Misdee

4 hours ago, Eldon Tyrell said:

Fully agree. I really hope customers will not let EBMM get away with it, especially as they are charging non US based customers suddenly so much more - Price for a new Stingray Special in Raspberry Burst: $2,399 in the US (Sweetwater) and £2,899 in the UK (Andertons). Well, don't think so 😡

My perspective on this is that EBMM have the perfect right to charge whatever they please for their basses, and the consumer will decide whether or not to pay that price.

What I am wondering is why EBMM have decided that now is the time for such a shift in pricing. Maybe they are in such financial trouble due to to Covid/ lockdown ect that they see no other way to survive. If so ,then they are taking a gamble. They could end up with 100 percent of nothing. Or maybe they feel they have been undervaluing their goods.They may genuinely believe that the buying public has had it too good for too long. It's worth considering that one of the things that contributes to perceived value of luxury goods is the high price tag they demand.It's the retail equivalent of The Emporers New Clothes.

Most likely, though, is that it is a combination of a lot of things, including what I have just speculated on . It would be nice to be able to ask EBMM the question directly. And what will they do if no one buys them ?

I'll still probably end up buying one in the end and be left sucking lemons because of the price. Thing is I could do with two, one for rounds and one for flats. That was my original plan.Now I will have to settle for one if I am lucky and keep changing the strings. As if I didn't have enough to do already.

4 hours ago, drTStingray said:

I think these new colours are great and if it wasn't for the fact I already have Stingray Specials in great colours I would be in the market for one of these, in spite of the current prices. They certainly aren't out of step with other low volume high end stuff (Rick, dare I say, Fender CS) - I think we have to remember the world's changed for the reasons mentioned - anyone tried to buy a bike (pedal type) recently? They can be very hard to come by - same with parts of firms like Ikea's range - you'll find some items are fine others not available. Covid has affected production - allegedly Fender had their best year for sales ever - one wonders if that was caused by people buying stuff that had been parked in retailer's warehouses for ages, unless Covid didn't affect them the same way it has everyone else - there certainly seem to be general supply chain issues and shipping issues for goods across the board. 

Im reminded I paid £375 for my brand new pre EB Stingray in 1980 - it'd be worth £2750+ now!! Used prices tend to reflect how quickly people want to sell. £800 is a daft price for a 1991 Stingray!! 

I also have a Bongo and I'm reminded it's sat in its case - I'd better get it out and put one of the Rays away !!! 

I have been mildly tempted by basses in the EBMM vault - notably the Joe Dart - if EBMM want to issue another Stingray variant in one of these posh colours with a graphite neck I would probably buy one - unless any Members here want to sell me one 😏 Has to be a factory variant though - I know of at least one @hiram.k.hackenbacker 👍😂

Conversely an artist series Tony Levin 5 string (or Pino fretless) if EBMM are planning anything like that!! 

Sorry to say it my friend, but EBMM basses are not "low volume high end". They are mid-market mass-produced instruments. You are kidding yourself if you think they are manufactured to the same standard as a   well designed prestige  luthier- made bass. (However, it must be said, I have much more fun playing a Musicman bass than a great many fancy boutique basses. How good quality does a bass guitar need to be? Anyhow...)I think your Rickenbacker /Fender CS comparisons  are about right,  whilst bearing in mind that most analogies don't bear close examination.

That said, there is no doubt that these new Stingrays are very worthwhile instruments. I am not that keen on most of the colours , but each to their own, there is no right and wrong to it. The real controversy is the grotesque price increase which has accompanied their introduction. The pound has been relatively stable against the dollar. Paint hasn't suddenly rocketed in price. They don't claim to be made any different. The only thing that has changed is the  profit margins that the manufacturer and/ or distributors have decided they need to make. 

I am in the market for a new Stingray Special - I bought one last year but it had holes in it so it had to go back - but I can't see myself being the guy who pays three grand for a Stingray. I might as well abandon all reason and buy a  new German-made "custom shop" Warwick .(Actually , I would probably need to get some kind of a mortgage for that.)

It will be very interesting to see how the market responds to EBMM's new prices. Will this be the guitar equivalent of the European Super League, or will the buying public just shrug their shoulders and accept a new reality where Musicman basses cost that much? And if they manage to get away with it, will other manufacturers follow suit?

1 hour ago, uncle psychosis said:

Musical instruments must be one of the only "technologies" out there that have people genuinely trying to argue that we've got worse at building over the years. 

What logical reason would tell anyone that an instrument made in a factory in the sixties (or even by a "master craftsman") would be any better than any high end modern bass, built with the benefit of an additional 70+ years of understanding? 

