Pirellithecat

Looks like I might have to give the ZAR's a try ............. 
My "fix", to get a dedicated Bass EQ into my IEMs, alongside the band mix works. 
I just use Output 4 for the band mix (3x Vocals, 2xGuitar, Ambient Mic and a little Kick and Output 5 for Bass.  Each monitor mix EQ'd separately, then combined using a 2 Jack to single female Jack.  
So now there's an EQ'd FOH Bass "Mix", and a Dedicated IEM Bass Eq'd Mix.  Works on the CQ 4 You app too.... 

i've listen to both via Mains out and they are very different. 
I also use a Pre Amp pedal/DI - a Digbeth, combined with a Behringer BDI21.  
I'll try it out at rehearsal tomorrow night ........... ! 

I know that the Excellent is the Enemy of the Good, but it's interesting checking this stuff out  ..... Next stop ...... see my Audiologist and see about some Custom Fit IEM's.
Thanks Al, Thanks Phil,

Hi, Mixed results with IEM's at the moment ...... 
Can get all the feeds to sound "good" in my ears ....... EXCEPT bass. 
Probably because I care more about how the bass sounds than just being able to hear and blend the rest of the band.  
The issue is a very "clanky" bass tone in the IEMs' but a great tone from the backline bass Rig, and the FOH.   So, without IEMs the bass sounds good on Stage and FOH (as does the band).   But, once the IEMs are in place the bass is completely different ... and not in a good way. 
The IEM's are Shure SE 215's via  Xvive U4 wireless set.  (I will get these (or replacements) custom fitted to my lugholes over the next week or 2). 

Just working up to using my new A&H CQ18T live so wondered whether the following might work well as I now have 8 Monitor Outputs - 

One monitor mix with "the Band, plus Ambient Mic"
Another monitor mix for a specific Bass output. 
Combine the 2 Jack outputs using a lead taking 2 mono Jacks to an XLR connector - then Via XLR onto the Xvive Transmitter?  
I could pan the two channels if I need different balances or just change each channel volume?? 

If this isn't daft ....I'll give it a try over the next few days and report back! 

Thoughts??
Cheers 
Ian

 

22 hours ago, Phil Starr said:

Was this just your in-ears? Are you using ZS10 Pros? I find these do have some pretty striking resonances and unless your in ear fit is near perfect they can sound this way. I've ended up first of all with the tripkle flange ear tips that go deep into my ear canals and ultimately with moulded ear tips and they've improved matters. There is quite a pronounced mid range suckout too, they are far from flat, see below. I'd start by trying to get a great fit but then filtering out the sub 50Hz content and boosting 100-1.5kHz to flatten out the response, or at least being aware of the response when you eq.

 

The other thing is that the audience experience of your bass looks to be pretty good and I find the live sound of my bass compared to my practice sound is really mid dominated and thin and clacky might be a good description. If you've got your bass well forward in your personal mix then you aren't hearing what the audience hear. Even if you aren't using ZS10's the mid suckout isn't rare in headphones I'd still be looking to check for a good fit and looking to boost low mids a little for bass.

 

 

 

Thanks Phil,   THe IEM's are Shure SE215's  -  I'll start a thread .... I think I've found a way to do a specific EQ for the bass plus "The Band" into IEM mix.  But could be completely wrong!!!! 

Chalk and Cheese. 

Aim. 

Reduce stage Volume
Send Bass to PA  at around ?? 50%
Use IEM's (plus "ambient" Mic) 

Result 
Initial resistance from band
Sooo much bass reinforcement in room that it was problematic.  But persisted with band members to stupidly reduce Bass/Mid Lows from Amps etc. 
Phenomenal sound  out front  - several comments from audience
Bass/Kick drum  .... great sound out front
Sound levels on stage better - comment from band that they could ear everything!! 
IEM's ....... borderline disaster. 
Great Gig

 EQ'd aggressively to reduce bass frequencies - well done guitarists  for helping at amp level
and rewarded by many comments at the end - regulars to the venue came up and complemented us on the sound AND the volume! 

IEM's ok apart from the bass, which was very "clanky" and unpleasant........ 

So ..... I'll be along shortly on another thread asing about "How do you EQ IEM's so that the bass doesn't sound sh*t!) 

Same as outdoors .......... of course not!
 

Expect realism to rear its ugly head after next weekend's gig!!!  
I'll let the post know ..... hopefully pics and smugness ....🤞🤞🤞🤞

Absolutely!
I recently rebuilt/modded an old Fender Power Jazz Bass Special,  and it's fantastic......... but really full in the lower bass and harmonics.  
So I turned the bass EQ down a tad ....... not sufficient ....... Checked the spec on the Ashdown ABM 600, and the Bass Control centres at 45 Hz!!!!!   So now it's basically "off"! 
And that's better except when the stage volume gets too loud ..... (107dB!) and then everything goes to mush! Too much bass boom and clangy upper mids .... ! 
Made worse by having to use ear defenders, ...... 
So, time to affect the things I can and not worry about the things I can't .... hence IEMs/Bass through FOH, = reduced volume on stage = hopefully less stage volume = better mix! 
Ever the optimist 🤣

