SubsonicSimpleton

If a band member can only make 50% of the gigs...

You can take the cup is half full view, and look on it as a good opportunity to play and network with other musicians.

or you can sack them and take the risk that you either can't replace them, or the new 100% person isn't as enjoyable to gig with.

Upright slap technique isn't particularly complicated, but it is demanding physically in a different way to jazz pizz playing.

There are plenty of good explanations/demonstrations of the basics on youtube, but getting the execution right so you are using your energy with maximum efficiency and keeping relaxed will take a while.

You can slap spiros(Milt Hinton does towards the end of this video)

, but I wouldn't recommend it for learning the technique unless you are a masochist. Be sure and keep your practice sessions real short, as the callouses you need for slapping are in a different place than your pizz ones.

9 minutes ago, Smanth said:

Oooooo … I currently use OFPF at all positions.  With my ukulele bass background (where this is easy) I never considered anything different when I started playing longer scales.

I shall have to investigate, does it basically mean that you only span three frets in any one position and use index finger on the first fret in the position, middle on second and pinkie (with ring finger supporting) on third?

S’manth x

Yep that's it. It requires some rethinking your approach to certain situations, or at least the willingness to try different things and see what works best.

On 08/01/2023 at 23:26, Smanth said:

I'm not as young as ... I used to be  

I find the finger stretching and weight of "normal" basses too "demanding" and so most of the time I find myself grooving on my 5 string fretless ukulele bass (tho it does sound really nice with a thuddy/mwahy texture!) which is relatively light and has a 23 inch scale length.  I also mostly sit, due to a lower back injury I suffered last year.  I'm also in the process of trying to obtain one of the sub short scale five string basses (28.6 inch) to see how I get on with it.

 

I wonder what approaches other players have taken to groove when "the body cannot deliver what the spirit desires"?

 

S'manth x

Are you using Simandl fingering to play nearer the nut, or using one finger per fret?

I would advocate that to reduce stress, wear and tear and likelyhood of injury it is only worth using one finger per fret where you can do so with your fretting hand relaxed, and use Simandl fingering for the rest of the neck. If you use this approach to the instrument, the limiting factor in terms of playing comfort doesn't so much apply to scale length, but more to how far to the left(for a right hander) you need to move your arm to reach the first fret and whether that is cause for discomfort or posture issues that might develope into injuries over the long term.

Inertia is pretty common in my experience - at least you are not putting your precious time/energy to learning new material only to find that time/energy to have been wasted come next rehearsal.

For what it's worth, I think that your method of everyone picking a song can be very productive, but only when everyone involved is suitably motivated.

1 hour ago, spyder said:

After 4 hours playing I'm hurting and still enjoying the challenge.

Double bass is pretty demanding physically, even if you are using correct technique you still need to pace yourself carefully to avoid injury.

Heed this warning - once you have inflamed your tendons through overdoing it, you put yourself in the position where serious injury becomes a very real possibility, and the least serious outcome might be an enforced break from playing for several weeks/months, the most serious consequence being an enforced break forever. The older you are, the longer the recovery time will be, and the easier it is to get injured in the first place.

I still clearly remember the excitement when I first got my hands on a double bass - and the frustration of having to spend weeks only able to practise right hand technique on open strings because I assumed I could just play as long as I wanted without consequence.

Double bass is a wonderful instrument, so congratulations on taking the plunge - I'm sure that both yourself and your band(and other musicians) will be champing at the bit to for you to use your DB on gigs ASAP, but in the short term at least it is probably wiser to introduce it progressively a few songs at a time at a rate where you are not coming away from practice/rehearsal/gig in pain.

If its for free I would take a Fender PB - mainly because it would be the right fit sonically and aesthetically for the things I like.

Nothing wrong with Ibanez, in playability terms their design evolutions over trad Fender/Gibson offerings are great for many people, but the neck profiles on the ones I've played have been too skinny for my taste.

I really like this type of stand - not advocating for this specific offering, but I've bought new stagg(from local music shop) thomann own brand, and picked up another used because they are so useful(they all look like they came off the same production line).

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/314261119785

available from multiple sources - key to their usefulness is the rigidity of the one piece top and the size of the lip coupled with the strength/stability of the base, which means they can happily accomodate heavy books or be tilted backards and used as a stand for tablets/laptops/multitrack recorders/small mixing desks etc.

Main practical drawback is how small they fold down if you want to cart them about, I have seen a couple of versions with quick release clamps for the top, but I think you need to pay for something like this

https://www.thomann.de/gb/km_11940_orchestral_music_stand.htm

if you want reliable operation.

I haven't had any issues with any of my cheap ones so far, but if I needed to subject them to a hard life on the road I would pay more for someting similar from a company like Konig & Meyer rather than replacing them with anonymous chinese manufactured ones if they expire.