Vintage instruments are cool as anything. They have mojo. I get it. Some of them are really very good indeed. But if you don't really care about history, mojo, or collectibility then the price tag is unjustifiable. The value comes from rarity, not from intrinsic quality.  

 

You've hit the nail on the head there.

3 minutes ago, EBS_freak said:

Not without an amp!

Exactly.

I seem to remember that a few years ago PRS were marketing a batch of guitars ( an extremely limited quantity, of course) made from wood from the forest where , according to local legend, Stradivarius harvested the timber for his creations. If that doesn't guarantee you a truly magical instrument I don't know what will.

31 minutes ago, EBS_freak said:

I read that last post with intrigue.

Is an instrument that creates sound by passing a piece of metal through a magnetic field ever going to be technologically advanced?

No, but it's going to be loud.😄

3 minutes ago, NickA said:

On the subject of ancient violins.  ALL those being played have been modified eg with steeper neck angles, bigger bass bars etc to get more power out of them.  An unmodified Stradivarius would be considered unplayable by modern standards.   The only exceptions are a few mint examples in museums that are never played, those are literally priceless, but not exactly "gigged".

On which basis .. if you think your 1955  precision sounds good, just think how much better it would be with modern pickups and an active EQ 🙂

NB: there are only 244 Strad violins known about with maybe another 356 still around but "lost".  pre CBS Fender basses are common as muck by comparison.

Those Strads are overrated, just like classical music in general . Nevermind fancy violins , if Stradivarius had been as clever as folks make out he would have invented an amp. Even cheap modern  violins that they lend to schoolchildren  to try learn on are loud enough nowadays to drive you crazy if you put them in the right hands, which they usually do...

Like some of the other Basschatters of more senior years, I can remember when a lot of what is nowadays vintage gear was new,  and/or  not particularly desirable on the second hand market. So much of what folks are paying for is romantic ideas rather than any tangible advantage vintage basses have over their modern counterparts.  I love old Fender basses as much as anybody, but in terms of sound and playability a decent level recent USA Fender is just as good or better. I have owned several  1970s P Basses- I used them in the 1980s because they were cheap- and none of them were as good as my 2010 American Standard P Bass I bought new. The same with Jazz Basses.

I would rather spend money on a new boutique USA Lakland or Lull  or new Fender CS than a mid to late 70s Fender that I could have picked up for £200 back in the late 1980s. To me basses are tools that I like to work properly. The vast majority of vintage basses are like vintage cars, or great to look at and have a go on but a bit of a pain in the derrière to own and maintain.         As for "hifi" basses such as JD or Wal ect, I cannot think of anything else that could possibly make me feel so old as the idea that such basses are now considered vintage.This was never meant to happen! It's like people talking about vintage space travel.These basses epitomised everything that was modern in an age when modernity was the ideal. If you want such a bass then do the appropriate thing and buy a new one, preferably from the Bass Center at Wapping when it was upstairs, and pay about £700- 800 quid for it. Make sure you are sporting a mullet and a questionable outfit from Top Man  for the authentic experience.

The big problem with slap bass is that people got too good at it. Back in the 70s old school slap ( which was actually new school at the time) sounded great on a lot of records. But as time went on slapping developed to the extent that it lost a lot of its charm . Victor Wooten can slap like a demon, but for my taste at least, his playing lacks the magic  and  distinctive character of Larry Graham or Chuck Rainey  and the best  slap players from that earlier era. 

On 23/03/2021 at 11:02, hiram.k.hackenbacker said:

I have a feeling I might. I also have a nagging feeling that if I wanted to replace it at some point, I would struggle to find one in as such beautiful condition or sounding anywhere near as good. The only reason for the sale is that I’m about to pull the trigger on a custom build and I’ve already reached my self imposed ‘bass limit’.

Look at the price of the forthcoming 2021 Stingray Specials! If they cost three grand  then what would one of these be nowadays? A sobering thought. 

If you can live with 18mm spacing and medium weight , how about a Yamaha BB P35 or a used Bb2025 ? The tone is a great blend of modern punch  and traditional passive grunt.

I've got one of these. It's a terrific bass, but you need to be aware of the chunky neck profile. For some reason, I know not why, Fender decided to give these basses a big "U" -shaped neck. That is not  necessarily a bad thing by any means, but if you are expecting the more typical svelte Jazz Bass  neck dimensions then these basses could be a bit of a shock. I should also point out that the nut is slightly narrower than a typical Jazz Bass, and that seems to offset the chunkyness to some extent.

I love the chunky neck on mine , and I can shred on it as  well as I can on  any of my other basses  (i.e not very well at all 😄) despite it being more of a handful.   Nowadays I've got Thomastik flats on mine and I use it primarily  as my reggae bass. Nails all the classic tones perfectly. The  big neck feels really good for playing those kind of basslines on .