1 minute ago, JPJ said:

Wait until you try two (or more) subs centrally, you’ll be a convert for life 😂

I'd love to try this, but the venues we play have so little space usually there isn't any "centre"! to spare!! 🙄🤣

At the risk of "stuck-record-ness"  The sub makes so much difference to the sound - much greater than upgrading from RCF 710's to 932's!   
A personal hearing "thing" probably, but I find the tops excellent, in comparison to eg Mackie 450's ......... so much clearer ...... BUT, with a very strong female vocalist (and a dreadful sound guy -me).  I find that the RCF upper mid/treble is a tad "shrill" - which is why I upgraded in the first place.   Hopefully I can get this sorted with the CQ18T ........... 

Outdoor Gig Saturday. 
  

My glacially slow progress to find a bass tone that I'm happy with both on stage and front of house continues ......... 
Spent several hours prior to gig playing bass outside via my PA plus Bass rig, just to get the FOH tone sorted.    Took a fair amount of time!!!  And it didn't rain! 
Took the set up to the Gig, and was happy enough.   Quiet on Stage, Loud enough out front, NO boominess (possibly because it was outside??) . 
Had a few sorties into the audience whilst playing and was surprised!!  
The combined Kick Drum /Bass via the PA was really good .... punchy as I've ever heard it.  And the balance was great!  
We'll see how we get on in a indoor venue next weekend!!!  

The other major difference was that the stage volume was much lower ......... so I'm going to persist with gradually reducing on stage-bass levels and putting it via monitors for the members of the  band who notice and would like more bass. 

Next steps are;
1) Custom-fit IEM's
2) Deploy my new Mixer (CQ 18T) live, so that I have a dedicated monitor mix,
3) Buy a Helix/Zoom B6, and if all works well,
4) Downsize my bass cab (to, in all probability, a LfSys Monaco.)
    
And all this will probably change after next weekend's Gig 🙄

PS  I've followed with interest the debate about having 1 or 2 subs, and was in the 1 Sub supporters club.   However,  The tonal balance, with one sub under one PA top, is noticeably different on the sub side of the stage, from the audience point of view.   MUCH "better", fuller/full spectrum/less bright and just "nicer".  (RCF 932's over a single RCF 705 mk II).  Will try Sub centrally when I get the opportunity .... but the 2 sub solution is tempting ........  

Thanks for that

  I was rather worried that with the weight of all the cables something like this might be a little vulnerable to tipping over.  Thought something with 4 legs might be required .......  But if something this simple does the trick ........ 👍

Very dull topic……… just bought a CQ18T.        What do people put these on when mixing from a small stage?  Be great to have a bit more space but with a dozen XLRs connected I need a stable stand for it. 😬

Before condemning IEMs, I must point out that I have on more than one occasion, done exactly the same, ie not unmuting FOH ........ And none of the band noticed.   And that was using wedges!!!  I realised and rectified the issue and the band were none the wiser!   I may have mentioned elsewhere that the band always want more in the monitors, with the resultant feedback issues !!!!!  😭

Thanks.  Been experimenting with that.  Hadn't realised that the Bass knob is centered on 45 Hz so am basically using it now as an HPF filter, and turning bit to minimum.    Getting there ...... I think .

.... Sometimes .........

On 06/04/2025 at 14:18, Dan Dare said:

DBRs are very decent budget PA cabs. No point in selling them and making a sideways move to something like Altos. They're not excessively large/heavy, so you'll save little carrying effort by replacing them with smaller tops. You're on a budget, so you want to get the most bang for your buck. You never get back much selling used PA gear, so stick with what you have and augment it.

 

I'd look at adding a quality sub to your DBRs. With the need to deal with LF removed from them by the sub, you can drive the DBRs harder and they should give a good account of themselves and be quite adequate for the use you describe. In your shoes, I'd get a sub plus an active crossover (unless your mixer or existing speakers already have the facility to do the job).

 

Buy the best sub you can afford. A single quality sub beats a pair of cheapos. The Yamaha DXR PA speakers (the next step up from the DBRs) are very good. The DXS15 sub is around £850 and is well-reviewed.

 

Edited to add. If you are tight on storage space, offload your RCF 715 and stash the sub in its place. A decent sub will make it redundant.

Completely agree.  A single sub makes a huge difference - I added a RCF 705 to my band's set up and was really surprised about the positive effect across the whole sound spectrum.  As it acts as a stand for one of the tops it doesn't add to the stage "footprint".   There's a B Stock RCF 905 for sale  - https://www.simplysoundandlighting.co.uk/products/rcf-sub-905-as-ii-subwoofer-15-1100w-bass-speaker-active-dj-disco-sound-system-b-stock?variant=49594894188864&utm_source=google&utm_medium=organic&utm_campaign=Simply Sound and Lighting Shopify&utm_content=RCF SUB 905-AS II Subwoofer 15" 1100W Bass Speaker Active DJ Disco Sound System *B-Stock&tw_source=google&tw_adid=&tw_campaign=22281502317&gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAjwktO_BhBrEiwAV70jXkjwUKaUvS2OyeGipeIrP6MAbuTof9NCuEAwb-7GmCZywUfCANnqzhoCUvkQAvD_BwE.    And that would give you £300 change from your £1200 budget...........  A single sub is probably all you'll need! 

