Misdee

The late great John Wetton:  

Jon Shuker's work has always been superb in my experience. A very decent man to do business with, too.

I'm not being negative  about these basses, though. I hope Dr T enjoys his lovely new basses. I am going to buy one, too!

On 02/09/2018 at 12:48, drTStingray said:

Extraordinary to see such negative vibes, and I'd wager none of you have seen one of these in the flesh let alone played one. Go and try one before you comment. 

I have one (more details to follow tomorrow) - the revoiced preamp does sound very musical even on full mid boost.

The weight loss is very noticeable - I have a light Stingray and Sabre and this is noticeably lighter than them. The output is huge. The changed body and neck contours feel really good. Oh and flawlessly constructed and the roasted maple is the slickest neck I've ever played. What's not to like (other than the price - but this is easily as good if not better than say a Fender CS) 

Regarding string to string volume - this bass is very balanced - The pre amp is revoiced - I don't think people will have an issue with that even if the EQ settings are abused. And the slap tone remains wonderful - clever eh? 

Just to correct some errors in Misdee's post - there was an issue with quality control from CLF who made the pre EB basses initially, which affected amongst other things necks on pre EB basses - indeed rigorous quality control was instituted as dealers rejected the instruments and eventually this created a relationship breakdown because CLF were either unwilling or not capable of producing a product which would meet MMs requirements (this was the 70s!!!) - it's all readily available in print - the issues included inoperable truss rods, dead spots (at the very top end of the neck), rattling truss rods and worse. Those in circulation didn't have those issues. 

I'm sorry to say, my friend, but  it is you who are inaccurate here. " Dead spots" refers to noticeably quieter and weaker notes caused by the resonant frequency of the neck. This has nothing to do with the truss rod issues you refer to, and is the reason why the Stingray has a 3+1 tuning arrangement.Furthermore, the anecdote you relate about the necks on the pre-EB basses is slightly confused and misleading. According to legend, the issues with the truss-rods was deliberate negligence as the reaction to an ongoing dispute, but was in the late 70's, well into the relationship between CLF and MM. Production of the Stingray was subsequently taken over by Grover Jackson, but plenty of Stingrays made by CLF were sold to the public.

I suppose it's not EBMM's fault that the pound has crashed against the dollar since 2016, hence the high price for these basses.

Regarding dead spots and weak G strings, I've got a hunch that these basses may well suffer from them less than previous Stingrays. The new design pickups and preamp are substantially derived from the Bongo, which definitely doesn't suffer from either of those problems.

Dead spots were a problem from the outset with the Stingray design.The reason Leo Fender designed the 3+1 headstock arrangement was to counteract a very pronounced dead spot at the 5th fret on the E string of his early prototypes. Maybe EBMM have found a way to banish the problem (or at least temper it)  by means of brute force with the new 18V preamp and neodymium pickup.

I've tried Warwick Black Label strings on a Fender Jazz and they were noticeably less bright than most other steel strings, and fairly low tension. I tried the Yellow Label strings on a fretless and they were pretty unremarkable but cheap.

I've got a fairly high-end bass in my very modest collection that is absolutely perfect in every respect that I have just never taken to from day one. The bass is a USA-made Lakland Joe Osborn/ 44-60 with ChiSonic pickups. This bass, which I custom ordered from Lakland.  sounds great, plays great, looks beautiful etc. but I just have never particularly enjoyed it. I've not tried to sell it yet because, on paper at least it is so perfect, but I've had it long enough to know that I will never play it much. So, yes I can relate to your dilemma and being ambivalent about selling a perfectly good bass that you are lukewarm about.  

These basses, contrary to my initial misgivings, sound very good indeed and the light weight and new contours promise a much more ergonomic Stingray. However, I don't like black hardware on a traditional 4 string Stingray. I'm not keen on ebony fingerboards either. Or sparkle finishes.And the white ones are the wrong shade of white to go with the roasted maple.

 The overall reaction to how these basses look has been very positive, but i am struggling to find one I could live with, to be honest. I don't like the bridge, either. No Stingray really looks right without the big old-style mute bridge.

I will still probably buy one, anyway. And then not be happy with it.

