ebozzz

And, the Veyrons may very well be 2000 watts peak without the cliff....

The company claims that it's 2000 watts "PEAK". You can prove with absolute certainty that it's not, right?

How so?

The 2000 watts isn't RMS or continuous power. Bugera states that is a peak rating. There's a difference between peal and RMS...

Are you sure?

I regularly use a pair of Genz Benz GB-12T 112 cabs with my Veyron. They're 8 ohm and rated at 150 watts RMS. Never had a problem getting enough volume for my needs...

I don't believe that I've ever seen those figures in any of their documentation but if accurate, it was an underwhelming 400 watts RMS.

Here's another Ashdown example and I owned this amp at one time. MiBass 2.0. Sounded nice and Ashdown claimed 600 watts. It may have been 600 watts but I never could get the volume to get much more than practice amp applications with a clean tone. I could get it louder by boosting the gain but that also added dirt to the signal. Not necessarily a bad thing but what if you don't want dirt? https://ashdownmusic.com/collections/legacy/products/mibass-2-0

They used RMS during that period. Now? I can't speak for all of their amp line but I owned a Peavey MiniMAX briefly. It was rated at 500 watts continuous @ 4 ohms. It performed very well and I liked the tone a lot. LOUD fan though.....

Ashdown often just uses something like "500 watts". There are quite a few others..... https://ashdownmusic.com/collections/heads/products/rm-500-evo-2-head

The Kilobass by itself only weighed 15 lbs and the preamp/power amp rig was heavier. They both killed but I'm glad that I don't have to lug that around any longer!

Wow, brief sidetrack. I found a couple of pics from early 2000. I had a rack then and I used a Peavey Kilobass head or a Peavey MAX preamp/power amp combination with those Genz Benz cabs. Each setup was rated at 350 watts RMS x 2 @ 8 ohms and 500 watts RMS x 2 @ 4ohms. Kilobass and MAX/power amp

I guess we aren't. You & Al seem to feel that Bugera listed their ratings for some nefarious reasons that you can't see beyond while I simply use what they stated as a baseline to get me in the ballpark of what I needed in an amp. Let's face it, if they had said it was 200 watts peak I would not have considered it. Even with their claimed specifications, the amp would still have to perform for my needs. It does. The same would be true of any amp regardless of how it was rated. It would have to meet my performance expectations. Let me ask this. Is the 1000 watts @ 8 ohms that Trickfish claims "eye catching"? Have you ever had an amp that was rated using RMS that under performed? As for finding cabs that will handle the stated output, my old pair of 8 ohm Genz Benz cabs are rated at 150 watts RMS. I've been using them with amps of various power since early 2000 without problems and I've never had any issues with getting the volume that I need or the cabs being able to handle the signal that I send their way. Now, I do listen to them and I'm not a gear abuser. I don't have a clue what their peak rating is but it's obviously more than 150 watts. The cabs work with each of my amps just fine. My 4 ohm Tank 1012 is rated at 600 watts RMS and 1200 watts peak. If my Ashdown & Quilter are 800 watts RMS @ 4 ohms, would that not put them in the range of 2000 watts peak?

Did Trickfish choose peak for the same reasons? How about Quilter? https://www.quilterlabs.com/index.php/productpage/bass-block-800 Pat Quilter was the "Q" in QSC. Isn't RMS based on a continuous signal? Is bass playing continuous or peaky? As for the doubt being cast, Al doesn't seem to have ANY doubt about that Harley Benton amp which costs about the same. Harley Benton didn't make their amp either!

I'm not disputing the fact that MANY manufacturers use RMS ratings. I'm saying that it's not the industry standard or ALL manufacturers would be required to use it. I can list several reputable manufacturers that don't.

Is it really? https://www.trickfishamps.com/amplifiers/bullhead-1k/

Al, once again, there is no industry standard. RMS is what some manufacturers use and others don't. Doesn't make what they claim to be fake just because they don't use what YOU want them to use....

I'm still perplexed as to why you keep saying things like "fake news" 2000W amp" when no definitive proof has been offered that it's not the 2000 watts PEAK that Bugera claims.

I've got a total of three cabs. A pair of old Genz Benz GB-12Ts (8 ohm) and a Boom Bass Cabinet Tank 1012 (4 ohm). The 12Ts have more of an old school vibe and the Tank is more modern sounding. Basses? I'm down to three total. Two Maruszczyk Elwoods (4 & 5) with rounds and a Fender Player Series P strung with flats. Each of my amps has different characteristics. With the controls set flat on each, the Veyron M is the more modern sounding of the three. The Quilter is probably the most vintage sounding but more because of it's feel than it's tone in my opinion. It doesn't have the top end of the Veyron but it may be more precise in it's articulation. The Ashdown is somewhere between those two. When taking those differences into consideration while comparing the three, the Veyron is just as loud to my ears. Different but just as loud....

I don't know who the person that you are referring to would have contacted that could have accurately provided that information. I do know that Uli Behringer would not and stated that they don't rate their amps in RMS because it doesn't accurately represent how an amp will perform for bass applications.

Al, I think you would be hard pressed to get anyone from Behringer to state what the amp's rating is in RMS. Believe me, I've tried! That's not how they rate them. Furthermore, when I first acquired my Veyron, most of the amps that I owned where considered to be 500 watts RMS @ 4 ohms. The Veyron was clearly more powerful. Now? I've got two amps that are rated at 800 watts RMS @ 4 ohms and my Veyron Mosfet. The Veyron is at least comparable in power to those two amps (Quilter Bass Block 800 & Ashdown Rootmaster RM-800 EVO).

That's the thing. There really is no agreed upon "industry standard". There is also some degree of debate regarding whether RMS ratings are the best representation of bass amp performance. Finally, I'm not sure how you got the 400 to 500 watt range.

It doesn't look "the same" but it does bear a strong resemblance.

Neither in my opinion. Both amps are pretty clean sounding.

I'd love to see the comparison. Uli Behringer admitted that they went after a similar appearance to the Streamliner.