AM1

[quote name='The Funk' post='451634' date='Apr 1 2009, 04:01 PM']You've got Clyde Stubblefield on your PC? (Seriously though, I think he does CDs just of drum tracks. If you can get hold of it, then you WILL have the original Funky Drummer on your PC).[/quote] [url="http://www.numericalsound.com/clyde-stubblefield.html"]http://www.numericalsound.com/clyde-stubblefield.html[/url]

[quote name='The Funk' post='451623' date='Apr 1 2009, 03:51 PM']So, as we've all said, listen to as much of it as possible. Don't overplay. Don't think of funk as something you need to learn from a book or a video, although any tips you can pick up from anyone might be useful.[/quote] The book stuff is useful from the perspective of tackling stuff like string crossing, but it's not the be all and end all I agree. [quote name='The Funk' post='451623' date='Apr 1 2009, 03:51 PM']If you're not playing with a funky drummer yet, it's going to delay your development. Given your thread about drummer/timing problems, you might have to get looking.[/quote] I've got a funky drummer, he's on my PC. [quote name='The Funk' post='451623' date='Apr 1 2009, 03:51 PM']EDIT: I hear a lot of people saying you have to lock in with the drummer, and while that's true you also sometimes have to boss the drummer with your playing to keep them from speeding up or dragging. It's a tough skill but I think quite useful to develop. I don't think I have it yet.[/quote] I've never bought into the philosophy that everyone should follow the drummer. That only works if the drummer is rock solid and that's fairly rare. The bass player in my view, definitely has a role to play. If the drummer speeds up (in a way that's not pre-meditated or planned) then I refuse to go with them and I hold back the time til they realise who's the tempo boss. But if you can get a drummer that can keep time AND tempo and lock in - that's poetry! Like I said, I've found one, he's on my PC and he's in no position to argue.

[quote name='kennyrodg' post='451597' date='Apr 1 2009, 03:29 PM']Hey Ann-marie. The book you should get is Funk Fusion Bass by Jon Liebman [url="http://www.jonliebman.com/Books.html"]http://www.jonliebman.com/Books.html[/url] This book comes highly recommended by Nick Carey btw.There's a full section on practising 1/8ths 1/16ths etc and it brought my speed up a treat.Not quite Rocco speed yet but i now have the same Bass he uses in the vids....well nearly. There's a few excersises from the book [url="http://www.nickcarey.co.uk/page10.htm"]here[/url] on Nick's website.Hammer ons,slides etc It's a great book,buy it. [/quote] Brilliant! Just ordered it. Happy Days

[quote name='alexclaber' post='451594' date='Apr 1 2009, 03:28 PM']By all means learn Rocco's stuff to get your right hand technique happening but please don't use it on a gig for a good few years! Alex[/quote] Duuuurrrrrr

[quote name='alexclaber' post='451574' date='Apr 1 2009, 03:11 PM']Put the bass down and step away from the Tower of Power! Rocco's style is so hard to pull off correctly and sounds so bad when done wrong that it is the last place to start with funk. The world is full of bad funk players who followed Mark King's slap playing and Rocco's fingerstyle (if they were good then the later would sound good but there'll never be any true funk in that Level 42 plinkily plonkily silliness). Aim to funk with as few notes as possible, that way even when you're a beginner you'll sound funky. Once you get busier the note spacing, length, accenting, tone, position vs the beat, and other phrasing, becomes more and more critical. Alex[/quote] Aaah Shaddap and don't be a killjoy

[quote name='molan' post='451491' date='Apr 1 2009, 01:59 PM']Can't beat Rocco: [/quote] That's exactly what I like. Really great technique and control. A big part is feel for sure but for this particular example of the genre, technique plays a big part.

