you select four notes to use as a palette (so to speak) for your soloing, i.e. using them as the primary colours? If so, how do you personally choose your four notes? Is it quite artificial like 'each chord I will use the 2 4 6 and 7', or are you quite free in your interval choice each time the chord comes around?

Just curious!

Mark[/quote]

Hi

For practice I suppose you could say it is quite artificial, with the idea being that you can access different sounds or have access to strong melodic statements when you actually play. Say you were playing over Cmaj you would possibly use the C lydian stack. So C E G B D F# A C.

Take 4/5/6 of whatever many notes as your melodic template. When i refer to cells in this case, I am purely talking ones that are derived from the stack of thirds. So using 4 say I may practice with G B D F#. Initially only these notes in order for the whole range of the instrument. Using chromatic and diatonic approach tones on each degree. Playing around them using enclosures diatonicially and chromatically on each degree. Obviously in any inversion for the whole range of your instrument as well. It can be seen as a technical exercise but I find it really does give you access to a lot more melodic ideas to have at your disposal.


Regarding the other use of 'cells' ala Coltranes Giant Steps:
I have practiced using say 1-2-3-5 on every major/dominant chord and 1-3-4-5 on every minor. Then using a fixed pattern for the upper extensions on the chord say 5-13-7-9 on major/dominant and 9-3-11-7 on minor. Use whichever ones you like the sound of, I got this approach from one of the Bergonzi books. I practice this much like I practice playing arpeggios through a whole piece. It can sound very artificial when playing through using the same shape for every chord, but then you practice every inversion. Then you try mixing up all inversions while playing to try and make a line. The next step is to use different cells on each chord to create a line, then using different cells and different inversions. With the aim being that you are able to do it completely at whim.

This approach is great for fast moving material, but yes I agree it isn't particularly musical, although the results can be, but it is just another approach to playing which i think is good to have and really helps with the understanding of what tones you are playing over certain chords.

I've just been asked by one of my old course mates to come up and play the music of the "Agogo" album by John Scofield with his organ trio as a little one of project for a bit of fun. I haven't really played out much (at all actually) the past year, so will be a bit rusty, but thought it would be a good laugh.

On Thursday nights the Cobweb Collective hold a jazz night with a national artist supported by a local act (who usually do a set before and after the main act) and then a jam session. Usually some good players get up if you fancy a jam (Usually an upright bass there to use)

I'm not sure who the main act is yet, I'll update as I know.

Free entry.

The Yardbird
Birmingham

Thursday 2nd April

[quote name='bilbo230763' post='432153' date='Mar 12 2009, 09:12 AM']Great post, Mikey. It all makes perfect sense.[/quote]
Cheers! I really do practice this a lot and has really improved my technique, intonation on fretless and note choice. Although, I'm still rubbish.

The main arpeggio material I practice is from Uni as taught to me by my improvisation teacher who has the most ridiculous grasp of the jazz language I have ever heard. All of this actually feeds into playing, not just practicing shapes technique. The bits I practice that refer to extended arpeggios are as follows:

What you were referring to as playing through a chord in 3rds, I will call a 'stack'. It is a stack of thirds created from a scale/mode, but of course gives you the complete 13th chord.

1-3-5-7-9-11-13

Obviously this should be practiced for major and melodic minor scales and from each degree of their scale/i.e. all of their modes.

I play these completely up and down, and as McGraham said all the way up, shift up a tone, then down again.