The 74 vintage reissue pickups are superb. They were developed for this bass but Fender subsequently marketed them as a separate item, and they would probably be my first choice if I were looking for a set of raunchy- sounding Jazz Bass pickups.

I've had plenty of high -end Jazz Basses and in comparison I would have to describe the 74 AVRI as being much more Fender - like, i.e flawed but brimming with personality, if that makes sense. The 74 AVRI has got clank and clunk rather than the thump and sizzle you get from a lot of modern- sounding  boutique Jazz Basses. 

The best sounding Stingray ever, in my opinion. A very beautiful bass too. Seems a bit of a bargain at the price. Definitely one for the Stingray connoisseur. GLWTS.I hope you don't regret it.

How about the EBS Billy Sheehan Ultimate Drive? I haven't had a chance to try one myself, but from what I have seen on YT it seems to have been designed to offer enormous control over the final tone.

3 hours ago, Al Krow said:

Agreed, and please add a 5000 and 5000A into that list for us 5 string players (plus a PH 5er whilst they're at it).

I've been really very happy with the quality of my Indonesian made 1025. I get that 50 years ago Japan vs Indonesia would have been a big gulf in terms of economics and local skills. But my sense is that Indonesia is a pretty good location for decent quality bass manufacture these days. I'm guessing a similar debate to a Czech made Spector vs USA made Spector, or MIM vs USA made Fender. With Spector, I think the Czech version is superb and as much as I would love a US NS5, paying literally double is a jump only likely to be matched by a 10% (max?) improvement in parts and quality.

The 5000 was great, but the string spacing was way too tight for most people, unless you can find the super-rare wide spacing version that Yamaha offered very briefly.                                      The Indonesian- made  Yamaha's are absolutely fine in my book, but there is something special about the full-tilt Japanese  version.  I am old enough to remember when they were all made in Japan, as were Ibanez, Aria ect, and folks never realised just how good they really were at the time. It was different times to nowadays where Made in Japan is a mark of quality just as much as Made in Germany or, heaven help us, Made in the UK.Its just a shame that the world economy has changed to the extent that  so many Japanese companies manufacture offshore nowadays, because the Japanese have a formidable track record of craftsmanship equal to anybody, and they love quality products.When it comes to luxury goods, they aspire to the best.

3 hours ago, claustra said:

I have one for sale here :

 

 

That is a very nice bass, no doubt, but I am already well- served for Jazz Basses. I would want these basses to be something a bit different.

On 04/03/2021 at 20:16, Al Krow said:

Hi @PPSteve - agreed the one at Bass Gallery did look like an 1100S

Let me give your post a plug on this thread, too, although tbf BB1200S are a bit like the BB2000, i.e. gold dust and they just don't come up too often! (In fact I don't think anyone on our "wall of shame" on the OP has a BB2000...)

Looking for a Yamaha BB1200S - Bass Guitars - Basschat

"Unfortunately" looking through the BG website there was a stunning blue TRB 5P which completely turned my head, but which I don't need.

...no I really don't need...

..no, no, seriously, I really really don't need... 

😊

The BB2000 is also ripe for a reissue, as is the BB3000, for that matter. Again, they would have to be made in Japan to do justice to the originals. There was a golden age of manufacturing in Japan in the 70s and 80s ( not just in musical instrument  making but across the board) and that was a big part of what made those basses so special.  

On 21/02/2021 at 20:46, AndyTravis said:

I know the BB’s are the thing here. I keep want an SB though too.

Great shape, sort of the midway between the SBV samurai basses and the BB’s...I think chronologically as well as in appearance.

That SB bass with the maple board looks great. Given the trend towards slightly quirky retro designs, I think if Yamaha were to resurrect that style it would be well received, especially if it were equipped with some nice and beefy- sounding pickups. As with all Yamaha basses,  it would have to be Japanese- made to peak my interest, but I  expect it will never happen anyway.😟

On 22/12/2020 at 21:35, funkypenguin said:

If you want to dip into the world of Warwick, I would recommend going for a bass made in Germany in the late 90's or earlier with a wenge neck and preferably with electronics and pickups other than MEC (EMG, Bartolini and Seymour Duncan are the other makes often used). Thats a specific set of criteria I know, but the basses that fit within them are better instruments than a lot of the basses made post 2000, unless you were to go for a top of the line custom shop model. 

The wenge neck is what sets a lot of the great Warwick basses apart, the basses with ovangkol and maple necks don't sound the same to my ears, they miss that lovely Warwick growl. The MEC electronics are the weakest part of Warwick basses across the board, to me their top end is too thin and brittle sounding. My own Warwick has Duncan's (standard) and an East U-Retro preamp (retrofit). The change of preamp transformed the bass, it was literally like night and day compared to the old MEC 2 band unit.

