RichardD22

On 29/01/2020 at 21:32, Bassassin said:

@Frank Blank Regarding a book, I don't think - at this stage, at least - it would be possible to write anything definitive, because what's known about vintage MIJ stuff has huge gaps filled in with largely speculative info. Because of the nature of the industry, unfortunately  a lot of it will probably stay that way. Also - I have to say, trying to find consensus among the various people studying & discussing this stuff online would probably be harder, more problematic and more divisive than Br*x*t!

@phil.c60 You wanna see some Brazilian porn, do you? Oh I bet you do...

Meet the Giannini AE10B:

But compare these two catalogue shots:

I've actually dug out a lot of pics of these old Brazilian beauties - they're understandably pretty common south of the Panama Canal - and they all feature very dark, typically unvarnished fretboards with shiny shell inlays, and tend to have a fairly big gap between bridge & pickup. And the manufacturer's at pains to point something out on the trc:

I'm inclined to think they used a sneaky pic of an MIJ (Chushin) Faker for the first catalogue pic - after all, they all look the same don't they? And who's going to notice? Apart from some sad sod with way too much space in his head and time on his hands, in 40-odd years' time.

Anyway, that's enough Braziliana - although it doesn't actually end there - Giannini weren't alone, so if you ask nicely, I might show you a Finch one day. When I think you're ready.

Back in the day, there wasn't any litigation against Rick copies - in fact despite the "lawsuit" guff that gets bandied about, there wasn't any litigation against anyone, just a mistimed threat that never came to anything.

Which leads quite neatly to your second point - they sort of did. There weren't many well-known brands making copies in the 70s who didn't also have their own original ranges, and some, like Ibanez and Aria Pro II made the transition to high-end, pro-level original instruments incredibly successfully. Most people probably won't know that Ibanez' prestigious Artist range first appeared in 1973:

Interesting choice of bridge on the bass...

Brilliant stuff yet again! Those ibanez look lovely. 

19 hours ago, Bassassin said:

Actually, I've always wanted to write a book. I have tried to get something started a few times, but so far I'm struggling to find a cohesive narrative combining Japanese basses & guitars of the 70s and 80s (with a focus on the Rickenbacker bass copy) with graphic sex, violence, and Lovecraft-esque eldritch horror. Art can be such a struggle...

It appears that Chushin was one of Japan's biggest guitar manufacturers of the 70s era, and their instruments were sold worldwide with a plethora of different brands - in the UK, common names like Columbus, Avon, Grant, CMI, Saxon, Sumbro, Grantson etc were all predominantly Chushin builds.

With most brands being importer names, the best way to pinpoint who made what is to tie a manufacturer to a single brand (eg it's known that all 70s MIJ Ibanez was made by Fujigen Gakki) so when the identical instrument turns up with a different name, you know who made it. With Chushin, the exclusive brands were Maya and El Maya, which were owned by a Japanese trading co/exporter called Rokkomann.

This pic is the nearest thing to proof that basses like yours were Chushin:

The  biggest problem with positive ID is the number of different factories making instruments during the 70s copy era. Most people with a bit of an interest will have heard of Matsumoku & Fujigen but there were literally dozens - possibly into the hundreds - of manufacturers, from big mass-producers to little backstreet woodshops, all making good copies of Fenders, Gibsons, Rickenbackers etc. Many of these will have been short-lived & disappeared without a trace.

Very few records were kept, either by manufactures or importers, so what we know comes mostly from surviving catalogues and examples, plus a bit of testimony from people who worked in the industry at the time.

With Rick copies it's sometimes easier to know who didn't make a bass, rather than who did. Instruments made by Fujigen, Matsumoku, Kasuga and Yamaki all have particular build traits and combinations of details & hardware that make them easy to ID but there are a lot of Fakers where it's educated guesswork, and a few where it's anyone's guess! Even with the Chushin/Shaftesbury type there are a couple of quirks & variations which make it a bit less certain -  fretboards & inlays vary, some are unvarnished and have real MOP inlays, some have translucent plastic scratchplates while others are solid white. This may not indicate different manufacturers, as details sometimes change over the years.

And some might be made in Brazil - but that's a completely different can of worms...

Your sense of humour would translate well into a book too! Would be interesting to read about all the commercial elements and nuances of the fakers and the litigation elements. You've probably enough material from the posts on this forum alone! I imagine the Japanese communities would be interested too. 

Not taking anything away from the quality instruments the fakers made but it makes me wonder if these fakers put their mind to a single brand akin to Gibson, Fender, Rick etc how they'd have fared commercially and within the realms of popular culture. 

That Maya bass pic is just like mine but less battered!

It really is a can of worms. I think you hit the nail on the head that it's better to work out who it's not made by. 

All fascinating stuff again, many thanks. 

On 28/01/2020 at 13:59, prowla said:

Nut to 12th fret and double it.

Thanks. Didn't know that's how to measure them 👍

9 hours ago, prowla said:

What @Bassassin said.