The cheapest UK price for these strings is currently £31.80 per set delivered. Save yourself more than a tenner a set and buy mine! Brand new factory - sealed  packs.

21 hours ago, Chris2112 said:

 

Anthony's earlier records were mostly done with the 'career girl' jazz bass. Someone on Talkbass has a really interesting project on the go to build a replica of that. 

That said, the Contrabass has evolved, as the years went on, into something of a super Precision bass. I've always viewed it in that way. I'm not sure which version of the Contrabass was the first to do away with the bridge pickup but once it was gone, it was never coming back. Anthony considers each new Contrabass very carefully, each model being an evolution of the last and a step closer to his ideal. His most famous Contrabass was known as, IIRC #10 or #11. I'm leaning more towards #10. It's appeared already here, with a flamed redwood top. He appeared on loads of records and video recordings with that bass and yet, like the rest of his basses, he sold it on when he received the next model. 

Over the years, he has stripped back what he wanted towards his ideal. Active electronics, gone. Bridge pickup, gone. Double cut, gone. He still gets a lot of 'cut' from it by switching to a pick on the fly. Notice that he often plucks all over the body to adjust his tone and then moved to a pick when he really needs that extra presence.

AJ started using his Jazz Bass in the mid- to- late 70s. Before that he used a Precision. His work with the O'Jays, for example, is a P Bass.

14 hours ago, dyerseve said:

Not sure why you have chosen to list those cities. There are plenty of places they could move to in the US where it would be many times cheaper than NYC. It's an enormous country with 52 states and hundreds of cities!

It's all irrelevant though really as they are successful as they are and seem to have no wish to move off to make their basses any more affordable 

I only mean to make the point that NYC is not uniquely expensive.

Yes, Fodera could build their basses elsewhere, but the profile of the  company and their stellar roster of famous endorsees rely on their being in NYC. So, if they had been based in Iowa to begin with, they would not be the Fodera we now know. And if they were to now relocate I doubt they would lower their prices. Why should they? All it would mean is a bigger profit margin, but would it be worth the inconvenience and loss of prestige? Almost certainly not.

Foderas are expensive, but if you want that level of quality it's good to know that someone has the expertise to provide it.

As a rule, I am not really into exotic wood basses but that is an absolutely stunning instrument. Might be the nicest Fodera I have ever seen.

1 hour ago, dyerseve said:

Sorry to contradict but read the post earlier where Fodera themselves have stated that they could reduce the price tag by 50% if they were made elsewhere in the US.

Without wishing to cause offence, I am dubious that this is what Fodera actually said. And even if they said it, it isn't necessarily true. Elsewhere in the USA? Brooklyn real estate prices are lower than San Francisco, for example. Boston and San Jose are not far behind.

Just to muddy the waters further, AJ is on record as saying that his signature Fodera is essentially a big Fender Precision Bass. the instrument he made his name with in the mid-70s.

Fodera basses are not really my cup of tea, but there is no question that they are worth the money they cost. The fact that they are manufactured in NYC may contribute to a small extent to their price tag, but it is not realistic to suppose that they would be half the price , or even anything remotely like that if they were made anywhere else in the USA. The reason they are expensive is because of the amount of skilled man-hours it takes to make these basses.

For me, the big question is whether Yamaha is going to revive Ampeg as a prestige brand manufactured primarily in the USA.I certainly hope so. 

 I bought an Ampeg SCR preamp a while back and, contrary to the marketing hype, it was an extremely disappointing product, as far as I was concerned. I'm sure that Yamaha will improve the standard of Ampeg gear, I just hope they make quality their priority rather than affordability. I don't want cheap gear with an Ampeg logo on it, I want proper Ampeg even if it costs a lot of money.

I've played both of these basses and I don't think you can say that one could replace the other. Sadowsky basses have a distinct tone, largely due to the preamp. Sei basses, particularly the more modern style exotic wood Jazz basses have a modern hifi tone with less of the classic Fender  sound in it. Sei basses are superbly built, but the attraction of Sadowsky basses is not just owing to the quality of their construction. It is the overall appeal of their design and the profile the company enjoys.That is why the bass world is full of companies that make basses that they and their customers tell themselves will substitute for a Sadowsky. 

