WinterMute

Just to add, the Geddy Lee turned up this morning, and the difference between it and the Squire is a lot more than I expected in terms of playability.

The Geddy is the most comfortable bass I have ever played, hands down, and fast like you wouldn't believe...!

The VMJ is still a very comfortable bass to play, and with it's new Wizard pups it sounds great, but it's not a patch on the Fender.

Bugger, I gotta find me a Jaco signature now haven't I?

That white Ricky is bloody lovely mate!

Very nice work.

I've just switched back to Jazz's from a Warwick 5 string Thumb, and I've doe exactly what you are thinking of, bought the "Jaco" looking fretless VMJ.

I have small hands and I have to say the Jazz neck is by far the most comfortable neck I've found, I felt right at home on it almost straight away.

Prior to getting into The 5 strings, I had Precisions and Wals, radically different neck profiles, neither of which I was completely happy with.

I've also bought a Geddy Lee, which is supposedly as slim as they come for a Jazz.

Bought a pair of Wizard pickups from Dave, arrived in good order and in excellent time.

Many thanks.

Received in good order and great time, thanks very much Dave.

[quote name='51m0n' post='485044' date='May 11 2009, 01:35 PM']Don't get me started on overuse in mixing - I thought I was as bad as the next for that, until I heard a recent mix from a friends studio in which everything was so unbelievably squashed I couldn't tell where anything ended and anything else started. It was an amazing sound, but not nice IMO. I like to get the bass and drums sat together, and maybe a rhythm guitar or two with a couple of group comps, bass normally with the drums. But nothing too over the top, just a tad of 'glue'. Same for BVs, and Lead vox (seperate comps though). Limiting in tracking is important (esp on drums and bass) but I try and mix without a limiter anywhere - then master afterwards. I know people who just ram everything into the red on ProTools with the safe button engaged and say 'Ta-daaaa loudest best-est mix ever' - sounds like cr@p though![/quote]

rofl

No, don't get me started on over compression....!

I've been mixing and recording in protools at -14db for several years, certainly since I started habitually using 88.2Khz 24 bit. My mastering engineer is Sean McGee at Abbey Road, he's always commenting on how much better for him it is to have mixes that aren't crushing the transients in the digital buss and already compressed to buggery. The masters I get from him are quite as loud as anything short of some "maxed to 11" pos, but they have space and depth and movement, qualities all but forgotten by modern production.

[quote name='51m0n' post='484967' date='May 11 2009, 12:17 PM']Other than the highlighted statement I think this is a great post.

Unless you set a compressor to an unbelievable extreme then the statement:-

[b]What compression really does is makes you lazy in the observance of your dynamic control, and it robs you of the ability to use volume as expression[/b]

is hogwash IMO & IME both live and in the studio. You are saying here that no matter how light the touch a player could not make the result quieter if a compressor was on.

That is not the case.

With sensible/normal compression settings on a bass (even for fairly obvious or heavy compression) the player still has the ability to back off the volume from their fingers to below the threshold that the comp is set at. Since no one ever sets a threshold at -infinity db. It just is not done.

Now anywhere below that threshold dynamic control is as if there were no compressor.

Up to that threshold you have to back off by the ratio setting more than otherwise.

In reality with any ratio I've ever used up to about 10:1 this is not even hard to do. It just takes a couple of minutes of playing around to find the required amount of gentleness to get the effect you are after.

So you can in fact play with dynamics when you have a comp engaged, especially if its set to do some sensible levelling.

Also the perceived loudness of a sound is not just as a result of its volume, but also its envelope and timbre and while a compressor has an effect on both, playing more gently will still have a huge effect on both even with a comp engaged.

IMO & IME both live and in a studio.[/quote]

Yeah, I guess thats what you get for playing rock and recording rock and metal for a living!

There is a general inability to discern dynamics anyway, due to the over use of compressors in mixing, my point is that in the bassists I've seen who employ a compressor in a live rig they tend to do exactly what you suggest they don't, i.e. smash it flat with a very low threshold, tons of ratio and as much gain as the system will allow. Every note at exactly the same volume regardless of the input energy on the string.

Guitarists do this all the time, although in my experience a guitarist will also know when to turn it off.

Using a compressor the way you describe requires an understanding of the mechanics of the system, and some experience in using a compressor to enhance your sound, not merely bolster your level.

Of course it's entirely possible to employ a compressor sensitively to support an instrument in an ensemble, it's done all the time, my point is that most players will stack one on the live rig and let it do the job that their ears and fingers should do, hence "lazy".