I also have a traditional spindly lightweight folding stand, but they are deeply annoying to use, and the only time I have begrudgingly carried one in recent times for my own use is when I was travelling regularly with my double bass on bus/train. I would not spend money on one unless you really must have something that folds up that small.

One of my longest running musical projects got started off the back of replying to an ad on JMB, but also have met a good few muppets.

Pre-internet I don't remember there being no muppets in musician land - internet has just lowered the effort required to mess other people about.

DB strings can be really aggravating - so many choices with very little way to predict accurately what the result will be until you throw down the money and take the plunge.

Just out of interest, how long are you sticking with a particular set of strings before moving on to the next thing?

My experience is that sticking with any change allows me to adapt my approach and get better results even if my initial reaction to the sound/feel is unfavourable - I've read many accounts of people taking new strings off their DBs after a very short trial period, but my personal experience is that it takes a while for the strings/bass to settle and for me to figure out how to get the best out of them.

Back in the day there wasn't anywhere near the string choice we have nowadays....

Give it a go - you don't need to be a virtuoso to have fun or be creative with the instrument.

6 hours ago, Nicko said:

I'm only looking at going from Cubase 7 LE (which was free with the interface and quite restricted functionality) to Cubase Elements which should more than satisfy my needs.  I did consider going down the Reaper route but I know some people really don't get on with it.  Most of the options I'm looking at are win 11, although I've seen a few that aren't and I think the point you make is something I hadn't considered.  I was veering toward this with 32GB and a 2nd drive, but may have to think again.

 

Ultimas 1600

 

 

You would need to get confirmation that this laptop has the doohickey that windows 11 needs to run upfront (it is called a trusted platform module) basically any PC that doesn't have an appropriate TPM 2.0 chip isn't going to run Win11.

7 hours ago, BigRedX said:

 

Logic is free for upgrades within a major version number. So all upgrades to Logic X (10), and we're currently on 10.7.something IIRC, are included in the price. And there have been some pretty significant improvements and additional features added between the first version of Logic X and the current one. When Logic 11 comes out it, if you want to get it, you will have to pay the full price for the new version. However at £199 it is IMO a complete steal. In the early days (I've been a user since V1.x) it cost about £400 just for the MIDI sequencing version. The Audio addition was an extra £300-400 and if you wanted the next paid upgrade (some of the x.5 versions were paid upgrades) that was another £200-300 for each of the MIDI and Audio sections.

Thanks for pitching in and confirming the situation.

Before you commit your cash, consider this;

Useful lifespan of of any hardware is generally going to determined by how long it supports software updates, and there are two important things to remember

- Windows 10 will reach end of life in the near future (official cutoff is oct 2025) this won't stop your system working but 3rd party developers will abandon updates and certification, so if you buy a PC and it doesn't meet Windows 11 compatibility criteria that's the end of the road.

- Apple are already well into the transition from Intel based hardware and have not made concrete commitments on how long they will continue to support older intel based macs. If you go the Mac route, it doesn't make much sense to buy an intel based machine if you anticipate the need to buy/upgrade software.

I run an old PC for audio, and am definately not an Apple fanboy, but if my audio PC died, I would be looking at something like the M1 Mac mini as a replacement as the audio technology market has largely abandoned PCI and PCIe audio cards and the way that Apple implement audio/midi over USB is better than Windows, or the Linux variants I've experimented with. Thunderbolt is essentially PCIe down a cable, and opens more options when the time comes to replace your old audio interface.

I'm a Reaper fanboy, but looking at your situation upgrading Cubase is likely to cost about the same as buying Logic Pro outright (I don't believe that you have to ever pay for upgrades @BigRedXcan probably clarify) - IME migrating from one DAW to another isn't something to be unduly scared of unless the DAW you are using offers something essential to your creative process that just isn't available elsewhere.

Can't believe I'm shilling for apple here, but unless you already own an RME PCI/PCIe solution that needs a new PC to sit in, it doesn't make a lot of sense to stick with windows PC at this point in time for an audio workstation.

There is a veritable cornucopia of amazing double bass exponents out there - is there any style/genre that particularly interests you?

20 hours ago, Beedster said:

Don’t often see Markbass 8x10 on a jazz stage ?

Tons of live vids of The Bad Plus and Medeski, Martin & Wood using 8x10 or two stacked 4x10 cabs with DB at big jazz festivals like Newport and North Sea (although Chris Wood does often double EB and DB).

Not easy to see the sound engineering details on grainy old vids - my guess would be PU into amp and mic to FOH.

What pickup are you using?

Can't imagine the helix having insufficient gain given you can plug (the piezos I've used at any rate) straight into any old instrument amp and get sound out - the DB preamp specific features like phase invert, high pass and notch filtering should be readily available in the helix along with the opportunity to use an impulse response to make the piezo sound more like the acoustic sound and the ability to split the signal to give different EQ profiles for monitors and FOH.

