WinterMute

[quote name='bythesea' post='519849' date='Jun 21 2009, 11:25 AM']A fretless stick? He does have a few basses, including a 10 string (though it's a 5x2) and a 6. Lists them and shows the tunings he uses (14 on "The Enormous Room" alone!!!) on [url="http://www.manthing.com/tunings.htm"]this[/url] page of his website.[/quote]

Well, there's the half fretless NS Stick.... 8 strings, multi-mode, strung like a bass and not in one of their weird "my hands are on backwards" tunings... [url="http://www.stick.com/news/halffretless_ns.html"]Half-fretless NS Stick.[/url]

Loads of fun.

Astonishing intonation on a fretless, and some very interesting uses of the hardware, I can't say I particularly liked the song, parts of it were beautiful, but overall it didn't do a lot for me.

I watched some of the other videos, Morning Star is a display of virtuoso level, and he is clearly an exceptionally talented musician.

I'm always a little underwhelmed by these solo bassists, most of them have such advanced technique, but few of them write decent tunes.

The only solo bass pieces that remain on my iPod for long are Jaco's.

Someone get him a Chapman Stick, for god's sake!!

[quote name='foal30' post='519100' date='Jun 20 2009, 09:40 AM']my old man has been to literally thousands of gigs

and he says this Leonard Cohen stuff was at the top of the pile. A+ stuff.
a spiritual experience by all accounts.[/quote]

One of the best gigs I have ever seen, and I've seen a few biggies in my time.

It wasn't a one-off either, I took the in-laws to one of the repeat performances later that year, and it was another absolute cracker.

Never seen one man hold a 20,000+ seat stadium in complete silence while he recites a poem...

There were people crying in the aisles.

As I said, god-like.

[quote name='Huge Hands' post='518853' date='Jun 19 2009, 09:14 PM']Was just wondering what the red fiver with maple neck was the bass player is using?

Any ideas?[/quote]

It's the Roscoe Beck signature Fender, appropriate being as he's Roscoe Beck I guess...!

I was at that gig, Cohen was god-like.

[quote name='dr.funk' post='517758' date='Jun 18 2009, 07:53 PM']I understand what you are saying but here is an interesting article on the matter of Hifi vs Monitors

[url="http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/jun02/articles/monitors.asp"]One[/url]
[url="http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/jul02/articles/monitors2.asp"]Two[/url][/quote]

Yes, I saw those articles when they were published, there's certainly more choice in the lower end of the market these days, and I must say I have mixed very successfully on a pair of KEF 105.4 Reference hi-fi speakers before I got my PMC's.

I spec Dynaudio M1 and BM5 or 6a's in the studios at the Uni, and we also have some PMC sets too. They certainly kick out some serious SPL, but we do try to teach moderation in monitoring levels for tracking and mixing.

I think it's probably a better use of your money to buy a cheaper pair of speakers in the first instance and spend some money learning how to record and mix properly, this is somewhat akin to buying a starter bass to learn on then getting lessons from a great teacher before buying some custom monster.

Good speakers (and good kit in general) is no guarantee of good recordings.

[quote name='escholl' post='517064' date='Jun 18 2009, 12:52 AM']Not sure what you're trying to tell me here. They didn't cut off at 300Hz they cut off around 100Hz when installed properly (IIRC) and they cut off with a less steep slope than bass reflex speakers, for that matter they're not a bass reflex design they're acoustic suspension and thus have much better time domain response in the low frequency for a box that size. Not sure what "tunable porting" is, but if you're somehow referring to the ability of the end user to physically change the port, I can't really see where there would be any advantage in a monitor having that capability, nor can I think of a single monitor with that capability.

No idea what orientation they were designed for, but based on the driver layout both versions should have been used vertical, on their side to minimize horizontal response lobing and improve the imaging. The response peaks at 2K in an inverted V shape, like I mentioned -- this doesn't hurt vox or guitar IME, it helps bring them out a bit more so you can place them better. YMMV.

Sure, they were marketed well -- so are a lot of other products. I never said they were the [i]ultimate[/i] monitor or something, simply that there were factual reasons behind their usefulness and success. Not sure why people are so vehemently trying to prove to me that they're no good -- I've used them, I've studied them, I've done this before and this is not my first day, thanks.

