alexclaber

[quote name='Chienmortbb' timestamp='1490144541' post='3262679']Not with a good amp you won't.[/quote]

When turned up loud it is impossible to make completely silent (i.e. noise-free) high power full-range bass rigs - the combination of a very high sensitivity tweeter and a huge amount of gain in the amplifier means that you will hear preamp noise which would be inaudible when running that same preamp through a home hi-fi system.

Caveat: If you have age or damage related hearing loss then you may think an amp has no noise when it actually does!

[quote name='4 Strings' timestamp='1489794067' post='3260011']
For any small BF cab you'll need a pretty juicy amp.[/quote]

Fortunately that isn't the case with any of the Gen 3 cabs - they're all very efficient for their size, so need less power than other similarly sized cabs to get as loud. They'll handle a LOT of power though, so with more power they'll go as loud as most cabs twice their size. Progress!

The Gen 1 Compact was in continuous production from late 2008 to mid 2013. The Gen 2 models started appearing in mid 2010 and their production ended in mid 2013, when the Gen 3 models took over (initially just 12XN cabs, then later the 10CR range started growing).

We don't make anything with 15" drivers now because our 12XN drivers are better for high accuracy sounds and our 10CR drivers better for more coloured yet still relatively full-range sounds.

[quote name='Conan' timestamp='1489571439' post='3257954']
Oh right! So there is no such thing as a "Gen 2 Compact" then?
[/quote]

No.

One.

Barefaced Generation 1 was: Compact, Big One, Vintage.
Barefaced Generation 2 was: Midget, Super Twelve, Super Fifteen, Big Baby, Big Twin, '69er (many available with tweeters as the 'T' version)
Barefaced Generation 3 is all the current Barefaced cabs, with 12XN or 10CR drivers.

The Compact continued to be made alongside the Gen 2 models after the other Gen 1 cabs were discontinued. All the pre Gen 3 cabs went through various revisions due to improvements in construction methods, finish and other details.

It sounds like something in the amp has gone microphonic (i.e when it vibrates it generates electrical noise). The BT2 has very high accuracy sound reproduction so it'll show up any faults like that which other cabs may hide.

[quote name='geoff90guitar' timestamp='1489330576' post='3256066']However I did try my Trace SMX250 in a BF Gen 3 cab and was knocked out, but, it was indoors and not at a gig.
I'd love to purchase a pair of these, but again if Im disappointed I'd be losing a lot so it would be risky.[/quote]

One month trial period!

I used to do this in my student days - just use your volume knobs on the instruments!

[quote name='largo' timestamp='1487548218' post='3240742'] Head says it's fine (why would manufacturers put a volume that only works halfway) but heart says I shouldn't be pushing an amp continuously at these settings.[/quote]

With all gear matters, trust your head rather than your heart - the opposite of musical decisions!

[quote name='LewisK1975' timestamp='1486643495' post='3233468']
Ha ha, Point taken, I should have expanded my statement by saying that I also have not heard any other complaints about roqsolid covers until I read this thread..
[/quote]

Hopefully that's because we caught most of the faulty ones before they went out!

[quote name='Wooks79' timestamp='1486664506' post='3233708']Big Baby 2 goes down to 33 Hz, is cheaper, and 26lbs in weight, but I guess then you would have a poweramp to find (and carry separate)[/quote]

The FR800 is an active version of the BB2. The usable frequency range is the same for both - the difference in the specs is that for the FR800 we've quoted frequency response within 3dB limits, not usable frequency range (which is wider).

[quote name='mcnach' timestamp='1486562178' post='3232791']ah! I had no idea you switched. Have you switched for the whole range?[/quote]

Yes.

[quote name='LewisK1975' timestamp='1486558340' post='3232732']Surprised to hear this, I've ordered 3 roqsolid covers for my Barefaced cabs and they've all been perfect.[/quote]

If 1 in 3 had been wrong we'd have changed years ago! But we sell a lot of covers and even 1 a month wrong is annoying, especially if it's gone to an overseas customers.

[quote name='machinehead' timestamp='1486554643' post='3232666']
My Barefaced branded (Roqsolid) cover is well made and gives good protection to my BB2 but... it's about an inch too short! How that happened I have no idea?

Frank.
[/quote]

Sorry to hear about this - QC problems like this were one reason we changed manufacturer. If you'd let us know at the time we'd have been able to get this exchanged with Roqsolid for a correctly made cover.

[quote name='Marty Forrer' timestamp='1485981102' post='3228285']
Just thought I'd put this out there. I have two BF One10 cabs and these will likely be the last cabs I ever buy. So, I invested in a pair of BF covers for them. Gotta say, they are so well made, so well padded and fit so well, they are well worth the 50 pounds each. I could have got some made for cheaper, but I'm glad I went with these.
[/quote]

Glad to hear it!

These are our new Barefaced covers, not the Roqsolid ones we used to supply. Thicker padding, neater seams. We like them a lot!

