neilp

8 hours ago, Count Bassy said:

Surely a lined fretless covers all options. The lines are there if you want them and if you don't want the lines then don't look at them.

-  or is it to do with the kudos of the audience going Wow - he's playing without lines.

 

Who has time for kudos? It's about the fact that I find it easier to make good music and play in tune without trying to use visual clues to get a result that is non-visual. You don't use your ears to help you paint...

Yhe point is he hasn't, and no good string player has, learned where every note on the fingerboard is, he's learned how the shifts work and how the intervals feel in different positions. Its how we should all do it, fretless or not

3 hours ago, project_c said:

I think this statement is a bit of a clichè to be honest. It's a bit like saying 'use your brain' when trying to solve an equation. Great, if your brain already contains the necessary information to solve the problem. Using ears to correct intonation takes years, even decades of focused study. If you have that kind of time available, great. For the rest of us, there's fretlines, so we can get on with the enjoyment of playing a fretless without 35 years of listening to a drone. Just because the lines are there doesn't mean we stare at them all night. They're there to help. We don't stare at fretted basses when we play, but we occasionally check we're in the right place.

If I didn't play jazz, I could probably get by without them no problem, but for soloing up the top end I definitely need those lines.

I think that statement is a nonsense, to be honest. It doesn't take 35 years. The dots are more use than lines anyway. Try it. Give yourself a few months. If you can play in tune with lines, you will be able to play better in tune without them, and you'll find you have more brain available for playing music. Just as for all string players, you should be focussing on the hand that actually makes the sound, and that's not your left. Sheku Kanneh Mason has no lines on his cello, and he's only 20.....

Learn to do it without the training wheels

Final thought. I have 3 fretless basses. The Wal has no lines, the Cort has no lines, and the Squier has lines. I was recording recently with the Squier, because I wanted the woody, hollow Jazz Bass sound. Listening to the tracks back, I realised I was fractionally flat ALL THE TIME. Nobody has complained about my intonation in years, so I was a bit shocked. Ended up playing everything again on the Cort. Came out spot on. The Cort and the Wal are both gigged far more than the Squier. Anyone want a nice VM Jazz with J-Tone active electronics?

No, really? The point is there is no need for lines. Do what violinists do and use your ears. Jaco had lines because he took the frets off a standard Jazz, not because he needed them

There is no such thing as a lined violin, viola, cello or double bass, and there's a reason for that. The lines actually make it more difficult to play in tune... counterintuitive, but its true

To be honest, it doesn't really make much difference. I would go with unlined and trust your ears. It will take you less time to really nail the intonation if you do without the "crutch" of lines, which dont help much anyway. Even unlined basses usually have dots on the side of the board to help you navigate, and I think that's all you need. Have fun!

I will accept that I'm very lucky to be in the orchestra I play in, with a first-rate conductor who spends time on details and insists on standards that most amateur orchestras can't match. It's hard work, granted, but Neilson 5 is perfectly doable too., just find the patterns and work on it. This stuff is important to the work. Put some work in.

You may well be right. I'm on a mission to change that in my little patch of the UK though.

When did I last eat a Wotsit? Long time ago....

I think your real world must be different than mine. What is this "snack" of which you speak?

So many players give up before they've even tried. When I was in Youth Orchestras (NYO even) I thought the last movement of Tchaikovsky 4 was almost unplayable. Now? Simple...

Look at the notes, work out your fingering and practice. Practice at a speed at which you can play it, and keep practicing at that speed. Vary the rhythm - dotted semiquavers, triplets, whatever you want - but keep practicing slowly. The key is not to practice it wrong. You should be playing all the notes. There is a reason the composer put them in.....

Last thought - if your conductor REALLY didn't notice the sketching, you need a new conductor! Ours would notice, AND he'd pull us up on it.

On 05/02/2018 at 15:07, Barking Spiders said:

other bass heavens and hells 

heaven - basslines loaded with 16ths played fingerstyle a la Rocco Prestia

hell - solo bass stuff when whatever's being played might as well have been done on a guitar

16ths are called semiquavers in the real world...

I love the Wal too, but the Aria was my first "proper" instrument, and I think had a major influence on my playing and my sound. It's been with me since 1984, I couldn't imagine not having it...

The Wal doesn't have the emotional attachment, as wonderful as it is...