Great!  That's the answer!  Works.   Having said that I think that the Ashdown preamp rather compliments the Ashdown power amp ...... putting the Digbeth in as a replacement, isn't as pleasant as using it at the front end, even with the Ashdown Pre flat or the EQ turned off.   But many thanks!

Thanks all - sorry about the duplicate posts!!  
I'll go and try the headphone adapter later - I'm optimistic.! 
Just taking a feed to the "Return"  doesn't work  - you can put the Pre in the FX Loop but can't just use the return.   Same for the Line input.  ...... Fingers crossed. 

Probably an obvious answer to this, but I've tried and failed so far!  
I want to try my Laney Digbeth pre-amp pedal direct into the power amp stage of the Ashdown.    So the circuit would go Bass>Digbeth>Ashdown Power Stage.  I can get the Digbeth to work via the Send Return Loop, but this means the bass is plugged into the Ashdown and passes through the Ashdown Pre amp before it arrives at the Digbeth.  
Anyone know how to make this happen? 
Thanks

Probably an obvious answer to this, but I've tried and failed so far!  
I want to try my Laney Digbeth pre-amp pedal direct into the power amp stage of the Ashdown.    So the circuit would go Bass>Digbeth>Ashdown Power Stage.  I can get the Digbeth to work via the Send Return Loop, but this means the bass is plugged into the Ashdown and passes through the Ashdown Pre amp before it arrives at the Digbeth.  
Anyone know how to make this happen? 
Thanks

Thanks for the info -  great stuff!!! 

Any chance of a "long term" update - need a second amp and this looks like it might do the trick!! 🤞 

On 02/12/2024 at 16:02, Duroc17 said:

Noticed a bit of a slight burning smell - this just thing burning off residues from inside or should i worry? Also fan can be noisy at home but obv in band setting no one will hear it...whirrrr

 

Rehearsal tomorrow so will see if i made a mistake with the Fender 210 at 8ohm - drummer whilst not a monster - can get loud, ditto guitarist - but i like a loud lead! was thinking for festivals might just get another same 210 cab then will have a 410 at 4 ohm - and for usual 150-300 venues just the one cab

Be really interested in how the new amp performed live, and how easy it is to get the sounds you desire?  

Hi, 
Been gigging with my Sire V5 24 fretter recently. 
It's definitely  a great gigging machine - the neck and the "geography" of the fretboard (number of frets/accessibility and dimensions) make it really easy to get around effortlessly.
However, the bridge is very "sharp" and it digs into my hand when playing over it - very uncomfortable.  And (could be a "sticky" nut slot) the tuners don't seem to be great at getting quick and precise tuning on the fly.  I'd also prefer a Master Tone and blend arrangement for the tone controls.

So, I'd be very interested in hearing how'if people have modded these basses (or V/P 5's in general), in terms of Bridge Upgrades/Tuner Upgrades/Contols Upgrades.

Of course I could just trade it for a P/V7, but  I'd still have the bridge issue I think ... unless I go for the P8 and financially the upgrades wouldn't be great value for money.   But I'd prefer to "bespoke" a bass like this and keep it for ever (🤣) than getting something else which is "close but no Cigar" !!! 
I guess I could listen to Lobster, but would welcome thought on here!  

On 17/10/2024 at 19:51, Al Krow said:

 

 

Seems that my thinking that these could come in very handy wasn't a bad shout, if you've taken a liking to that feature? Together with the router (and B stock price!) persuaded me to go for the CQ18T rather than its baby brother. It seems solidly built, but whether it's as tank like as the CQ20 only time will tell...

 

So, whens the CQ18-T's first outing?  We expect a "warts an' all" write-up!   Can hardly wait!  

5 hours ago, Al Krow said:

Well...I've managed to source a B stock CQ18T from Andertons for £40 more than the price of a new CQ12T, which has made the decision on which one to get much more straightforward 😊

Should be arriving later this week. 

Hi Al,   I await your assessment with baited breath -  don't hold back!! 

Thanks Phil.  Interesting!  Notwithstanding the difficulties of capturing the sound and playing it back via Headphones, there do seem to be some differences.  The first piece of music was surprisingly "close" between the 745's and the Evox, but the Wishbone Ash piece seemed to more clearly show the differences.  For me the systems using the subs were less coherent and more boomy than the 745's. The EVOX, when the full band/vocals were at full flood, just fell apart in terms of the treble/mid presentation.  For me they produced an unpleasant, congested sound in those sections. Probably my ears and the capture on phone, or expectation bias.   I heard a set of the Evox's at an outdoor gig being played pretty loudly, and, to my ears, they sounded very wearing/unpleasant.  That's a pity because they would be ideal in terms of transport and stage set-up.