[quote name='slowworm' timestamp='1485375448' post='3223527']I have to be grateful for the Hartke gear though - I have without a doubt got my 150 quid's worth out of it and I am not knocking it.[/quote]

Bargain! The approach I always recommend with our stuff is stick with your current head initially, rehearse/gig with the Barefaced cabs and see how the rig sounds/performs and then based on that info it's far far easier to choose an upgrade head with the right tone and power for your needs (and with some heads you realise the old head is actually perfect, it was the cabs holding it back - though in this case I think you'll appreciate more power with smaller but more potent cabs). If you change both at once that can introduce too many variables and make it harder to find what you really need.

I like to think of the the chain as bassist-bass-(optional FX)-amp-cab-bassist The bassist determines both what they need and how they play, so that's the biggest two variables (and what they need depends just as much as the player as on the band they're in or the music they play). Without hearing the bassist play and hearing how they want/need to sound in the band(s) they're in it's very difficult to recommend what all the other components of the signal change should be. But one at a time isn't too hard if you know what you're doing!

[quote name='markstuk' timestamp='1484666725' post='3217305']What do you like/dislike about your current rig ?[/quote]

Hey, that's my signature question!

[quote name='Chienmortbb' timestamp='1484667643' post='3217320']...once you exceed XMax your driver is operating outside of the control of your amplifier and in a very non linear fashion, under only the the control exerted by the suspension of the driver and the "spring" in the cabinet.[/quote]

Yes but that works both ways. Once you exceed Xmax the amp cannot drive the cone with the same motive force because BL (magnetic field strength multiplied by metres of coil in the magnetic field) drops as more coil leaves the gap.

[quote name='Bill Fitzmaurice' timestamp='1484658293' post='3217213']Even if they did there's another consideration. Going beyond xmax doesn't cause damage, reaching xlim/xmech does.
[/quote]

Yes, that's what I was implying but failed to make clear - if Xlim is twice Xmax then this simplistic model would tell you it takes four times as much power to reach Xlim as Xmax at a given frequency but thankfully the reality is much less worrying. The Xmax to Xlim ratio is a critical thing - before my Barefaced days I creased four woofers due to their low Xlim to Xmax ratio, low efficiency (needed a really powerful amp to get loud) and their low tuning. And I was using a 30Hz high pass filter on the amp!

Some things to point out:

1. Few amps have flat response below 50Hz - there's usually some kind of high pass filtering, even if it's just the side effect of capacitors in the signal chain.
2. Although some basses can have relatively high output in those super low frequencies that isn't part of the inherent sound of bass guitar - too much super deep low content and it doesn't sound musical.
3. Speakers do not behave linearly beyond Xmax - the motor strength drops and with good designs the suspension compliance decreases, which means you have to put a lot more power in to get the excursion that oversimplified graph suggests.

Bear in mind that plenty of bass cabs with low excursion (<3mm) drivers are tuned to ~60Hz and used with amps in the 300W+ range - if they were behaving as suggested by these graphs people would be replacing all the drivers after their first loud gig. Woofers get blown a fair bit in some cabs but not that often!

[quote name='molan' timestamp='1484351718' post='3214975']
It's not strange at all Chris, just basic integrity.

We won't stock anything that we don't believe has a basic level of quality and that we can stand behind. Our reputation rests on supplying decent quality goods that we know will perform well, won't break and won't deteriorate rapidly.

Too many customers with extremely bad experiences in terms of quality control and build for us to be able to sell them as a reputable dealer
[/quote]

I'm sorry to spoil the fun but unless you can come up with some hard evidence regarding "extremely bad experiences in terms of quality control and build" then this is unacceptable behaviour for a commercial user whose business is in direct competition with Barefaced.

I know how many cabs we're selling and I know the extremely high levels of customer satisfaction we're achieving. If almost every single dissatisfied customer is going to you and never telling us about their problems then I'd like to know - but somehow that seems very unlikely...

[quote name='sratas' timestamp='1484305147' post='3214474']...Barefaced cabs are idiot proof.[/quote]

They pretty much are, for a given value of idiot!

If you're playing clean uncompressed bass guitar through a 1000W amp, so that you're occasionally clipping the amp, then the average level will be about 100W, probably less.

If the guitarist in your band is playing through an overdriven Marshall 100W head then the average level it'll be putting out could be about 50W. A Marshall 4x12" is much more efficient than any 4x10" bass cab. To get that 1000W bass amp to keep up with a Marshall half-stack you'll need a pretty big cab if you want a clean uncompressed tone, despite it having ten times as much amp power.

If you're turning your amp to halfway on the master volume then you're probably using full power quite a lot of the time. Few amps require full gain on the master to reach full volume. So if your 500W amp is loud enough, change your drummer for a slightly louder one and it won't be and you'll need more cabs or more amp power.

I should clarify my previous post - an isobaric 2x12" will have the same max output as a 1x12" with the same speaker but will require twice as much power to get that loud.

With the same speakers in all the cabs, equal loudness gives: 50W into 2x12" = 100W into 1x12" = 200W into isobaric 2x12"

The SP212 is an isobaric 2x12" so will only be as loud as a 1x12" made with the same speakers. Unlikely to be loud enough.