[quote name='bilbo230763' post='451510' date='Apr 1 2009, 02:14 PM']Being a musician attracts a wide variety of individuals and the agendas of each of them is different. Wayne Shorter took up the saxophone because it was shiny, others did it because it got them girls. Some people are attracted to the romantic idea that they are an 'artist' (I know I am) and, like the artist/musicians they read about, they like (need?) to think of themselves as 'uncompromising' and project themselves accordingly. Their self image is an essential part of who they are and they need to maintain that at all costs (its a common human trait). So, given the scenarios we are talking about, it is inevitable that some people are going to be in a 'bad space'. Some can't wait to gig because they want to be seen and so are out there before they are gig ready. Some never want to gig because they are so frightened of failure that the rehearsals are never good enough for them to acknowledge that the band is ready to take that next step. The glamour of this industry, in all its complex forms, is what keeps it going but it is also what creates the problems you are describing. It is people politics and it is not just confined to bands. You 'just want to play'. Others may want to play well; others to play to a level of excellence that is all but unattainable. Some just like the social aspect of being in a band and 'talk a good gig' others will always be there, on time and ready to play. Like all groups of people, the human dynamics are profound and need careful managing. Lots of egos in a room each pushing their own agendas will always lead to friction of some sort but this needs to be (and can be) managed if you are able to stand back and figure out what motivates people, individually and collectively (you would be amazed at how many people are afraid of success). Its about learning to compromise and about finding ways to disagree without being disagreeable. Politics, as it is being described here, is an inevitable part of working with groups of people. I think 'human dynamics' covers it better as 'politics' implies something machiavellian and none of this is about manipulation.[/quote] In this instance it IS politics, not people dynamics. Rather not drag into all the details and haven't got the time but personal agendas are different to people dynamics. When I said I just want to play, it goes without saying that I want to play to a level of excellence, both individually and collectively. I am my own worst critic in this respect. I guarantee you no one out there can beat me up about perfection as much as I do myself. When you are forced to go ahead despite knowing that certain circumstances/elements are less than perfect and it's either a case of get on with it and do the best you can (but knowing it could be much better) or don't do it at all, it's just frustrating. Maybe I am the problem and too much of a perfectionist. It won't be the first time or last time I'm accused of it! Hey ho.

[quote name='lowdown' post='451483' date='Apr 1 2009, 01:52 PM']No its not a tough riff, Its the swing feel that Bootsy played, that tells it apart from a lot of guys i hear play it. Garry[/quote] I think what he meant was it's getting the groove that's the difficult bit. It's all about groove!! Listen to Pick Up the Pieces, there's a break section in it near the end, then this unbelievably funky bassline comes in...there really aren't that many notes and it is probably not difficult to play the notes...but man that groove....now THAT is the sh1t! THAT'S what I want to be able to do!

[quote name='51m0n' post='451473' date='Apr 1 2009, 01:40 PM']Whilst its true that harmonically funk is pretty simple, a lot of funk feel is damned hard to master. Even Sex Machine, which is not that tough of a riff, is really taxing on people coming from a rock/punk/blues or even jazz rhythmic background. Bootsy laid down some of the all time ultimate funk grooves with JB, and a lot of them use very natural sounding, but really hard to nail 16th note syncopation, and the real trick is he often played lines that syncopate off different 16th notes each beat in the bar. TOP is devastatingly hard in comparison, just because its so fast. Sure you maybe can play the line, but if you dont play it as solid as Rocco and grooving as hard then you have a way to go, and very few people can really do it (I know I seriously struggle when I start tying to play things like On The Serious Side - it sounds simple but its a killer).[/quote] Exactly right! [quote name='51m0n' post='451473' date='Apr 1 2009, 01:40 PM']The notes used are almost irrelevant, you only need the root an octave, a fifth (maybe) and some mutes to be funky as hell. Notes don't make funk, groove does.[/quote] I got a book of disco and funk grooves a few months ago and then realised it's my rhythm and technique that needs serious work to play what I really want to play.

[quote name='crez5150' post='451466' date='Apr 1 2009, 01:33 PM']There are no hard and fast rules.... That's what makes players unique....[/quote] I think there's definitely two mindsets in that respect. Those who dispense with the conventional and do their own thing..and those who criticise them for it!