Hope that helps somewhat!

Ben

I  would echo everything Ben has said. 

 In my estimation the wenge neck/ fingerboard  is a big part of what sets Warwick basses apart. They seem to add some natural compression to the sound. 

I can't really comment on the MEC  preamp vs the John  East , but I can tell you that some of  the Mec pickup designs  ie the ones modern-style ones with enclosed pole pieces are  way too microphonic for my taste. 

I don't like the way the Corvette hangs on a strap in terms of balance and where the neck hangs, but you may feel differently. The Thumb is similarly awkward-feeling to me, but some folks don't mind them. Thumb Basses certainly sound good, that's for sure.  Also be aware that a lot of Warwick basses can be pretty weighty. 

I remember when Warwick basses first came to the UK  and how the Bass Centre were instrumental in giving them a high profile in the industry by introducing the pro players in London to their undeniable charms. But as Ben says  the older pre-2000 basses were different . And they were all German-made. Nowadays a new German Custom Shop bass is crazy money. Too much money for what it is.   You can buy a used vintage Warwick for very reasonable money and there is plenty of them out there .

Superb bass player, terrific band, truly great song.  

 Growing up at this time as I did , the late 1970's/early 1980's was an era when music seemed to be more important in peoples lives compared to now, and the Specials epitomise that period to me.

5 hours ago, GreeneKing said:

I'm awaiting some nut slot files and I'll be doing a little bit of fine tuning to my BBPH. It's not unusual for mass produced basses but the nut slots are slightly shallow, particularly on the E and A strings. I need much more pressure to fret the first fret than I should. Just a wee bit of filing and I'll take it VERY slowly.

I said in my initial review that the fret ends weren't sharp and they aren't as in cut your fingers sharp but they do feel rough edged to the extent that I notice when playing. So I'll do that at the same time. I've already got a file for this.

I've been playing my BBPH exclusively since I bought it and a couple of days back I picked up my modified 2008 MIM Jazz. I love this bass which, after owning well over 100 basses is why I have it. I used it with the same amp settings and it sounded lacklustre and lo-fi. That's with identical strings. The notes seems damped, quickly fading. I then went back to the BBPH and hi-fi and sustain was restored. I did a double check, it was in passive with the tone rolled half off. Such is the nature of the BBPH.

Peter

 

For some reason-I know not why- the Japanese Yamaha workshop cut the nut slots on the shallow side ie the relief at the nut is higher than a lot of other basses. I have seen it on so many basses from them that I think they do it on purpose. The funny thing is that the basses seem to play well, regardless. A Fender with those nut slot heights would feel very stiff by comparison. 

12 minutes ago, marleaux62 said:

I had exactly the same problem I had a 58 P bass but the 44mm nut was just that bit to wide for me.

 

Yes, a B-Neck  1 5/8 inch is the most I can handle in terms of width on a four string  bass. 

Yes, the NE2 is a wonderful instrument, a truly high-end bass. I would put it up against any other prestige bass you could care to mention, both in terms of sound and construction. I love the modern-but-gutsy sound of the NE2 ,  but I've got a BB2025 because I prefer passive basses and it's fairly light for a five.

I must really like Yamaha basses, because I normally won't entertain anything less than 19mm spacing  on a five string  bass . 18mm is O.K, and overall I find the BB bridge/nut spacing more comfortable and playable than something like a Stingray 5 string. At least the strings don't keep slipping off the edge of the fingerboard. 

17 hours ago, Cuzzie said:

The neck is pretty flat in it’s radius so despite having a wide nut it may well be very playable for you.

I agree it’s a top notch bass, prolly the best Yammy make

I had a G&L with a similarly wide nut width and I just  couldn't warm to it, despite t having an otherwise very comfortable neck profile.  Same with  early 60's P Basses. I'd love to try an Attitude, though. I might be converted!

13 hours ago, Al Krow said:

@Misdee I had the opportunity to A/B the Yamaha Billy Sheehan Attitude with a BBNE2 at the Yammy store in London back in 2018 (please see my post March 8th 2018, P13 of this thread) and wrote up a short review of each, in case of interest to you.

Just had a read, very interesting. I have  had countless similar disappointments when it comes to trying acclaimed basses and being underwhelmed.

I too am unlikely to be playing the bass through two amps.  At the moment I am only playing at home , mainly through headphones. The best I could manage is to play it through two pairs of headphones, but I've only got one pair of ears. Maybe I could email Billy and ask him what I should do. 😄