Pirellithecat

Just the one ...... there's another on here if you wanted to make a pair though .......... ?  I'd just need an excuse to take a trip to Rugby .. 

Still available - now with original Mesa Cover.  Happy to deliver within 80 miles of Kendal or so.

Still the 12incher .............. pity to split them up really as the matching covers make a nice pair (ooh er missus!). 

Bought just prior to Lockdown, used for the last 2 years every other weekend in Covers band. 
Very Good condition.
Always transported/housed in their covers, and there's a spare Mesa Cover for the 1x12. 
Prefer to sell as a pair as they make a great combination. 

No boxes but happy to discuss collection/delivery/meet up. At the asking price I'd deliver within 150 miles or so of Kendal, Cumbria. 

More photo's if needed  

Ditto

  Lekato fine for crowd surfing within reason.  I'd guess 20 metres no problem.  I spend our sound check / first number out in the mosh pit/ bar and have experienced no issues with the Lekato.

28 minutes ago, Chienmortbb said:

Not ideal but put volume on the speakers at max and take the monitor out faders down to your desired level Or just take off all the knobs on the monitor speakers.

Great idea - I'll try it tomorrow!!!

4 minutes ago, Buddster said:

👆

Very good words there. 

Add in a loud drummer, a guitarist who has to play on 11 all the time, a vocalist who needs their vocals loud in the monitors,  keyboard player without their own monitor, a room with concrete walls, a small stage... 

I dont know why I did it for so long 🤦🏼

When did you see us play???  (minus keyboard)  🙄🤣

We really struggled with feedback initially, and certainly getting the gain sorted on the mics helped.
Surprisingly though it was the monitor/mic positioning/monitor volumes which proved to be the key. i.e The Monitors were much more important than I thought and once this was sorted feedback is no longer an issue. 
Things that helped
1)  Matching the stage position of the monitors  in accordance with the type of Mics has really helped, Cardiod/Hypercardiod, etc
2) Getting the monitor volume down.   Once the band's in full cry there's a surprising amount of sound for FOH on stage, so getting the idea that the monitor is just supplementing the sound that's needed really helps.  However, this it the most difficult aspect, as people never say " the Monitors Too loud" .      

3) Taken the tack of... "Yes, we can sort out the volume in a minute ....... for now it's just the relative level of each element not the overall volume", if the "balance is right we can adjust as the set goes on IF it's not loud enough.  So if someone asks to be louder they may be saying " I can't hear myself over the other vocals (etc.)".  So the balance could be achieved by reducing the other elements in the mix.        

Still need to remove all the knobs on the monitors to stop the band member deciding to tweak their monitors tone/volume during the gig!!  

Or just say "sod it" and concentrate on bass playing.

1 hour ago, Phil Starr said:

It's imbecilic. They don't need your word they can check this themselves in seconds by just speaking into the mic from the front, sides and back.

1 hour ago, Chienmortbb said:

Have you met  my band? The singer was convinced we had a faulty cable causing feedback once!

You mean it's not just me ???? ...... Phew, cheered me up no end! 

Hi - Started with Boss WL 20 = 2.4Ghz
Started using IEM's XVive = 2.4Ghz
Lots of drop outs
Moved to Lekato 5.8Ghz and kept using XVive 2.4Ghz
Problem completely resolved.
Pity really as the Boss Units are an order of magnitude better in terms of ease of use and quality.

On 23/03/2024 at 09:49, Davy said:

I've done both but kept my backline gear and was eventually bullied into using backline again by the rest of the band who use in ears but still use backline and an acoustic kit.

I have to say that using in ears and a preamp pedal instead of backline was a revelation, not just for the amazing sound quality of the bass but also it helped my singing, protected my ears and stopped me playing my bass really hard just to be able to hear it.

I would say that it's a bit isolating using in ears and no backline and I think my ideal scenario would be to use backline but just played at sensible volume with the PA doing all of the work out front.

Sadly that the rarely happens in a rock covers bands with 2 guitarists! 😭

You're not alone!!!

This is a great shame.
Might be the wrong thread, but is there an equally well built/great playing/well priced alternative with better customer focus??   

On 09/03/2024 at 08:12, Phil Starr said:

Well done, that's a perfectly valid way of getting some control though long term if you are handy with a soldering iron using a stereo /TRS jack in the insert will give you a more reliable connection. You'd need a short lead with two 'stereo' jacks with the ring of one connected to the tip of the other. A half inserted plug is going to be susceptible to knocking too far in or coming out and breaking the contact. Another way of splitting the signal would be to use something like the Behringer di120 before the mixer. The other problem is that you only have the mixer's tone controls so eq options are limited. I've got a SansAmp where the feed is post eq so I could take the XLR to FOH and the jack out to the in-ears channel so that would be another option which gives you more tonal control of the in-ears sound. I've got a BD121 here too I can check if that works the same way if you want.