My first thought was an Ibby with the mudbucker neck pickup, but on closer inspection that wouldn't have had the bodged cutout in the pickguard.

As to why someone did that to the pickups, I don't know; it looks barmy to me!

The neck joint must be weak there, so it might need filling and re-cutting.

The changes are reversible and stock Ric parts will fit, in addition to vintage Japanese and current Retrovibe replacements.

This is my (Japanese) CMI, which I would say likely came off the same production line.

The slightly translucent pickguard shows more on mine, against the jetglo body.

 

 

That's a nice bass mate! The black and white contrast is striking. But yes, the bodge job on mine is crazy. The neck feels fairly strong still but i may have to repair, like you say. 

5 hours ago, Bassassin said:

As far as we know, no Korean manufacturer built a through-neck Faker in the 70s. However there's a theory amongst some vintage MIJ enthusiasts that some Japanese manufacturers had instruments shipped to Korea for assembly, as some sort of export duty loophole. Apparently Chushin (who I believe made this bass) had a Korean operation.

You should write a book with your knowledge and history! Amazing. So do you think mine is Chushin? Did they make for lots of brands? For info I looked under the pickups and there are no other markings of note. Thanks again

1 hour ago, prowla said:

It's probably a 33.25" scale length too, like a real Ric; the bolt-on ones tended to be 34".

Thanks. I assume i just measure the fretboard to find out. 

2 hours ago, Bassfinger said:

Not that I'm an expert by any means, but to my eye the writing has more of a Korean look than Chinese or Japanese. 

It's likely 30-40 years old, which makes it unlikely to be Chinese.  I wouldn't say it isn't Japanesemfor sure, but Japanese basses in that style are much more unusual, so by an amazing piece of guesswork and elimination I'm going with late 70's and Korean.

Hmm, interesting to know thanks. I will look into Korean history possibility too, thank you

5 hours ago, kodiakblair said:

@RichardD22

Glad you followed my advice regarding posting here. I thought the lads would have a better idea about your bass. 

Ah thanks mate. Yes indeed. And that Bassassin chap/chapess is a legend. 😁 Everyone has been very helpful, thank you

53 minutes ago, Raymondo said:

Don't worry It's just my silly sense of humour.....

John Hall, CEO of Rickenbacker Guitars is a notorious litigator and sues anyone or anything that relates to the "Fakers"

This very forum has been threatened by his highly paid lawyers in the past ..

I was merely combining the  the possibility of you being an undercover agent with a threat from my alter ego..Dr Ray Mondeaux.

Haha! Very good.... I'm a bit too low brow to have understood first time round😉. Scary that they would go after people on a forum just for discussing it 😬😬 cripes! 

3 hours ago, Billy Apple said:

No truss rod cover?

Nope. Nothing 😒

36 minutes ago, Bassassin said:

No reason not to post it here @MB1. He's not trying to sell it.

Hi @RichardD22 - that's a common, very good quality mid-70s Japanese-made 4001 copy. These were sold under various brands, and badged as Shaftesbury are the most common through-neck Rick copy in the UK. They also appear here badged as CMI, Cimar and JHS.

It's not 100% clear who made them but generally it's thought to be Chushin Gakki, one of the biggest Japanese manufacturers of the 70s & 80s.

Shame about the mods, but it would be pretty straightforward to return it to standard with replacement scratchplate & pickups. Recommend you join the Rickenfakers FB group for info, unbiased chat & contacts.

Interesting that it looks like the original bridge pickup's been moved to the neck position - there might be a code stamped underneath which can tell you its date of manufacture, and therefore an accurate age for the bass.

Apropos of nothing - the replacement bridge pickup looks like an early 70s Maxon bass humbucker. Cool old unit probably taken from an MIJ EB-0 or EB-3 copy.

Ah thats fabulous. Thanks for the info. Thanks for your information and support. Interesting about the humbucker. I'll take a look at the pickups to assist with provenance. All I'm trying to do is learn a lot more about my bass as it bugs me not knowing so your info and knowledge is greatly appreciated. 

3 hours ago, Raymondo said:

If vers a bit missin frum yer sign off wot shud a sed

On b' half ov  Mr Jon all......

The boyz 'l send yer rahnd my gaff !*

*_{See DOI thread in " Off Topic"  for context.😉}

Sorry, i don't understand...? 

Hello. Sorry for a cheeky first post. I have had this 20yrs and it was old when I got it and from other posts on here i imagine it's from 70s. I am pretty sure it's not a Rick but i have lots of questions if any of you kind people are able to assist please? Is it a 4001 or 4003 copy? What is the writing in the cavity? It has a neck through construction and is solid body and stereo sound. Someone has routed the which i understand does happen. But... What make is it? I can't find any examples of copies with writing like this in the cavity. What is the writing, Japanese? It appears to be under the lacquer.

I wonder if Bassassin or anyone else can advise please? 
Thank you!
Richard
From UK

Rick copy