The Rokits have a hyped frequency response IME, agree about the Tannoys to a point and I think it probably goes without saying that the PMC's will likely be good. Not sure if you're talking to me or the OP in the last two paragraphs however.[/quote]

I wasn't really trying to tell you anything, I was just carrying on a themed discussion on the merits of monitors, specifically the NS10...

The lack of ports on any speaker severely limits the usefulness of the box on the response of the speaker, a closed box design like the NS10 gets very little help from the resonant frequency of the boxes internal design, (in this case, none, it's just box) better designed monitors have an internal structure that allows the volume to resonate at low frequencies, the ports to the front or rear allow that resonance to be projected and thus support the limited low frequency response of the raw driver. Tunable ports use various methods to allow the alteration of that resonant frequency to adjust the speaker to the needs on the room. PMC do it, Tannoy used to do it in the larger monitors, Urie do it, few others.

The addition of any EQ peak in the design of a [i]monitor[/i] speaker is always a bad idea, as it forces the user to compensate and that means the user has to understand the curve and know enough about audio to avoid its effect, the 2K lift in most small box nearfields plays to the strengths of standard hifi speaker design and to small speaker systems like radios, TV and ICE. This is one of the reasons the NS10 was liked so much despite actually being quite a poor unit, a mix on NS10, when played through a standard hifi, would benefit from the enhanced presence that band brings, inducing that sense of impact that hi-fi speakers are designed to give.

The clue to the orientation is in the writing on the box, original NS10's (the famous "tissue paper over the tweeter" model) were designed to stand up like hi fi speakers. The Studio model was supposed to sit in the more bridge friendly horizontal orientation, but there was no difference in the design bar an improved tweeter that made the response flatter, as you not, the sideways orientation buggers up the imaging, which is why the dual concentric design works for imaging.

I'm not trying to pick a fight, and you can't actually buy NS10's new anymore (or can you?), but the NS10 simply isn't the best monitor for inexperienced engineers, and the OP was looking for advice.

[quote name='Rimskidog' post='517043' date='Jun 17 2009, 11:54 PM']And FWIW, you don't need an NS10 driver to do the subkick trick. Any speaker will do it.[/quote]

...but that white speaker cone makes it so much [i]cooler[/i] to use and NS10 driver...

[quote name='escholl' post='517002' date='Jun 17 2009, 10:54 PM']I think the idea was that they were accurate in the time domain with minimal bass overhang, and had a fairly smooth frequency response in practical application, which peaked around 2kHz or so and let the detail on instruments such as guitars and vocals come out more clearly. The frequency response also has a bit of an inverted V shape to it, which is often cited as one of the reasons they tended to sound harsh but translated well to other systems. Interesting fact, most people mounted them incorrectly.

I've used them a few times and I liked them as a tool (hence my desire to get the AE version), but then for some reason I like listening to music through (most) studio monitors and wouldn't mind a set of [url="http://www.in2guitar.com/stereo/ureiad39p.jpg"]these[/url] in my living room (simply because they look awesome -- that's right, buying speakers on [i]looks[/i] ), so I suppose there's no accounting for (my own) taste ^_^[/quote]

They cut off at 300hz, they have no tunable porting, they didn't have aligned elements, and the originals were designed to stand upright as you note, the "Studio" version had filtered tweeters and were designed to sit on their sides, but that buggered up the imaging. They all honk like a constipated goose at 2K, which is where the presence in a bass is (well, between 1K and 2.5K) and that really hurts your vocals and guitars too.

No offence but these are really average speakers that have been excellently marketed.

Oddly if you power them with a Yamaha GC 2520 (I think) amp, they sound pretty good, this was the amp they used when they designed them.

Having said all that, I have used them on many occasions and have gotten good results out of them, I just find them much harder to mix on that good (and obviously more expensive) speakers.

The KRK range is very good, the Rockets aren't all that expensive, the Tannoy Reveals are very nice, the dual concentric design give excellent imaging and time alignment. If you can find a pair of PMC TB2's on evilBay they are very good but need a decent amp.

In the end, understanding what a speaker is telling you is more important than having great speakers, good engineers will get good results from almost anything.

[quote name='escholl' post='515728' date='Jun 16 2009, 08:43 PM'][i]Supposedly[/i], the woofer makes a good kick mic as well, if you reverse wire the speaker up as a dynamic mic. I've heard a few different studio types mention it, but I've never tried it, so it could be complete bollox.[/quote]

This is entirely correct, I have one mounted into an 8" tom shell, it's excellent for recording the real low end woof of a kick drum, but you need to ally it with a good kick drum mic, my choice is the EV RE20 or a Beyer M88.

