ebozzz

Here's another Ashdown example and I owned this amp at one time. MiBass 2.0. Sounded nice and Ashdown claimed 600 watts. It may have been 600 watts but I never could get the volume to get much more than practice amp applications with a clean tone. I could get it louder by boosting the gain but that also added dirt to the signal. Not necessarily a bad thing but what if you don't want dirt? https://ashdownmusic.com/collections/legacy/products/mibass-2-0

They used RMS during that period. Now? I can't speak for all of their amp line but I owned a Peavey MiniMAX briefly. It was rated at 500 watts continuous @ 4 ohms. It performed very well and I liked the tone a lot. LOUD fan though.....

Ashdown often just uses something like "500 watts". There are quite a few others..... https://ashdownmusic.com/collections/heads/products/rm-500-evo-2-head

The Kilobass by itself only weighed 15 lbs and the preamp/power amp rig was heavier. They both killed but I'm glad that I don't have to lug that around any longer!

Wow, brief sidetrack. I found a couple of pics from early 2000. I had a rack then and I used a Peavey Kilobass head or a Peavey MAX preamp/power amp combination with those Genz Benz cabs. Each setup was rated at 350 watts RMS x 2 @ 8 ohms and 500 watts RMS x 2 @ 4ohms. Kilobass and MAX/power amp

I guess we aren't. You & Al seem to feel that Bugera listed their ratings for some nefarious reasons that you can't see beyond while I simply use what they stated as a baseline to get me in the ballpark of what I needed in an amp. Let's face it, if they had said it was 200 watts peak I would not have considered it. Even with their claimed specifications, the amp would still have to perform for my needs. It does. The same would be true of any amp regardless of how it was rated. It would have to meet my performance expectations. Let me ask this. Is the 1000 watts @ 8 ohms that Trickfish claims "eye catching"? Have you ever had an amp that was rated using RMS that under performed? As for finding cabs that will handle the stated output, my old pair of 8 ohm Genz Benz cabs are rated at 150 watts RMS. I've been using them with amps of various power since early 2000 without problems and I've never had any issues with getting the volume that I need or the cabs being able to handle the signal that I send their way. Now, I do listen to them and I'm not a gear abuser. I don't have a clue what their peak rating is but it's obviously more than 150 watts. The cabs work with each of my amps just fine. My 4 ohm Tank 1012 is rated at 600 watts RMS and 1200 watts peak. If my Ashdown & Quilter are 800 watts RMS @ 4 ohms, would that not put them in the range of 2000 watts peak?

Did Trickfish choose peak for the same reasons? How about Quilter? https://www.quilterlabs.com/index.php/productpage/bass-block-800 Pat Quilter was the "Q" in QSC. Isn't RMS based on a continuous signal? Is bass playing continuous or peaky? As for the doubt being cast, Al doesn't seem to have ANY doubt about that Harley Benton amp which costs about the same. Harley Benton didn't make their amp either!

I'm not disputing the fact that MANY manufacturers use RMS ratings. I'm saying that it's not the industry standard or ALL manufacturers would be required to use it. I can list several reputable manufacturers that don't.

Is it really? https://www.trickfishamps.com/amplifiers/bullhead-1k/

Al, once again, there is no industry standard. RMS is what some manufacturers use and others don't. Doesn't make what they claim to be fake just because they don't use what YOU want them to use....

I'm still perplexed as to why you keep saying things like "fake news" 2000W amp" when no definitive proof has been offered that it's not the 2000 watts PEAK that Bugera claims.

I've got a total of three cabs. A pair of old Genz Benz GB-12Ts (8 ohm) and a Boom Bass Cabinet Tank 1012 (4 ohm). The 12Ts have more of an old school vibe and the Tank is more modern sounding. Basses? I'm down to three total. Two Maruszczyk Elwoods (4 & 5) with rounds and a Fender Player Series P strung with flats. Each of my amps has different characteristics. With the controls set flat on each, the Veyron M is the more modern sounding of the three. The Quilter is probably the most vintage sounding but more because of it's feel than it's tone in my opinion. It doesn't have the top end of the Veyron but it may be more precise in it's articulation. The Ashdown is somewhere between those two. When taking those differences into consideration while comparing the three, the Veyron is just as loud to my ears. Different but just as loud....