[quote name='The Funk' post='451460' date='Apr 1 2009, 01:29 PM']I'm a bit confused about your right hand technique. You should alternate your index and middle finger for each note. If you're playing with traditional floating thumb, then it shouldn't be resting on the pick-up. Can you describe it a bit more?[/quote] Hello, no it currently only rests on the pick up when I play notes on the E string, then when I play other strings I damp the one above with my thumb, so it's not true floating thumb....do you know what I mean? I alternate my index and middle finger for the notes but when I cross strings I move my thumb. As opposed to always having my thumb on the pickup and crossing strings with only two fingers. Capiche?

[quote name='alexclaber' post='451394' date='Apr 1 2009, 12:42 PM']Regarding syncopation and note choices, there are really no hard and fast rules in funk. Likewise tonal choices - a huge range of techniques and resulting tones work with funk. Spend enough time listening to the greats and it should all come fairly naturally. I came to funk from rock and metal via the Chilis. Blood Sugar Sex Magik is the only album I've ever learnt start to finish and I still think it's a great one to enter funk through - the punk/rock crossover makes it that much more accessible as do the more song oriented arrangements. I haven't honestly learnt much funk by rote since then - some Larry Graham, some Rocco, some Jaco, but they're more for getting technique sorted slapwise or fast 16th note funk. I've listened to plenty though and hand me any bass and drop me in any funk band and I will lay it down like a mother. I will say though that you're best steering clear of Rocco's style for a long time - it is seriously hard to get right. Bizarrely Jaco's 16th note lines are much easier to nail because they are far less reliant on the left hand muting. Nowadays I do play those heavily muted thuddy 16th grooves but it's taken years get that vibe happening - most bassists end up going all growly bridge pickupy and trebly when doing 16th note funk but sounds so cheesy in comparison. All about the FEEL dog. Alex[/quote] Thanks for the answers. I love RHCP as well! The thing I find most difficult on the right hand is playing with my thumb on the pickup and crossing strings without other strings ringing and also knowing which fingers to use on which strings. The floating thumb type technique is almost instinctive but I could probably get more speed eventually if I anchored my thumb. I need some of these videos! Where are they!

[quote name='The Funk' post='451108' date='Apr 1 2009, 05:29 AM']I think somewhere along the line someone has started a lie that funk is slightly advanced and requires some kind of pre-existing technical expertise. I think that's total bollocks. If I had any students, I'd see nothing wrong with getting them to learn songs like [i]Papa Was A Rollin' Stone[/i], [i]If You Want Me To Stay[/i] or [i]Tear The Roof Off[/i] at an early stage. There's nothing to it![/quote] It is more advanced for a beginner, i.e. it is easier to play 8th root note punk bass but the funk stuff is rhythmically a bit more difficult. It's the "feel" - I don't think you can artificially create it, you either feel it or you don't. I think it was more the techniques such as percussive stuff/muting that makes it look technically difficult.

[quote name='The Funk' post='451107' date='Apr 1 2009, 05:22 AM']If you like Rocco you should just stack up on Rocco's videos. I don't like Tower Of Power very much - but he's a good bass player! Funk's very simple. Rhythmically, all you need to know is that: 1. there's a big accent on the 1 and a smaller pair of accents on the 2 and 4. You can play wherever you want in there - pick your spot and make it count; 2. there are two main types of feel, straight and swing-funk - the best example of swing-funk is [i]Superstition[/i]. In terms of scales, Dorian and Mixolydian modes because there are a lot of II-V chords typically. If you don't know any modes, then minor and major blues scales and licks are just fine! The only thing you'd be missing out on really is the major 6th-minor 7th thing you get.[/quote] Heya! Thanks for the advice. I have managed to craft up a few funky basslines but it was more from what I can hear in my head, and only now can release from my fingers, not by any scientific means! That's the problem for me going onto another instrument, I can hear what I want to play, I just can't make my fingers do it! Scales and modes - I am revisiting a lot of this stuff but it's kind of frustrating doing it off a laptop while also trying to play, I need to find a book which covers all of that, plus arpeggios and licks. But yeah - ToP is an acquired taste, not like Parliament, where most people "feel" the funk straight away. It was a lot harder to get the funky "feel" on the jazz, have I mentioned how much I LOVE the FrankenPrecision. There are some seriously slinky sounds lurking in this thing! It blows the jazz away on tone!