Zoom have nailed the small electret mic capsule tech that is used in the H1,H2n,R8,R16 etc, I've used the H2n long term (100s of hours) and love it - works very well as a self contained set it down and press record solution, and you just connect it to a usb port with a usb lead and copy the files to the computer like you would a usb stick or external HD.

If you don't need recording options beyond XY stereo (this is what I use most of the time on the H2n) then the H1 would probably do the job - the H2n has a red led record/clip indicator at the top of the grill just under the record mode selector that you can see easily from across the room, not sure whether the H1 clip led position is as visible in practice due to the position on the housing. All the zoom devices have tiny lcd screens which are kinda hard to see at any distance as they turn off the backlight after a couple of seconds to save battery power.

If you go for the H1n or H2n, the appropriate accessory pack is definitely worth getting for the case and this thing

https://www.zoom.co.jp/products/product-accessories/ma2-tripod-mic-stand-adapter

which is invaluable (although you could homebrew one yourself) the mounting thread is the same as camera tripods, so it is possible to use things like a gorillapod flexible tripod if a regular mic stand or tripod can't get the recorder out of harms way.

If you are going to want to record direct from mixing console at any point, the 1/8" line in on the H2n isn't really a good solution.

I can't comment on whether the built in mics on the H4/H6 are an upgrade, as I haven't used them.

Hopefully someone like @BigRedX who is a long term Logic user will show up in the thread with some usefull knowledge to drop - in the meantime you can at least still continue to track sessions in Reaper and then fly all the stems into Logic.

Ear training is a long journey, so don't get discouraged.

If you look here

https://www.miles.be/software/

there are several versions of a simple but effective program which is also available in smartphone/tablet app format. I stumbled on this many years ago and used the discontinued functional ear trainer basic (which IIRC is stand alone and doesn't require adobe air)

Some intervals are much harder than others to hear clearly and distinctly, this app plays a cadence to establish a key and then a random note which you have to guess. The nifty thing about it is it allows you to custom select which intervals it tests you on, so you can focus on what you are struggling with - initially you should stick to a fixed key center and a small selection of notes in order to maximise repetition and reinforcement of the learning process - when you are confidently and consistently able to identify the notes, you can then increase the difficulty.

The other thing I would recomend is singing(focus on getting accurate pitch), especially when you are practicing - once you can clearly and accurately sing intervals/arpeggios/scales, they become much easier to recognise.

Does the behaviour remain the same if you use the build of Reaper you were using on the old macbook on the new macbook?

Might help establish where the problem lies, especially if you are using a newer build of MacOS than on your older macbook.

21 hours ago, Dankology said:

I was looking at Mac Minis around £500:

 

https://www.hoxtonmacs.co.uk/products/mac-mini-core-i5-3-0ghz-late-2018

 

Am I in the right ballpark there?

Stretch your budget and buy a new mac mini with Apple silicon - Apple are very disciplined at transitioning to a new type of hardware, intel machines will still work, but software support will drop off a cliff when Apple release the first version of MacOS that only runs on the new processors - past is prologue

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mac_transition_to_Intel_processors

Necks are IMO really important to the overall sound/response of electric guitars/basses - I would get a new/used fretted neck and if you like the sound, get the new neck cosmetically aged to match, or just buy a fretted P-bass for this project.

In my experience, irreversible destructive mods are a gamble that isn't worth taking on an instrument that you really like, or have money that you can't afford to lose tied up in.

Checking my french bows (which are all different lengths) the hair ribbons are 59cm, 58.5cm and 55.5cm - my personal favourite in terms of balance and handling comfort is the shortest of the three(which a 3/4 I believe), but I like the sound of the middle one better.

Bows are a very Goldilocks proposition, what works best for you is going to be determined by your physiology, your ambition and the type of repetoire you favour - to start out, the most important thing is that the bow has good quality hair on it(some budget bows use artifical hair which sucks), and you have fresh rosin(Nymans is my go to).

Normal practice is to start out using the same grip as your teacher - it is possible to change at a later date (two of my local fellow DBers have switched from french to german grip after decades of playing and found that this alleviated age related shoulder pain issues)

Do get a teacher if at all possible - the input on what you are doing right/wrong in the beginning will save you a lot of time in the long run.

If you want to try arco, a violin bow isn't going to cut it - violin resin and the physical properties of a violin bow are scaled to the physics of violin strings which are pretty thin and low mass.

If you compare cello bows with DB bows side by side, the physical differences are still quite pronounced - arco on DB is challenging and rewarding in equal measure, better bring the right tools for the job if you want to give it a proper go and give yourself the chance of getting decent results.

A big mirror is really helpful for feedback on what your bow is doing relative to the strings.