 

TRS leads ordered as suggested.   I've tried the BDI21 as a splitter, but it seems to generate quite a bit of noise (as does a passive DI in the same role)  This is with feed to mixer from XLR out and "Instrument out" .   Have I missed something/done something wrong?   
In general though, if there's a spare channel, the idea of using a separate channel for FOH and IEMs seems to work pretty well - even if that's just a "feeling" of control!!.      

On 09/03/2024 at 08:12, Phil Starr said:

Well done, that's a perfectly valid way of getting some control though long term if you are handy with a soldering iron using a stereo /TRS jack in the insert will give you a more reliable connection. You'd need a short lead with two 'stereo' jacks with the ring of one connected to the tip of the other. A half inserted plug is going to be susceptible to knocking too far in or coming out and breaking the contact. Another way of splitting the signal would be to use something like the Behringer di120 before the mixer. The other problem is that you only have the mixer's tone controls so eq options are limited. I've got a SansAmp where the feed is post eq so I could take the XLR to FOH and the jack out to the in-ears channel so that would be another option which gives you more tonal control of the in-ears sound. I've got a BD121 here too I can check if that works the same way if you want.

 

Thanks for that - yep I too was concerned about the link and was going to get a proper link sorted (or in my case, more likely "shorted") once I'd tried it out.   I also have A BDI21 and can try that out later today.   The little box shown is an elegant solution though.     

Tried the set up on Friday's Gig and the whole FOH/Monitor arrangement works well - it's getting better with each bit of implemented advice.   
However, in an effort to reduce overall stage noise I put my bass cab close up to the wall adjacent to the Drummer in an effort to reduce stage volume ('cos with the bass in his lug hole the drummer might want things turned down a bit!!).    But it's a really dreadful/bassy venue and I could not EQ the very boomy/mushy bass out of the set up without ending up with a rather "Clanky" sound (on stage).   Great in ears though but very distracting trying to get the room sound OK.
Also, spent time EQing the guitar feed to IEMs and that turned out well. 

So, doubling up he channels works well, spending time EQing (quite aggressively) the guitar also worked well (I have a spare channel I may also double this up to get FOH mix and IEM mix separate). 
Weekend off "Covers" next weekend (but working on a new Folk/Fretless project so the mixing trick might be needed!!) and then another tricky/small pub to practice on!   Onwards and upwards!!

Many thanks for all the inputs (😅)!   
        

First update.    Just rewired things so that it's simpler.   Half insert ordinary jack into Insert on 1 channel and feed this into adjacent channel input.   Seems to work just as well and reduces complexity/no of wires.

So now it's Bass - Pedal Board - Amp - DI (preEQ) into mixer Channnel 1 (> FOH), Insert out to Channel 2 for IEM's. So dead simple.  We'll see later!!

Used a passive DI box to take signal from Insert on the mixer bass guitar channel to a free channel so I now have a FOH bass feed and an IEM bass feed

I can now adjust volume and tone for on stage, In Ear and FOH independently🤞

We'll see how it goes at tomorrow's gig!!  Thanks all!

Thanks .   The Fractal is an FX8.    Basically I think the only way to take a feed which captures the pre-amp and effects is to split the FX return.   But I'm just a bass player, so don't understand the essential "Foo" of amping guitars for magicness!!   I quite like the mixer solution though .... is this a better route than just inserting an e.g. BDI21 or equivalent into the feed from the Bass?  Alternatively I guess I could use it as an "Insert"????? 
Sorry if this post just demonstrates my lack of knowledge on all this .... but better to ask and get shot down as it's all part of the learning curve. 🙄

On 04/03/2024 at 19:55, dave_bass5 said:

For Bass in IEM’s ive started to insert a Guitar amp sim (built in to my XR18). It seems to give it a bit more ‘life’ and less DI’ed (which it is). Not a true Bass rig sim, but seems to work better than just EQ.

I spoke too soon!  The Fractal doesn't really do DI out - you can get a feed but it's preEQ/FX etc so sounds pretty naff.  I suspect I could insert a DI box into the FX return lead from the Fractal to the amp and run a DI out from there, but it's probably too difficult to get agreement to do this.   On the bass side of things, is it possible to actually insert something like a BDI21 into the Feed from the DI out from the Bass Amp to the mixer?  Probably over egging this but I just can't get an acceptable sound for IEM's using just the Mixer tone controls. 
Basically I want independent tone/volume control - one for the stage sound and one for the Mixer/IEM feed.  

 

42 minutes ago, ossyrocks said:

 

I do like simple and easy, and these look good. Thank you for your generous offer, but at these prices I might just get one for the gig bag anyway.

 

https://www.showbitz.co.uk/product/orchid-electronics-classic-di-box/

 

 

We use these at our local Music Events organisation - our sound tech swears by them and he gets a great sound.    !! 