I don't know who the person that you are referring to would have contacted that could have accurately provided that information. I do know that Uli Behringer would not and stated that they don't rate their amps in RMS because it doesn't accurately represent how an amp will perform for bass applications.

Al, I think you would be hard pressed to get anyone from Behringer to state what the amp's rating is in RMS. Believe me, I've tried! That's not how they rate them. Furthermore, when I first acquired my Veyron, most of the amps that I owned where considered to be 500 watts RMS @ 4 ohms. The Veyron was clearly more powerful. Now? I've got two amps that are rated at 800 watts RMS @ 4 ohms and my Veyron Mosfet. The Veyron is at least comparable in power to those two amps (Quilter Bass Block 800 & Ashdown Rootmaster RM-800 EVO).

That's the thing. There really is no agreed upon "industry standard". There is also some degree of debate regarding whether RMS ratings are the best representation of bass amp performance. Finally, I'm not sure how you got the 400 to 500 watt range.

It doesn't look "the same" but it does bear a strong resemblance.

Neither in my opinion. Both amps are pretty clean sounding.

I'd love to see the comparison. Uli Behringer admitted that they went after a similar appearance to the Streamliner.

Lots of amp manufacturers shoot for tones that are similar to other products. Even the Streamliner likely got it's inspiration from someplace else. I guess that I was mainly thinking about the engineering. If we opened up a Veyron T and a Streamliner, would there be a lot of similarities internally? I've never seen the inside of a Streamliner....

Other than the fact that there is a resemblance in the appearance, are you really positive that the Veyrons are absolutely knock offs? I do know that the power section is Bugera's own and not some off the shelf option....

They're both nice amps. It's a shame that so many are overlooking them due to the Behringer relationship. Mine is over three years old and still killing it!

You are correct Sir and I edited that!

My amps, Veyron included, all have more than enough volume for my needs. I stopped worrying about how many watts it had when I saw how it performed.

@Al Krow, The volume knob is notched and each click provides an increase in loudness. In my opinion it's smooth. My Quilter is very similar in that regard and my Ashdown seems to give you more earlier in the stage especially when the compressor is engaged. The Mosfet is definitely the more modern sounding of the two heads. The Tube has more of a low-mid presence with controls set flat on each in my opinion. I don't have much experience with full blown tube amps. The T does offer more warmth than the M but there wasn't a night & day difference to my ears with the gear that I had during the period when both were under my roof. The cabs that I had then all were a little more vintage sounding. They were a pair of old Genz Benz 112s which I still own and two pairs of Ashdown cabs without tweeters (Mi 10 & ABM Mini 408 Neo). The T isn't wild & woolly and the M isn't sterile. They're each just nice clean sounding amps but again, I do feel that T is warmer. My experience with compressors is also not very extensive. I've owned a couple of quality pedals that didn't get used much. I'm sure that there are better compressors but with the limited amount of usage that I have given the unit on the Veyron, I can't say that I've encountered anything that turned me off. Here's a video of the Veyron M being played by the same guy in the previous video that I posted. He's got the Ultra High & Ultra Low engaged which sort of sccops the sound....

For a period of time, I owned both the Mosfet and the Tube versions. My plan was to make a decision on which I liked more and the other would be returned to the vendor. I liked them both and couldn't decide. I kept each of them for more than a year until I sold the Tube to fund another amp purchase. Right now my amps are the Quilter Bass Block 800, Ashdown Rootmaster RM-800 EVO and the Veyron Mosfet. Who knows how they came up with the 2000 watts rating. 500 watts? I feel pretty confident with saying that I think it is more powerful than that. With respect to volume, it compares very favorably to the amps that I named above which are rated at 800 watts RMS.