geoham

I wonder if I've ever been in a band with a unique name.
 

I was in an originals band in the early 2000s - Underwood. We was named after Underwood Lane in Paisley, where one of the band members lived. We reconvened to start recording again during Covid and discovered that there's a Crimean band of the same name. Our stuff gets bundled together on streaming services, which is a bit annoying. There's now a local covers band calling themselves Underwood Lane too... must be something inspiring about that street!

A quite funny example - I was in a covers band called Loose Cannon. I'm sure there's plenty of bands with that name. We received an angry Facebook message from an American guy complaining we played too loud in the garage next to his elderly mother... aggressively suggested we keep in down or find somewhere else to practice.

I think when it comes to it, that if none of the bands have any kind of trademarks, aren't especially well known and don't cross paths, then there's nothing to stop you both working with the same name.

I recently fitted a Hipshot bass extender to my old Mexican made Jazz Bass. While it was a straight swap mechanically, the appearance was too different - chrome vs nickel, different post shape, different ferrules. I bought three Hipshot tuners to replace the remaining Fender tuners and I am happy now. About £75 to fix a cosmetic annoyance... but I had to!

I'm thinking about fitting one to my self-built P Bass, which has nickel Schaller MB tuners. Could anyone who has done similar let me know how the appearance of the Schaller tuners compares to the Hipshot please? I'll be using a BT1 for this.

Thanks,

George

Bought drop-d tuner from Andy. Prompt, friendly responses always, and shipped the item quickly, despite the Christmas holidays. It arrived well packed and in good condition.

I wish I'd have known about this, would have been a short stroll after work.

A 16 year playing this? Very well done indeed. I remember being the same age, and my bass teacher at school was always giving me jazz pieces to learn. I think it took me about 6 months to get 'Blues by Five' up to scratch for an exam - never mind playing a set of Jaco stuff to the public!

I went to a production of Tommy at the Conservatoire years ago and it was really well done. I should probably keep an eye on what else they're putting on, try to support you musicians a bit.

George

I was, and to an extent am in a situation like this.

Mate of mine - I've been in two bands with him before - he asks if I want to join his new project. I can't commit to it, so decline. He asks me to fill in at a rehearsal, so they can at least practice the material with a bassist until they get someone.

I went along and had a decent night at the rehearsal room. I get the impression from the rest of the guys that they'd been led to believe I was genuinely interested..they'd love to have me in the band etc. I suspect my friend thought I'd be swayed after playing with them

They did eventually get someone, who about a year down the line is quitting and I'm being approached to 'fill in' at rehearsals and a few gigs. I wouldn't mind if that was actually the case - but I just know efforts to find a permanent player would cease if I was there.
 

I do take it as a great compliment to my playing, but I'm happy in my current band and don't have time for two.

If you are in the market for a new band, you can definitely treat this as an informal audition. Otherwise, if it's a hobbyist level band, you want to help a friend, it could be fun evening. You may also see it as a opportunity for some dep gigs, or at least to build your reputation. Otherwise - I'd question what's in it for you?

This had totally bypassed me until today… stuck a few quid in the pot. Hopefully will get to the target soon.

On 01/11/2024 at 08:59, Kev said:

Why hide?

On 01/11/2024 at 09:02, TimR said:

In case it grows legs usually.

Exactly this!

Place it somewhere similar to where punters ears are likely to be, but out of sight of punters.

39 minutes ago, TimR said:

OK. I've missed something. 

 

Is the drummer using a floor monitor? Everyone else in ears. 

 

Where is the feedback from? 

 

Is it the mains because you're having to boost the vocals over the drummer?

 

If so, turn the drummers floor monitor down. If he can't hear it then he'll have to tailor his drum volume to balance that. I suspect this is a mini version of volume wars. Drums loud, turn up monitor, drums play louder, turn up mains to cope. Etc etc.

 

Turn down his floor monitor. 

Only our guitarist has a floor monitor, everyone is one IEMs.

Feedback is coming from the lead vocalist’s mic, which is due to it being too close to the FOH speakers when we play in small venues.
 

Overall mix of the band is dominated by drums. Increasing the volume of the guitar, bass and keys to match the drums means the vocals can’t keep up without feedback.

10 minutes ago, Dad3353 said:

 

Quite, so the ideal monitor would be a pair, at 45° each side of the lead singer's feet. One would do, but best off-centre, at 45° (better for hearing it, too...). Make sure that the singer doesn't 'lean into' the monitor, ever, too. 

Cheers.

Thankfully the singer uses in ears, so no concerns.

20 hours ago, Dad3353 said:

Can you try a Beta 58A instead, for the vocals..? It's a supercardio, so will reject more from off-centre. A definite improvement on the trusty SM58, and a tried and tested staple in FOH voice mic'ing. Just a thought. 

Worth a go, we’ll see what we can beg, borrow or steal before spending cash!

13 hours ago, hubrad said:

Without reading all 5 pages of this (on break at a dance gig), has anyone mentioned a more powerful pa, ie one with more headroom? 

Back in the 80s we struggled with 100 or 200W pa heads, no headroom therefore feedback 

The PA is plenty powerful. 2 x 2000w Crown amps for the tops. (One would do, but means we always have a spare)

Couple of active subs (aux fed).

But to the point about more headroom, the amps level is generally down fairly low - venue dependant. Perhaps there’s something in putting that up and setting the mixer levels a bit lower.

1 hour ago, Boodang said:

Just had a thought... do you record your gigs? I use a Zoom 4k stereo thing which I put out front (and hope someone doesn't steal it!) and it pretty much records the audio as the audience would be hearing it at that point. 

At the last gig I managed to put it on top of a light fitting (admittedly most of the audience weren't listening to the gig at that location) but it gave an excellent view of the band and we got the balance about right so we're actually using parts of it (the bits we didn't c@ck up) for a live recording. 