I don't want to hijack this thread, but are the Stingray Classic necks on the chunky side? I've never got to play one of these basses,  but I really want a Stingray and I much prefer  the old-style 2 band EQ and vintage styling. I'd always presumed that the Classic necks would be fairly slim, like the old Stingrays. Any info gratefully received.

I am not an expert on copyright by any means, but  surely this  "Wrongo" is on very shaky ground?

 Anyhow, I am genuinely mystified why so many people think the Bongo is ugly or ungainly in some way.  I think it is a beautiful design. It looks better in the flesh than in pics or photos.

 I agree totally with Dr. T.that the recipient of this bass should try to get his hands on a real Bongo. If you want a high - tech, hifi modern bass with a powerful sound and a distinct personality of its own then you can't do better.

Two brand new 5 String sets of Dunlop Marcus Miller Signature Super Bright Stainless Steel Strings  45/65/85/105/125.  Factory-sealed  in the original packaging. £21.50 per set including UK postage, or both sets for £42 delivered. 

These are really excellent strings but I am using nickel  exclusively nowadays.

I'm not an expert on this subject by any means(!), but I would be amazed if a chip on a black finish like that couldn't be masked to some extent without going to the lengths of a  total refinish. A skilled repairer would probably be able to do something to make it far less noticeable.

I  would think that the chaps at The Gallery might well be able to sort out a little chip in the finish like that. Even if it can't be made perfect, I'm sure it could be improved a great deal.

Regarding why Wunjo  haven't re-finished  the knock before selling the bass, it could be for a number of reasons. Some people wouldn't be particularly bothered by superficial cosmetic damage if the bass is suitably reduced in price. Also, the shop could be accused of trying to mask the damage if they did not openly draw customers attention to it. Much better for the shop to leave the bass as it is and let people decide if they want to buy it and then do something about the damage themselves.

Came across this band by accident on YT recently. Have to be honest with you, I find it a bit mystifying why young people would want to ape the sound of Led Zeppelin's first album fifty years after the event. This band is the musical equivalent of those historical re- enactors who play at being in the olden days.It would be easy to be scathing of these kids, but I'm sure their hearts are in the right place. Personally, I blame the parents. 

As with most nostalgia, this music is hankering after a golden age that in reality wasn't that golden. The great irony is that these youngsters are looking backwards at a time when "progressive" music was all about looking forwards, being experimental and original and creating new forms.

I would have to make the distinction between Yamaha BBs and a Fender -style PJ. The Yamahas, particularly the bolt-on ones, may at face value share certain construction characteristics with a Fender, but in practice it is a very, very different animal.

A Fender - style PJ has its own idiosyncrasies and shortcomings, but can still be very enjoyable and useful.  How even do you need the output of the pups to be? I've got a USA Lakland 44-64 with a jazz neck and Lakland PJ pickups and it is a snarling beast of a bass. I cannot think of many musical situations where it wouldn't do an admirable job. A simple but very versatile and practical instrument.

I've got a few PJ basses, and have owned a fair number over the years. They have their pluses and minuses, but in my opinion the pluses outweigh the minuses!

The biggest issue with this configuration, particularly on a conventional Fender -  style bass, is the inherent seeming difference in volume between P and J pickups. There are various reasons for this discrepancy, and some pickup sets address this problem more effectively than others. There is also an issue with phase cancellation when both pickups are on together. These are part of the characteristics of a PJ, and not necessarily a bad thing, but it is definitely a thing. A notable exception to the rule would be my Yamaha BB PJs. I've no idea how,  but these basses suffer none of these problems associated with more traditional PJs.

For me, adding a J pickup makes a traditional P much more versatile and articulate. It just makes it a much more useful bass, and I have never noticed any significant detriment to the sound of the P pickup.

I forgot to say in my earlier post that Bean9seventy, I really like your bass playing in the  YT videos.

 And like a lot of other folks, I'm enjoying the music posted on this thread. It really was a golden era for this style of music. It seem like in the age of computers some of the soul has been lost.

Unfortunately, my memories of nightclubs and discos during this time was that they always ended with a big fight at the end of the night. Worse still, where I grew up we didn't even have a late night kebab shop until the mid-1980's.