Lots of players owe their sound to the compression effect to some degree, whether that is amp or effect compression, I wasn't suggesting every bass player who uses one is lazy.

[quote name='rslaing' post='484607' date='May 10 2009, 09:05 PM']Physical problems with your hands when playing bass, whether it be a narrow 4 string or an expansive 8,10 or more, is normally down to poor technique.

Spend some money on a good tutor..................[/quote]

In my case it's down to physiology, my wrist joints have been over developed and strengthened by years of martial arts, they don't have the radial angle movement needed for comfort on a long necked 5 string, the extension to the B string on the lower 5 frets or so just stretches the tendons and causes pressure on the nerves.

It's just the way I'm built. I have no such issues on a 4 string bass.

[quote name='Golchen' post='484638' date='May 10 2009, 09:37 PM']I never really get what a compressor is for?? It sounds like it will magically improve my playing and if so I NEED one now![/quote]

A compressor makes loud bits quieter and quiet bits louder, essentially compressing the dynamic range, or the difference between said loud and quiet bits.

Once the loud bits are closer in volume to the quiet bits, you turn everything up (or down, natch...) to get the over all level.

Compressors give an evened out loudness to a performance, so that despite how you play, everyone hears everything at a more even level.

Used to extreme, compressors also have a tonal shaping aspect.

[quote name='Kongo' post='484321' date='May 10 2009, 02:18 PM']+1
Then you have the option of two basses.

How did you injur yourself playing one? Was it your hands or techneque?
I play a very broad 6-string and my hands cramp up on 4-string with thin necks.[/quote]

I have small hands, and the span on a 5 or 6 string was making me stretch my left hand on the lower end of the neck, couple with the scale length of the Warwick and the angle of my wrist when playing the bottom of the neck was causing problems during gigs, long session and rehearsals, it never became a real problem as I moved into studio production before i did any real damage, but it bloody hurt at the time.

I find the Squire jazz to be much easier to play for extended periods.

I'll limit a bassist on the recording phase, just to stop clipping, but otherwise will attempt to reproduce the sound he already has (unless it's crap).

If the player has no dynamic control, I'll suggest a compressor on his rig, I'll use a dbx 160 usually, if he has a preferred unit, I'll play with that a little, again it;s what the guy sounds like that's important.

Compressors in the mix are an entirely different proposition, often they are employed to "set" the instrument into the mix, not to alter the characteristic of the sound, however a Urei 1176 or a Joe Meek Opto will give a good warmth to the sound. Rupert Neve's 9098 compressor by AMEK is my weapon of choice for hardware, followd by an LA 2A or a Focusrite RED5.

Plug-ins can be a pain, but the Sony Oxford Comp/lim is very good, as is the standard Digi Comp/lim 3, Guitar rig and Digi'd 13 are good for a bit of tine shaping too.

I used to use the 160 live, it's essentially invisible, there a decent opto-compressor in the Line 6 110, which I use lightly now.

What compression really does is makes you lazy in the observance of your dynamic control, and it robs you of the ability to use volume as expression. Now, if your in a balls to the wall metal band, that's irrelevant, and a compressor is essential for a skull crushing sound, if you're a slapper compression makes your technique a little more sloppy, as all those triplets will be audible regardless of whether you catch them.

If your a jazzer, I'd think you'd want to be in control or every nuance of your playing, and automating the volume would be limiting your expression. I'm no jazzer though, and many jazz players I've recorded will compress at amp or pedal board.

My name is Richard, I play rock, I use a compressor...

[quote name='warwickhunt' post='484389' date='May 10 2009, 05:02 PM']Have you got an offer from eBay/PayPal of 10% off your purchase price when you pay via PayPal?[/quote]

Had one last month, used it on a new bridge for the Squire, it would have expired before this purchase anyway.

FWIW I've gone back to 4 strings after 20 odd years of a Warwick thumb 5, I found the extra extension for my small hands was causing tendon and carpal tunnel problems, (not massively, but after a couple of hours, it definitely hurt)

I'm back with Jazz's now, and the only pain is in the fingers from all the extra playing I'm doing.

However, I'd definitely recommend a 5 string and not a re-jigged 4, it's just easier, and a good 5 will end up replacing your 4 live if you need the extra extension.

[quote name='Protium' post='484297' date='May 10 2009, 01:31 PM']Ended on £485, gone to anyone here?[/quote]

Yep, me in the end.