A dynamic mic is, in essence, a speaker operating in reverse.

On the question of monitors, true monitors are not good for actually listening to music, they are tools. Hifi speakers are coloured to make all music sound good.

I've never bought the NS-10 argument, they are simply crap, why should I have to suffer listening to crap speakers during a mix.

I use Dynaudio M1's or BM5a's, my mixes sound good on them and good on anything else, a good mix has little to do with the speakers provided you know what they are telling you.

If yo want some real monitors, get these, if the career bombs out, you can always live in them...! [url="http://www.dynaudioacoustics.com/Default.asp?Id=284"]Dynaudio Acoustic M4+[/url]

I stuck a Gotoh 201 on my Squire VMJ fretless, and while it didn't alter the tone a great deal (a little more zing maybe) it did bring the sustain out a treat, the damn thing goes on forever (holds unplugged bass up to ear....).

I have a badass 2 on the Geddy Lee but as it's a standard fitting, I can't comment on the effectiveness, but that bass sustains like a b*stard, and has tone to spare.

The Badass is a much heavier beast that the Gotoh, which has a hollow back, but both are infinitely better than the bent piece of tin that comes as standard.

Obviously the Gotoh is at least half the price of a Badass.

Lovely work mate, well worth the effort.

My Squire VMJ has had a few mods, it's got a Gotoh 201 bridge and I shimmed the neck (thanks t the great "Shim Your neck" thread).

I grabbed some Wizard 84's from obbm here on BC, but have yet to get them installed, that's next on the list.

I might throw an East into it at some point, although with the earthing and shielding done its not noisy and the Wizards are going to make a big difference.

I'm really liking the passive thing atm.

I'm also planning some seriously radical mods for my Geddy Lee... a black pickguard1

I got mine a few weeks ago, it's a great bass. I understand it's the best selling Fender Signature model, and not without good reason.

They can be had for under £500 off ebay, Peter Cooks are still advertising them for £610 (but never have stock... ).

They sound great, and have one of the truly great Jazz necks, it's a joy to play.

Mine is a little grubby, a few dings here and there, but it exudes solidity and feels like a bass that will just go on getting better.

There was some talk of early models having hardware problems, but this one (a 1996 I think) has no problems at all.

I confess to always wanting one because Geddy Lee was responsible for me picking up a bass in the first place (not to mention some truly awful caterwauling), but after playing a Warwick Thumb 5 for 20 years and currently owning an NS Stick and a Squire VMJ Fretless, I really can't see where the extra bucks went in the Warwick or the Chapman.

Buy one, don't even think about it.

I've got the Squire, it's a very good beast for the money, sets up well with a Gotoh 201.

It's immensely playable and sounds pretty damn good straight out of the box, I bought a Geddy Lee just after I got the VMJ, it's a better built instrument, but it;s obviously much more expensive.

I wouldn't hesitate to recommend the VMJ as a starter fretless, and I think it's going to last a good deal longer than I initially thought, it may even simply stay on as primary fretless.

When I went to uni in 1982, I had a Sound City 200w valve amp, a Custom Sound 1x15 bin and an Aria Pro 2 Precision copy, in a room a little bit wider than a single bed and twice as long...

That sucker was LOUD, so I had to buy a hi-fi that was just as loud to play along with...

I had a blast in uni, I'm teetotal cos I'm allergic to alcohol, and this in a time when safe sex was a padded headboard.

The Line 6 Studio 110 combo is excellent for your needs i think, I got one for £100 off evilBay, it's got a headphone output that cuts the speaker, it's got good DI output with speaker emulation, and if you should need an amp for a bit of impromptu 3am jamming with your mate, your good to go.

It's even got an iPod input for jamming along with your faves, all in a 1 foot cube that actually doesn't sound bad at all.

[quote name='steve-soar' post='502163' date='May 31 2009, 11:43 AM']I remember when we bought our first colour telly, about 1974, after a couple of years it started to go on the blink and every time this happened, my Dad would slap it and it came back on. This went on for a good few years and I naturally assumed, as a young boy, that if something didn't work properly, then a good old slap would sort it out.