I find looking at it as two 7th chords over each other helps when playing as I can come up with the sound easier as I technically only need to think of the upper section of the extended arpeggio:

Cmaj7 Dm7 - C E G B D F A C - Cmaj13 - Ionion (C Major)
Cmaj7 D7 - C E G B D F# A C - Cmaj13#11 - C Lydian
C7 Dm7 - C E G Bb D F A C - C13 - C Mixolydian (A pretty unexciting dominant sound though if we are honest)
C7 D7 - C E G Bb D F# A C - C13#11 - C Lydian Dominant (4th mode of G melodic minor)
C7 Ddim - C E G Bb D F Ab C - C7b6 - F Melodic Minor
Cm7 Dbm/7 - C Eb G Bb Db E Ab C - Calt - Db Melodic Minor
Cm7 Dm7 - C Eb G Bb D F A C - Cm13 - C Dorian
Cm/maj7 Dm7 - C Eb G B D F A C - Cm/maj7 - C Melodic Minor

Of course there are more, but these are just a few common sounds, you can probably work out all the others when you have played through all the modes.

Then you isolate 3, 4, 5 and 6 note 'cells' from within the 7 note 'stacks' and use as melodic templates. So over Cmaj use say a 5 note stack from A (A C E G as the source for your playing.

I personally think in 4 note cells a lot as they are easier to manage and remember their relationship to the underlying chord.

i.e. in Cmajor isolate 4 notes starting from E (EGBD). Playing this in all its inversion etc as described by McGraham over Cmajor you can hear the sound. This gives you a Cmaj9 sound or from A (ACEG) gives you a C6 sound. I wouldn't tend to use any of the others as they would present an F natural, and most commonly (obviously not always) would want an F#. This is when I start looking at the other modes. So for major, the Lydian mode is probably more convenient to use. Now if you start a 4 note shape on D (DF#AC) you create a Cmaj13#11 sound.

Once you get used to using all the shapes/sounds within a particular scale there is nothing stopping you super imposing others, but it helps if you know where it came from and why you are doing it. One of the best way is understanding how melodic minor shapes can fit over chords and in particular dominants. So over C7 play the melodic minor stacks C is on the 2nd, 4th, 5th and 7th degrees. (Bb G F and Db) or another way of looking at it, the melodic minor starting on the 7th 5th 4th and b9th These create the following sounds in order C7 sus b9, C7#11, C7b6 and Calt. You can then start taking shapes out of these modes (or any others) to access the sound you want.

You can then take it a little further by decoration of the triads and 4 and 5 note cells from above and below using chromatic and diatonic combinations to approach the structures from the stacks and you know, it sounds little more like jazz!

I've probably not covered exactly what you meant, but I kept typing and the above came out. I hope it is of some use to you anyway.

[quote name='bilbo230763' post='431528' date='Mar 11 2009, 02:15 PM'](and, if you play fretless, VERY accurately)[/quote]

Amen!

I'm just finishing work so don't have time to post everything, but I practice arpeggio/extended arpeggios, alot! When I first start learning about 14 years ago I only ever did arpeggios as they were in the rockschool grade I was taking. Once I passed that I didn't practice them at all until I started studying/playing properly again a few years ago. Very naive on my part, especially considering I'm trying to play that jazz music.

I'll post when I get home some of the arpeggio excercises I use.

"Hi...I'm Jon Liebman....Welcome to Funk Bass!"

The amount of times I played that Cd to hear the intro lick...

Wow!

I started learning slap with your book! To this day I play some of those licks!

Great to have you here!

My only bass now is a GWB35 (upgraded with a nordstrand dual coil and Bee Pre) and I love having the ramp. To the point where I don't like playing other peoples basses anymore unless they have one.

I looked at Gary's technique for a bit, and got some of it down a while ago, it took a lot of practice, but I now mainly just play with 2 or 4 fingers like Garrison, although I have never actually studied him or his playing.