Seen 'em go cheaper occasionally, but seen 'em go for more too, the cheapest price in the UK seems to be £620 from Peter Cook's without a case, so I reckon that's a good price.

Another vote for the Boss Bass Chorus (the old brown one).

It doesn't muddy the bottom up like some choruses do.

The EBS unit is also pretty damn good, and I've gotten great results out of a Roland Space Echo/chorus, but only in the studio.

Indeed it is mate, Squires doing fine, got some roundwounds on it, looking at some Wizards at some point and probably a better bridge, but I want to get the Geddy Lee sorted out first.

I see your a bit of a martial artist too.

Not me mate, sorry, someone else with a William Gibson fetish...!

You're the second person to mistake me for the other WinterMute today.

Have we met?

Been using the name for many years at MacRumors where I'm a mod, and it's been in my email accounts for ever.

William Gibson fans usually wave as they go by.

Congrats on the job mate, and that is precisely what I'm talking about.

A degree will not get you a job these days, and far too many degrees are dumbed down to serve the bottom line, but the good ones take effort and skill to gain, and the effort of graduating gives skills way beyond the subject.

It really depends on what you study and who teaches you, the Music Tech dept at TVU (where I am a senior lecturer) is staffed by some heavyweight industry pros, you get taught studio techniques by Pip Williams (Quo and Moody Blues producer) and Industry studies by Andy East (ex chairman of the MPG) t name a couple.

The studios are pro level and are designed by a 24 year veteran engineer (me) and we have plenty of them. We haven't learnt this stuff out of a book, we still practice our craft (Pip did the last Nightwish album).

The bottom line with all Music tech type qualifications is not the level of the degree or diploma, but the individuals ability and talent and their willingness to put the hard hours into their career.

We are never less than honest about our graduates employment possibilities, as the studio recording profession has changed beyond recognition in the last 10 years, and what the MT courses at TVU provide is the skills to succeed in an industry diversified into commercial audio, audio post, game sound design, live music performance, artist management etc. etc.

We are beginning to see acceptance of degree qualifications in more structured professions like Audio Post, but if anyone tells you that getting a degree will get you a head start in a career in music, they are having a laugh or trying to sell you a bridge.

The real worth of a uni education is the personal growth and expanded learning opportunities, and the chance to learn a complex subject from people who have the t-shirt.

It's not for everyone, and not everyone will get a job upon graduation, but everyone who goes to uni come out a better person imho, albeit a poorer one!!!

If anyone wants to talk about studying at Uni (and not just mine, this honestly isn't an advert) drop me a line.

After selling my 87 Thumb 5 to a nice bloke in the States last year I decided to get a 4 string.

Bought a Squire Vintage Modified fretless Jazz off the e-place, 1 week old, the bloke bought it to try fretless and didn't like it, my gain.

The VM's getting Wizard 64's and a better bridge when I find the time, just having fun getting back into playing.

Looking for a Geddy Lee as well, which will become my main bass once I find one.

Not much point posting pics, y'all know what Jaco's bass of doom looked like when it was new.

He's confirmed it's a Geddy, I'll just have to watch it all week and see where it goes to, I think he's quite relieved that there's a bid on it, he's expecting more than £400 now...

[quote name='~tl' post='478297' date='May 3 2009, 03:49 PM']It looks like a Badass II to me, but it's not very clear.[/quote]

The serial number reports the place and date of manufacture, all consistent with a GL, but so far no-one can confirm what model that number is for, any where on the net that can correlate Serials to model type?

Unfortunately I'd forgotten you can't cancel an auction once someone has bid on it, so our mystery bidder gets to eat his amp after all!

I guess I'll have to go through the bidding round.

[quote name='maxrossell' post='478277' date='May 3 2009, 03:23 PM']I had no idea these were CIJ models.[/quote]

Yup, all the Geddy Lee's (and some of the other signature models like the Jaco) are made there.

I've contacted the vendor, he's happy to let me have it for the BIN price, but I want to be sure it's a Geddy Lee, the bridge doesn't look like a Badass in the pics.

He'll be back in Scotland on Tuesday and he's gonna have a look at the bridge.

Wateroftyne was right, he doesn't know what it is.

[quote name='wateroftyne' post='478249' date='May 3 2009, 02:51 PM']WTF? Which lunatic stuck a bid on it?

Just buy it, man!

[/quote]

Missed it by seconds!!!

I'm going to track him down and feed him his amp.