Chienmortbb

I have taken inspiration from the 1 X 12 Cab Build Diary and as I am building my own amp, I thought other may like to watch the process and also read, and see, the reason I behind the choices I make.

My wife is very ill at the moment so progress in the build will be slow but hopefully the choices and explanations will be interesting. I am also looking for feedback so feel free to wade in.

At the end I will produce a precis of the thread so that no one has to wade through they whole thing. My next/first real post will be the specification.

[quote name='Phil Starr' timestamp='1414447874' post='2589471']
Fane describe the 10-300 as having a 'smooth' response and it is flatter than many 10's, most have a fairly prominent peak in the 1-4kHz range which gives the speakers colouration which sounds quite nice with bass, or maybe that peak is so ubiquitous we have just come to expect it.

My confession is that I'm going out with the SM212's which are fairly flat but my graphic looks like the frequency response you get from a cheap Eminence stuffed into a too small a cab. The 10-300's just didn't sound very interesting with bass. Nothing wrong but they just lacked character.
[/quote]My amp build will have both vaswitchable mid and full PEQ that way I can dial in old school but go flat if I want. It is harder to EQ out old school from a poor* speaker/cab combination than to dial it in from a relatively flat speaker system.

Re the Fane 10-300, I think you are telling me they are great for PA then. If you do not go for ultimate extension, they give a tiny cabinet even with a tweeter.

Phil, I have only modelled the 10-300s so you are one up on me. Although with the frequency plot on the data sheet I am surprised they sound flat at the top end.

Regarding the new 10-125 I agree it models like a dog and looking at the TS you can see why.

[quote name='Phil Starr' timestamp='1414136681' post='2586188'] Oh if you want something that does go lower than the Celestions then the Beyma SM110's look promising at a similar price. Be prepared to wait for delivery though [url="http://www.bluearan.com/index.php?id=BMASM110N&browsemode=category"]http://www.bluearan....semode=category[/url] There's a thread on here from someone (fleabag) who tried these speakers and had a positive result [url="http://basschat.co.uk/topic/235679-can-i-improve-my-cab-at-all/page__hl__beyma%20sm110__st__30"]http://basschat.co.u...20sm110__st__30[/url] [/quote]I was really excited when I first looked at the SM110. I have just done a quick winisd plot of the SM110. It has a great frequency response in a 40L box but xmax is exceeded in the at very low power (approx 75 watts) . This means that it is 3-6dB down at 70Hz. I will recheck later but at the moment the Fane 10-300 looks. a better bet

Many of the modles on the market such as Anaview, ICEpower and Pascal are more than up to bass but are expensive, even as OEM, so to make a cheap loud amps from those is difficult. To go really loud you need a really good power supply and that is usually big. You also need a bigger heatsink as a 500 W amp at 80% efficiency still creates 100+ watts of heat if driven at full power. To make your own including a power supply is difficult as a good switch mode power supply SMPS is much more difficult than making a Class D amp. If you use a tradition transformer power supply you will same some weight compared to a traditional Class A/B amp but not a massive amount.

To design a class D amp with switching power supply is a massive task and requires totally different skills/thought process from traditional amps. If Hartke are doing their own, I admire them, but I would not be the early adopter.

True. I was trauned in Military Elevtronics and vibration testing was a big part of the QC regime.

So tne three things against plate anps, heat, vibration and pneumatic integrity of the caninet makee wary of powered bass cabs.

If you do go witn a plate amp I suggest an ICE power one as they really are road tested.

Every bass and every cab and every amp is 5h1t. Otherwise there would be no Basschat

Hypex are very good but very expensive. The miniDSP plate amps at [url="http://www.minidsp.com/products/plate-amplifiers"]http://www.minidsp.com/products/plate-amplifiers [/url]
are worth a look and are good value for the ICEpower modules versions. I still question whether a plate amp is a good idea in a bass oriented cab though.

My worry is that Powered PA cabs rarely go very low (forget the sales specs, there will be little below 100Hz) so the main problem is heat. Putting an amp in a bass cab is like running it permanently on a vibration test.

[quote name='wateroftyne' timestamp='1413812037' post='2582163']


And you are to be applauded. I like stuff to look pretty - it's in my nature.

It also shows that the builder takes pride in it, too.
[/quote]i quite agrre but beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Some of thise TKS cabs look great, while the slant fronted ones look like my old Dansette record player. One piece of retro I don't want to see again. However if they sound better than anything else I would buy them. Of course other eyes and ears are available.

My beef with some of the posts is that they are either subjective or totally off topic with respect to the original post, The main gist of the OP was:

"I have a Barefaced Super 12T . It's a great sounding cab , But I can't stand the handles this is the 3rd time I've picked the cab up by the top handle and it has swung back and bashed me in the shines. I really don't think it needs those wheels"

Almost alI the posts berating Barfaced have nothing to do with the palcement, or intended use of the top handle.
I have seen posts of poor build quality but have only heard of one [b][i]failed[/i][/b] handle. As the handle was the starting point of the thread then that is on topic. Most of the other comments are not.