Interesting Bilbo. If one of them had to go, it would be my Wal Custom fretless. I'd keep the SB1000. I love them both and have no intention of parting with either, but the Aria is burned into my soul....

I own an Aria SB1000 which I bought in 1986. Its a 1979 bat-ear model. The quality of this bass is at least the equal of any bass I've ever played (bear in mind I also own a Wal....) and it will be the last bass I ever part with. It's a wonderful instrument.

I hate to agree with you bassasin, but I think maybe you are talking rubbish lol. Look at the things Ibanez and others were selling bassists in the late 80s, and the colours.....

22 hours ago, Al Krow said:

All basses get moved on in the end.

No. I have four basses and a double bass that are going nowhere

I have a violinist friend who currently plays an unattributed, unlabelled Italian Violin. The wood has been dated by dendrochronologists to 1722. The general belief is it's a Strad, but there's no proof, no provenance. It sounds AMAZING. Big, powerful, bright but smooth. Typical Strad. It's worth about £20k because it has no name and no provenance. No-one hearing it would doubt the quality, but price and value are not always the same thing

5 hours ago, Burns-bass said:

I think there’s a difference between appreciating vintage instruments and fetishising then. 

Take your typical Strad violin, and the original baroque neck will have been replaced on almost all of them, yet they’re still recognised as the pinnacle of the musical instrument world.

 

 

Not just the neck. New bass bar almost certainly, quite possibly half-edged more than once. And the ARE the pinnacle of the musical instrument world

48 minutes ago, Frank Blank said:

This is what I’m after, what are the ‘differences’ of which you speak?

I think maybe there was more craftsmanship applied to the building of Fender basses particularly, so the "subtractive" effects of poor assembly are less, and it's also pretty clear that there was a great deal more high quality timber available even 40 years ago than there is today. There are other factors that may come into play, like finish, wiring etc but those are much smaller, less significant factors. In the end, though, its all highly subjective. If you don't hear the difference, then for you it doesn't exist. In the audiophile world, people pay crazy sums for mains power leads that can not possibly make any difference to sound output, and swear blind, in the face of all the evidence, that they can hear the difference. It's for you to decide. If you want the older instrument, buy it. Don't ever try to tell a violinist that his Strad is past it. Having it makes him a better player, for a whole heap of reasons, not all related to any quantifiable superiority in the instrument. There are far too may factors involved to try to give a definitive answer

With electric, solid bodied instruments, an awful lot depends on the signal processing you apply. If your amp is run with lots of headroom, clean and with the EQ flat, no effects, the yes, you'll hear differences. If you have EQ'd and compressed the signal and applied effects to get "your tone" then of course you won't hear the differences. I have the instruments I have because I love the way they play and sound, and effects are just that, and used very sparingly FOR EFFECT. The difference in sound between a 66 Jazz and even a VM Squier is easily swamped by EQ and effects, but it is there.

I have work commitments on most Saturdays, won't know till nearer the time

For anyone who's in Surrey/Sussex area, I run a bass workshop every month, usually either a Monday or a Friday depending on demand. All ages, all standards very welcome. We try to have fun as well as learning. Message me if you fancy coming along.

I think I'd drive, if at all possible. The thought of my bass in the hold of an aircraft terrifies me....

On 09/12/2017 at 20:40, ambient said:

My bass is a 7 string, which to many people is the work of the devil. I get comments quite regularly on Facebook, and occasionally live from people, generally bass players.

Remember that everything that can be played on a four stringed instrument, can also be played on a five. Though not the other way around without detuning or transposing. I'd quite like to see a four string player play this, without taking it up the octave and totally ruining it in the process.

And if you changed that ridiculous key signature to one sharp, you could play the whole thing as a rising line, which might be even better. After all, could be argued that the first bar-and -a- beat has been taken up an octave, totally ruining it...

No-one seems to have mentioned the "playing". For me that's what it's about. I love playing music in front of people. yes, the process of coming up with original material is very satisfying, but so is the process of rehearsing a chamber music program of music that's been around for hundreds of years. How far does that crescendo go? Should that staccato be off the string or on it? How much slower should that rall get? No-one has ever played that piece EXACTLY like that before, and then you get to show an audience the fruits of your labours. Why is it easier to get paid in a covers band? Because they draw bigger audiences. Simple as that. I don't care, I love playing music.

And FWIW, I think "Don't Stop Believing" is a great song. Of its time, granted. People want to hear it, so I love to play it.