This has served me well throughout life.


How much did you pay? Three years is a good innings for one of these, maybe time to retire it if the repair is going to be costly.[/quote]

"Impact maintenance" as my dad used to call it!

Works better on old stuff than on your new Apple laptop, trust me....

[quote name='jakesbass' post='499513' date='May 28 2009, 12:21 AM']I sold an 87 warwick thumb 5 thru to buy an Alembic MK5 deluxe. Best move I ever made. I am a much better player because I now sound like I want to... result: I never put the Alembic down [/quote]

My Warwick was a 87 Thumb 5 thru as well, not many of those about, mine had EMG's and gold hardware. I didn't go for an Alembic though..!

[attachment=26336:DSC_0012.jpg]

I moved a Warwick Thumb 5 string off to the US last year, and was sort of thinking about giving up bass in favour of the NS Stick, but then played a mate's Jazz and thought "I'd like one of those to noodle around on".

Bought a VMJ fretless off a basschatter, modified it a bit, then picked up a Geddy Lee.

The answer is that neither is remotely like the Thumb in character, but the Geddy Lee is one of the best basses I've ever played, and the VMJ is a cracking bass for the money.

I'm not sure I'd go back to the Warwick now if I had the choice.

As ever it depends if you know what you're doing with the pre/power amp balance and the tonal/dynamic controls.

I've heard guys with killer SVT + 8x10 rigs get some weak-arsed sounds, and some guys with cheapo copy basses and old HH amps knocking out great tone.

I picked up the Studio 110 amp a month or so ago, simply because at £100 off Evilbay it did everything I needed in a 1 foot cube.

The presets suck, and of the 4 modelled "states" only the SVT and the clean (fender I think) blues models are worth a damn (the grunge MESA model is awful).

However, with a little tweaking and a definite idea of what I'm after soundwise, it soon turned up with some very pleasing and useable sounds.

Then the kicker: the DI uses speaker simulation and sounds great going into my Protools/PCM studio rig, very punchy indeed.

In absence of the GK mini combo, it's a keeper... plus the wife loves the fact there isn't a sweaty great bass amp and cab cluttering up the room anymore.

I'd love an SWR Redhead 2 x 10, but as I'm only just back at the noodling around stage it'll have to wait.

That's a serious bit of wood right there...!

I love natural finishes when the wood looks that good.

Congrats mate, use a coaster eh?

[quote name='benwhiteuk' post='495286' date='May 22 2009, 03:53 PM']The single ply black pickguard works so well with the black body, black binding, and black blocks. Proper cool [/quote]

Definitely considering that for my new Geddy, looks reet grand.

[quote name='jezzaboy' post='495457' date='May 22 2009, 06:26 PM']Need help quick! Buying ramorraw!

Just sold a mex jazz but am missing it already. Every home should have one so am looking for one. Now here is the tricky bit.

I like the white Classic 60`s bass in white with the old style headstock and tunning pegs, but it`s £635. Has anyone got one/had one?

Is it worth the cash to have fender on the head or should I get the white squire cv bass at £279 which seems to be the dogs dangalies?

Jez[/quote]

I can't comment on those particular models, but having recently bought a Squire VM fretless and a Geddy Lee Jazz, I can comment on the quality.

The Squire is a perfectly acceptable bass, well finished with decent hardware and a good range of sounds. It plays comfortably and, for the money, is a very good buy indeed.

The Geddy Lee feels more solid and sounds incredible, it plays like a dream. The finish is about the same, but the hardware and pickups are much, much better.

The Fender is heavier with a slightly higher output.

If you intend to get a lot of use out of this bass, buy the Fender.

We have a Nexo rig at the Uni for the big stuff, 4 bins and a bunch of the small units for mid/hf FoH and monitors, got Allen and Grief desks.

We have a stack of the self powered JBL full range cabs and some subs with Mackie desks for the smaller gigs.

I have my eye on a flown Turbosound Flex array for the new theatre, but I need someone to give me £40K first!

I had an Aria precision copy for a long time as a kid, it wasn't a bad bass, and during the rehearsals and gigs it got beaten up a bit, the point was, every ding and scratch and mark were there because of something that happened and a lot of the time it was something i remembered.

I can't understand what memories a sanding disc and a blowtorch impart.

If in doubt, search!!

You know I looked at that thread earlier, but I didn;t make the connection.