I have attached a picture of said bass and ramp:
[attachment=21435:gwb_bass.jpg]

I also did a four finger video a long time ago...I didn't realise how long! The sound quality is quite bad, but haven't been able to do any updates as I don't have the facility anymore. Here it is anyway:

I've been doing about 30mins of this a day and already have come up with some lines I would never have dreamed off and I really like the sound of-like the players I have heard and never understood how they got there. I'm currently using it as a structured way of playing 'outside' over dominants until I fully grasp the concept as explained on the dvd (which I am yet to see)

Mike - there are no audio examples I can find apart from his playing when searching on youtube. I am not confident enough to put some up yet!
Bilbo - I can relate to your concerns, but as I see it, it is a very structured way of attempting to play outside, utilising some very simple rules. Although, currently, there is a certain amount of randomness to it, but I was wondering if the dvd explains this further!?
Mark - I agree with your three statements completely. I currently am only practicing the major triads and minor triads separately, before adding the other triad shapes. I merely added this to my practice as I wanted something new that would challenge me mentally/technically, but also open up some of the sounds I was playing - this 'concept' sort of fits the bill and as i said, some sax players i have heard, whose playing I respect, definitely has some of this in there, so wanted to check it out myself.

Supposedly he recommends ways where this concept can be put over standards and other moving harmony, so I'm hoping I come across someone who has seen the dvd to explain that to me, as i can't justify the cost of it at the moment.

I have recently started looking at this concept, anyone else familiar with it?

A quick explaination of it from the Casa Valdez site:
Without going into full detail, the idea of the triadic chromatic concept is to take either major, minor, diminished or augmented triads and move them around chromatically and in random inversions. If you don’t repeat the same inversion twice in a row and move chromatically on each successive triad you will be borrowing from the twelve-tone row. Triadic lines created in this way have a strong forward motion and resolve themselves often. George argues that lines created using this concept are even more likely to resolve than lines created using chord-scales. He notes that scales cover and obscure the underlying chords, but that triads played in this particular way allow you to explore all of the different available tonalities.

The other piece the Garzone’s formula is his Random Chromatic Approach, which consists of two basic principles:

The constructed melodic lines MUST stay within an interval of a Major 3rd.
The same intervals CANNOT be repeated consecutively in the same direction within the chosen Major 3rd.

[url="http://davidvaldez.blogspot.com/2008/12/etude-combining-all-elements-of.html"]Example[/url]

[url="http://davidvaldez.blogspot.com/2008/12/matt-ottos-triadic-chromatic-blues-6.html"]As a blues example and with analysis[/url]

I have heard a lot of sax players (sorry I know this is a bass forum) using a triadic approach in their playing like Ben Van Gelder, but this seems to be taking it to the next level. I'm not sure if Ben or others have actualyl studied with garzone.

I would be interested to hear what some of the improvisors on here think of this...

Hi.

I got these as well. I found them to be alright to play, but then I have practiced similar things quite a bit before, but more just out of practicing scales and patterns in scales naturally.

Overall I don't think i will be adding them to my practice regime as I don't see myself using them in an actual playing situation. They are great for dexterity, coordination etc, but I would rather practice this in conjunction with fragments/shapes I would actually use in my playing (saying that, I'm sure one or two may be what i'm talking about, but I haven't played through all of them). I feel it is better to see it as a concept. i.e. come up with a shape of say play a note go up a forth play three scalar notes then done a forth for an example, rather than using the strict examples laid out in the hanon. (I think that makes sense!?)

Ornette Coleman was one for doing this, known for coming up with a lick or shape and running it though every conceivable option to make it into a complete exercise.

But thank you for sending them to me and no doubt I will dig them out occasionally just to have a go at some of them.

I have definitely read somewhere that he played it and it was doubled. Although checking a few discog sites it looks like he isn't on track 1...I feel lied to and cheated! But glad I learnt it anyway.

[quote name='XB26354' post='373596' date='Jan 7 2009, 10:21 PM']Not strictly a bass one as it is Greg Phillinganes playing what sounds like a Moog, but well worth it if you persevere - very funky and some great licks.
Also fun (if hard!) to play on "real" bass. Not one to sight read though
Cheers
Mat[/quote]

It is a strict bass part though as it is the main man Anthony Jackson. The part was later doubled with the Moog. It is one of my favourite bass lines ever, ridiculously funky. I love playing this bassline. Cheers for the actual transcription though.