Poor build quality would result in multiple failures but the handle failure is the first I have heard. I think many people confuse build quality with cosmetic appearance. Had any of the Barefaced cabinets had the problems of the same magnitude as the Ampeg PF500 amp (now on at least revision 7) , I could understand it but they don't. I do not like the look of the Ampeg Valve heads. i my opinion they are cosmetically very poor ( maybe they are just retro) gives no indication of the build quality or reliability.

This has been a real bandwagon jumping session and the trouble is that different people are jumping on different wagons. What has the sound of the cabinet (a sound that many people like) or the look of the cabinet got to do with the placement (and misuse of) of one of the handles?

Maybe if we all shut up Alex migh come on and chip in but to be honest, if I were him I would keep contact on a one to one basis with customers.

I think this thread was started by one of Alex Claber's aliases. They say there is no such thing as bad publicity and when you think how much Aquilar, TKS et al pay for their ads maybe that is right.

It is a free country, If you want a Barefaced buy it, if not, don't.

I would buy a Barefaced if I had the money. Flat is good as sound shaping, voicing, equalisation, or whatever the current name for it is, should be done in the preamp not the cabinet.

As for the Handles, it is a compliment to Barefaced that the only criticism is the placement of the handle. Maybe Barefaced can put a User Manual saying:

WARNING The Top Handle is intended to be used to assist wheeling the cabinet, not for lifting. Barefaced take no responsibility for injury caused buy misuse of the cabinet.

Of course now someone will say "It is my Cabinet , I will do what I want with it"

[quote name='molan' timestamp='1412633128' post='2570712'] Slightly updated to weather the inevitable storm. . . [/quote]Surely TKS are introducing product now in the UK but are established in Sweden. We did not witness TKS's growing pains whilst we damn near saw the Placenta with Barefaced.

Can anyone explain the difference between fuzz, overdrive, drive and distortion?

[quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1411646797' post='2561485']
Or, if your skills aren't up to it, you could build a Greenboy Fearful cab, [url="http://greenboy.us/"]http://greenboy.us/[/url] . I believe there is a UK supplier who will provide everything pre-cut and you just have to assemble.

There has been a thread on here about it in the last 6 months.


A thread about it from Talkbass:

[url="http://www.talkbass.com/threads/ok-dumb-questions-fearful-fearless-builders-ordering-composite.920886/"]http://www.talkbass....mposite.920886/[/url]
[/quote]They don't supply flat pack anymore.

If you add a new handle, make sure it is the same size as the original one. It can really screw up your sound if you mix sizes!

I mentioned Walter Harley's article on Bass Signals. It can be found here

http://cafewalter.com/2000/04/20/the-nature-of-electric-bass-signals/

[quote name='stevie' timestamp='1412240912' post='2566993']


What exactly was being measured here? Was the loudspeaker eq'd to be flat to 30Hz?
[/quote] I think it is straight from the bass. There may be a buffer just to make sure the pups ate mot loaded by the spectrum analyser.

The point is that most of the imgirmstion is contained in the harmonics and the brain is very good at filling in the gaps.

Really? Yellow Speakers?

Is there a point to this thread.

OK the Superfly spec is officially 2 x 250W into 8 ohms. However the chips used in the Superfly are actually not good for 250W. They are bridged TDA 8927s and thet are good for about 180 watts each into 8 ohms.

Ironically they don't give much more than 110W into 4 ohms so best keep the cabs to 8 ohms. I will look at the rest of the circuit later to see where you might get some gain back.

Phil, Do not beat yourself up. It was important that the three of you disagreed about some things as it makes sure that each idea or theory is fully tested. There was no right or wrong so be proud of the end result. One of the reasons I stopped designing my own cab was that is was clear that in this case a small committee would get to a better answer than I could alone.

TKS is right. I first came across this from Walter Harley (www.cafewalter.com). He did a spectral analysis of bass signals and came to the same conclusion as TKS. The fundamental is important but the harmonics give us more info.

I would also say that your observations just prove to me that a good HPF in front of the power amp is worth its weight in gold.

There was s thread on TB I think for a mod to get a bit more gain from the preamp on the Superfly. I will look for it and get back to you.

OK I have found it but there is no circuit diagram/schematic. http://vissinger.org/pages/SuperFlyMods.html

I will do some more checking,back soon!

I don't know the Mag 200 but my old Mag 300 combo had a speaker output for an extension cabinet. The main point is that if a Solid State combo has that extension output the it will probably only output 1/2 power with the internal speaker. To get the extra power you will need an extra cabinet. To put it another way, with the internal speaker you will get only 100 watts, you need another speaker to get the full output power from the amp.

Magnets do not move whether they are ceramic or conventional ferrite materials.The coil is the moving part.
Neos do allow the designer more scope with both the shape and size of the magnet but two magnets of equal length and with the same magnetic properties will give the same sound with the same coil, cone, surround, spider, basket when mounted in the same cabinet.

So I am still safe in Darzet then !