My (limited) experience with Sound Engineers is that they "want" a pre EQ DI feed so that what you do by way of changing settings on the amp during the set doesn't affect their settings on the mixer.   So generally they prefer a straight DI from your bass.   This is beneficial in some ways as it leaves you more freedom to adjust your amp to get the stage sound you want should the need arise.  So that's a very simple arrangement and if its a passive DI needs no power supply etc and can be relatively inexpensive (check out Behringer).  The DI box matches the output impedence to that required by the mixer so it's not quite the same as just plugging your bass into the mixer. 
Another option is the Behringer BDI21 which is an pre-amp/DI - one went on here for £20 recently.  Good Luck!!

Wow - great!  The guitarist uses a Fractal board so I guess I can take a feed from that (?)  That would also solve the perpetual Pain In the "proverbial" of him turning his amp up during the set!!  That would be a real "win" (if I'm right!!). 
The Mixer is an analogue 16 channel desk - sits by me, so I'm the roady, the bass player and the "sound guy" .  All monitor/FOH on mixer , FOH done by me touring the audience now and then.   So ..... If I had something like a SansAmp VT/Para driver or similar I could just DI out from there and use the amp for the stage/FOH sound without having to adjust the IEM mix at each gig.   I like it!!

Any other "better" DI out ideas for the Pedal board?  (I would like to use swap basses for some songs so something like the VT Deluxe appeals - but it might be a bit dated these days .... or?)

And it's a relief it's not just me finding the IEM bass a little tricky. 
Many thanks

Had my most successful outing with IEM's on Saturday and am getting a better mix from all the instruments/vocals.   
But a few observations/questions if I may .... 
Observations
    1) The importance of good isolation can't be underestimated.
    2) As I get the hang of mixing the IEM's better it's noticeable that I'm probably using too much volume - need to turn IEM Aux down.
Q's
Bass
How do you get a decent Bass sound? 
On the mixer  have Bass, Semi Parametric Mids, Treble, and HPF, but I just can't seem to craft the sound - twangy top end and a mushy bottom end.  Probably just need practice but any help appreciated.
The IEM bass tone bears little resemblance to the on-stage bass sound.  Any thoughts on Pre vs Post EQ from the DI out of my Ashdown ABM600?  

Guitar(s)
This is a direct DI from the valve amp (some kind of cab sim involved I think).
Seems to accentuate the guitar "dirty" channel which merges with my Bass IEM feed to produce a combined sound that I hate - keep checking to see if something wrong on the amp!!
Worth using a Mic on his cab or is there any other way round this? 

I was getting a bit pessimistic about ever getting this sorted but I'm more optimistic following last weekend's outing!! 

Tried a few "tricks " on a very small stage area on Saturday.   Seemed to help.
Repositioned Drum Monitor as far as possible (slightly behind drummer - he sings at almost 90 degrees to front of stage..)
Removed kick drum from drum monitor and increased it FOH (seemed to provide enough "extra" kick on stage minus the feedback (??)
Put everything into FOH - albeit at low volumes (apart from vocals).
Reduced ALL monitor levels

Turned my bass down!!!! on the basis that if I'm less loud the guitar will sound louder (relatively) on stage therefore reducing the tendency to increase the (guitar) volume.
Used IEM's

Best sound we've ever had out front! (Yep - I get to wander about in the audience to check everything's OK at Sound check and then in the first song in both sets). 

NB  I didn't tell the band I'd done any of this, just nodded when given instructions and carried on regardless - I don't believe they noticed anything except absence of problems and great sound!! 

Need to work on IEM's though .... so  hoping to get a few more tips on a new thread. 

I'd like to explore gating the drum Mic, but he does move around a lot, and whilst the expensive mic'ing options are very attractive the expense seems a limiting factor.  

So, once again, Thanks for the engagement and helpful advice. 

 

This is all good!    Short of buying the drummer a new Mic ('cos he won't!) it's probably worth redoubling the effort put into Mic/Monitor placement and trying to reduce Mic sensitivity.   So all this info is great .... I might "borrow" an SM58 beta to see if I can convince him to invest though .......

Yep - had a look at mic'ing up the drums differently - I guess the Glynn Johns idea is a good compromise between  complexity and sound quality.    However, i have to remember that there are things I can affect and those I can't - e.g. I suggested a "better" mic for the drum vocals - drummer just bought a Chinese clone of a Shure SM58 (maybe?) but it does have an off/on switch! 

I think I can move the  kick drum mic to see if I can reduce the unwanted frequencies and maybe reduce the vocal mic gain, but not much to do in terms of compression as I don't use it on the drums or the drum vocals.  I really should have bought a digital desk as there's so much more frequency control options and the "gate" idea might be something to think about (although the comment about the volume of the drums be trumping any vocal input strikes a chord).  

Anyway a few things to tweak .... everyday's a school day!  

Thanks for all the advice.