I know of three people who bought these cases and they seem much better made than most. Great value. I'm currently thinking about getting on for my double as well.

I like the banjo. Especially jazz banjo. I also sometimes play three notes in a row that are the same. I'm currently in jazz purgatory.

It's great with double bass. I have used it with a double on many occasions. Also a guy from my college used it at a gig. Malcolm Creese (great great bassist) was supposedly there and was very impressed with the sound supposedly.

Let me know via pm or call me if you are interested. You are welcome to come and try it. Got some other interest this week.

To answer the question about the fanned frets, to quote ralph novax:

Why Fanned-Fret®?

The "fanning" of the frets results from manipulating the scale length of the bass side of the neck relative to the treble side: the fret spacing is wider for the long scale and closer for the short scale.

Looking inside a grand piano, or at a harp, we see that the string lengths vary with the pitches of the strings. But fretted instruments are traditionally constructed to a single scale length, negating the benefits of scale length relative to pitch. Since there are relatively few strings on most stringed instruments, compromises are made and string gauges are manipulated for workable results. Players, accustomed to the compromises of single scale-length construction, are often pleasantly surprised by the richness and clarity of Fanned-Fret® instruments. When the fanned-fret concept is applied to the six-string guitar, the resulting instrument has a "focused" sound - clear, articulate and balanced. Some players say "more in tune" or "more accurate."

One of the real advantages of the Fanned-Fret® concept lies in its application to instruments like the seven-string guitar, eight-string guitar, five-string bass, six-string bass, baritone guitar, and mandolin. The range of tunings and number of strings force compromises that make these instruments poor performers or even impractical when constructed with the traditional single scale-length. The fanned-fret concept addresses those problems and makes these intruments playable and practical.

Why is Scale Length Important?

Scale Length influences both the tonal quality of the notes produced and the tension of the string at a paticular pitch. The tonal effects of scale length are crucial to the final tone of the instrument. Woods, hardware, and electronics act as "filters" to string tone. They do not produce tone of their own and only modify input from the vibrating string. If paticular harmonics are very strong, or altogether absent, those characteristics will be present in the final tone of the instrument.

Sorry, I'm talking something like this.


Just to clarify, I am looking to sell both the combo and cab together initially, but it there is no interest in both together, I will split, but want to see if people are interested in both first. Cheers.

[quote name='bilbo230763' post='382474' date='Jan 16 2009, 03:02 PM']Supplementary information:

Chord scale for a Melodic minor scale in C

C min/maj7
D m7
Eb Maj7sharp5
F 7sharp11
G 7
A m7b5
B m7b5[/quote]
As bilbo said, just with a few things I found useful. Obviously we tend to use the ascending form of the melodic minor. When applying to jazz (and other music obviously) you can get a lot of value from learning the melodic minor harmonies, especially when used on the dominant.

Cmin/maj7 (can be applied in IImi in Bbmaj and Cm when it occurs as a tonic)
D7susb9 (Ami7b5natural9/D)(Apply as a sound in V7 situations)
EbMaj7#4#5 (apply in tonic and sub dominant situations)
F7#11 (apply to V7 and IV7 situations or when F7 is a tonic such as in a blues)
G7 b6 (apply to V7 situations)
Ami7b5 (apply in minor cadences)
Bmi7b5 or V7 alt (b9#9ª11b13) (altered)

Therefore the mode generates 4 dominant (V7) sounds
V7 sus b9
V7#11
V7 b6
V7 alt

So over G7 you can use:
F melodic minor which generates G7 sus b9
C melodic minor which generates G7 b6
D melodic minor which generates G7#11
Ab melodic minor which generates G7 alt

Unless you have an 8 string fanned fret hybrid guitar/bass ala Charlie Hunter laying about, it is a straight sale only.

6 monthly bump!!