Looking for any recommendations for tuition guides to funk techniques...like scales/rhythm stuff. I mean for stuff like Parliament/Funkadelic, Stevie Wonder, James Brown and Sly & The Family Stone, but especially ToP/Francis Rocco Prestia. I absolutely love this stuff, I'm just nowhere near up to playing it, but hey nothing wrong with having goals!

[quote name='The Funk' post='451098' date='Apr 1 2009, 04:45 AM']I have one! Just can't find it at the moment.[/quote] That clearly means you don't use it. So, even though you're a dick (hey you said it not me) I'll let you sell it to me!

[quote name='endorka' post='451095' date='Apr 1 2009, 04:31 AM']The Korg MA30 is the most appropriate metronome in my opinion; does the job exactly, has an earphone out, and even without this is loud enough to play along with a double bass, is small and cheap as chips; [url="http://www.korg.com/Product.aspx?pd=129"]http://www.korg.com/Product.aspx?pd=129[/url] Jennifer[/quote] Hiya, many thanks! That's EXACTLY what I was looking for. Some outstanding functions! Cheers AM

[quote name='YouMa' post='451076' date='Apr 1 2009, 01:46 AM']Well your buggered, sorry stranded then. Surely its better and more fun to play over a looped wav file,and a laptops not that big?[/quote] Fun? FUN?! Who told you this was fun! Pah! I'm not taking a laptop everywhere just to hear clicks! Plus - playing bass every day beside a laptop is too distracting, that needs to stop imminently, too many people pinging me on MSN/Skype, email etc, I just mainly ignore it though mehe!

[quote name='ironside1966' post='451072' date='Apr 1 2009, 01:39 AM']The cheapest solution would to record the clicks on to CD, minidisk or IPod.[/quote] Already got clicks on my Ipod. No flexibility.

[quote name='YouMa' post='451064' date='Apr 1 2009, 01:29 AM']I think it would be worth it just for all the features for practice on yer todd,im hankering after one.[/quote] Oi! Stop transferring your GAS onto me and go and buy one. So you can get fed up of it after a few weeks and donate it to me. Ho Ho

[quote name='YouMa' post='451055' date='Apr 1 2009, 01:18 AM']Its a tiny little box,but sounds really big,i have seen 2 come on here in the last few months,have a look on the korg website they have a demo video,its pretty impressive.[/quote] Is it the PX4D? Quite an impressive box of tricks, but A ) I'm a cheapskate and B ) I'm a cheapskate.

[quote name='YouMa' post='451048' date='Apr 1 2009, 01:11 AM']Could you not get something like a korg pandora they have a click backing track effects etc on them. You can pick them up cheap 2nd hand.[/quote] I have heard of these but haven't seen one, but I believe it's similar to Tascam, which I have, but don't really want to take it away from home all the time.

[quote name='YouMa' post='451044' date='Apr 1 2009, 01:09 AM']The rules dont apply to women as they are in short supply bass playing wise,so all are welcome. Especially ones who wear rubber. [/quote] Will a sweatband do?! Ho ho.

[quote name='YouMa' post='451041' date='Apr 1 2009, 01:05 AM']Is your drummer crap or something isnt he your metronome? If you are practicing at home cant you just play along with drum loops or something.[/quote] Drummers (and bass players) that can keep perfect time but maintain feel are a rare breed, but it can be done. I use drum loops already (and always looking for more!) but for some of the practice techniques I have in mind, basic in ear clicker will fit the bill much better and I hate having to sit beside my PC, portable solution is the way, then I can also take it with me when me and FrankenBass are in transit.

[quote name='YouMa' post='451034' date='Apr 1 2009, 12:51 AM']I may start my own forum now,for rare groove funk and jazz bass players,no riff raff or pastiche punk kids who cant really play,haw haw haw haw.....Only joking.[/quote] What if you like both Can I come in, it's cold out here!