As it says above, for sale again as it has only been gigged once since I put the advert up and due to a move has been in storage so it exactly the same condition as when I listed it. Mint. Selling the rig to fund my 8 string purchase which due to the exchange rate changes since i originally wanted it that there is a lot more to pay!

£700. PM me or call 07914814348. I can only answer calls after 6pm, but if you text I can call back later.

[quote name='mcgraham' post='286440' date='Sep 18 2008, 09:12 AM']Are you going for electric or electro-acoustic? I have to be honest, I reckon that the wood choices for electric guitar are of even less consequence than they are for bass.

Saying that , I'd suggest alder for an even balanced sound, but if you want something a bit warmer then I'd suggest mahogany. If you're lucky you might even be able to get some figured mahogany for at least a top like on that AJ Fodera. If you were going for electro-acoustic I'd recommend mahogany or rosewood. Walnut can be a bit dead sounding (IME). My favourite sounding acoustic wood combo is/was rosewood back and sides with sitka spruce top. Sounded sooo crisp and clean, it was wonderful.

I thought you sold it as you were primarily focusing on bass. Have you been sorely missing 8 string playing?

Mark[/quote]

I think it is going to be an alder body, maple neck, plain ebony board. Still debating what top/matching headstock to go for...I'm going to see if he has anything in stock that he can offer. I'm trying to keep the custom costs down and would rather put the money elsewhere. All being good the pickups should be a customer Nordstrand and a Dimarzio vintage-p90 soapbars.

I sold it to fund repairs and on the other side, to concentrate more on my bass playing. But as you have said, I am really missing playing it. Now I have a bit of money "spare" I've decided to get one made. A bit like a joint xmas/birthday gift for myself by the time it is made.

Here's the deal...I don't know what wood combo to go for on my new custom build Wes Lambe 8 string!?

Some of you may know I had to sell my last one as I had to pay for double bass repairs and general Uni living, but I bought this "used" so didn't have a say on woods. Now I can afford it, I am getting one custom made.

I'm completely stumped. I originally wanted to go with the matt garrison/janek etc buckeye burl fodera wood/black hardware combo, but now I don't know after seeing charlie hunters new Traugott...Any other ideas for best looking wood/hardware combos?

The main body is either walnut, mahogany, alder or swamp ash. Neck can be mahogany or birdseye maple. Fingerboard can be maple, rosewood or ebony. Of course other woods are available at extra cost. Like wenge for the neck or another wood for the top. I'm trying to keep other wood options out apart from a top as I can't afford much more on the price as I am already going for hardware/pickup upgrades.

This is what they look like (this is my old one):


and I am currently thinking of this sort of wood combo, but I am open to suggestions!?:

I normally "refuse" (in a nice way of course) to do more than 2 hours...it's not normally beneficial, unless its longer for a special reason (last minute gig with a new band where you need to practice a 2 hour set etc)

If there's more time people think its alright to have a lunch break, multiple fag breaks (lasting forever).

Go in, focus for two hours, and get away on time.

If they think its going to take more I ask for materials in advance to learn on my own, then when we get together if everyones put the graft in, it shouldn't be that problematic.

Regarding amount per week, its hard to say depending on the standard of all the guys in the band, some people retain what happend one week and can do it a fortnight later no problem, some have memories like sieves!

[quote name='ped' post='254424' date='Aug 4 2008, 02:19 PM']Oh that's interesting. Mine was taken from a video he did with Dave Weckl, I guess it was a condensed version? Great, now I can't play the 'Spider'!!!
ped[/quote]

Yeah that's where this one is from...or did I make it up!?

It works anyway.

If you are into shapes (which some people hate to practice as it isn't music! ) a good one is a scale divided by strings. so a g major scale with 3 notes on each string, but skipping a string would look like this:

G------------------------------------------------------
D-----------4-5-7---------5-7-9-----------7-9-10----
A-------------------------------------------------------
E----3-5-7---------5-7-8---------7-8-10--------------

Sounds a bit like an allan holdsworth guitar line if you get it really fluid.