This is a good idea. I’ve got a little Zoom H1 I can try and hide somewhere.

2 hours ago, Aunty said:

The survey pretty much reflects my experience, although twice now I’ve had Amazon deliveries of ‘tech’ where the manufacturer packaging was empty and the brown Amazon box intact (presumably the item was removed at the warehouse?). Luckily, Amazon believed me on both occasions and sent replacements - no idea how I could actually prove the boxes were empty if I had to 🤷‍♂️

I know Amazon get a lot of negativity from various angles. However, their deliveries almost always arrive when they say the will, and their customer service is typically fuss-free if something goes wrong.

1 hour ago, diskwave said:

A good drummer "plays" the drums the way you and I play our instruments, he does not "bash" the drums as loud as possible. How old is this guy fgs, sounds like a teen that hasn't a clue.

 

He's about as far away you can be from being a teen and still be a gigging drummer!

I feel I've portrayed him in a pretty bad light here. He does have dynamics in his playing, and isn't always smashing everything. But, when he goes for it, he's loud. Our set is full of upbeat crowd pleasers, so this is fairly often. In smaller venues, the close proximity of the mic to the speakers just makes it it difficult for vocals to keep up.

12 hours ago, Count Bassy said:

 

I think they conuse "Lost" with "Stolen"

It's difficult to not assume so when things like bass strings and cycling tops always get delivered on time, but a disproportionate number of high value deliveries vanish.

I just can't quite figure out the scam... in some cases, you can see the item has been scanned in to a local depot, then just vanishes. Is nobody questioning why on the same day that a designer handbag didn't get scanned on to a van, that someone is leaving the premises with a similarly sized package? Dealing with lots of readily saleable items and an ever changing workforce, I'd expect fairly high security.

In others, the item has been scanned on a van, and the status changes to 'delayed' at some point during the day and the item never arrives. I don't imagine a van driver could get away with just keeping something and not deliver or return it to the depot in such cases.

1 hour ago, StingRayBoy42 said:

He *refuses* to play quieter?

Despite being told that he's making the band sound bad?

You don't need a different vocal mic, you need a different drummer.

To be fair, I don’t think the penny has quite dropped that his loud drums are the root cause of feedback on the vocal mic.

I’ve been fairly diplomatic and indirect after he threatened to quit in the past. Like ‘the overall volume of the band needs to be lower so we don’t crank the mic to the point of feedback’

Comments from other band members about ‘gremlins in the desk’, or how it must be a setting somewhere don’t help. 

I think more than anything, I need to be more direct when hint isn’t taken.

23 hours ago, Doctor J said:

Precisely why I asked the question 😉

 

If he can't adjust his own level in his IEMs outside of how hard he hits the drums, in response to the varying dynamics of the electric instruments in his ears, it might be part of the reason he's playing so hard and one which could be quite easy to remedy.

I'd wager he wouldn't play quite so hard if he could hear kick and snare loud and clear in his mix.

 

He definitely can hear himself - he’s using a Roland trigger setup, which is primarily for his own monitoring.

On 29/10/2024 at 20:12, redbandit599 said:

I was going to suggest fully micing the kit if you don't already - I don't have your 'extra loud' drummer problem, but he's not a tickler either. We always fully mic even in small venues and find this easier to get a good balanced sound (always use PA with subs.) We aren't really loud, but definitely punchy. Might enable a compromise of a quieter kit if it is still sounding fat out front maybe? 

Our drummer uses one of these Yamaha drum modules with his acoustic kit - gets a great sound through the PA and IEMs and doesn't need all the usual multiple mics. https://www.yamahamusiclondon.com/EAD10-Electro-Acoustic-Drum-System/pidJEAD10UK?srsltid=AfmBOoqEQD8eMh-s98f8OovD0H13NV9WFUCw_SDRmMSzGmaONxz8eoxS

 

He has a Roland trigger module set up. I’m generally only putting a bit of low end out via the (aux fed) subs in smaller places, and the full sound at a comparatively low lover in bigger places.

I think there’s a mindset that he’s playing rock, so needs to hit hard - rather than any concern about being heard. Perhaps a point to discuss though.

24 minutes ago, Buddster said:

If he's using IEMs, does he actually know you're getting feedback? 

Set up a mic in front of the PA on a hidden fader (from the drummer) and send the feedback into his IEMs (doesn't have to be deafening, aa tempting as it may be!) 

 

In the immortal words of Reg Presley 

"drummers, I sh1t 'um" 

Yeah, he knows what's going on - it ends up coming through the vocal channel.

12 minutes ago, 40hz said:

Sorry to hear of the issue, OP. I've been in this scenario a few times. It seems to be (on the whole, but not always) a drummer thing, the culture of drums must be loud and noisy - think Animal from the Muppets, but of course this rarely works in the real world, with the venues most weekend warriors play.

 

With my own experience, it gets to a point where you just have to flatly tell them, as uncomfortable as it is. A few times I ended up not turning up my amp to compensate, and neither did the guitarist, and it kinda made him realise off his own back - which is usually the best way to get people to realise/understand!

There is definitely a drummer thing about being loud. My kid's drum tutor is always telling him as much during lessons, although in fairness my kid self-identifies as a metal head!

The drummer is using IEMs, and controls his own mix via a tablet... he's got as much of us in his ears as he likes. I am guiding the band down a path of 'the overall volume needs to come down so folk can hear the singer without feedback'. We'll see how this weekend's gig goes.

Thanks,

George

1 minute ago, Buddster said:

Just because you do the sound, I don't think it's just your problem. Doesn't the singer get annoyed with the feedback? Or everyone else? Tell them they can't go any louder because of the drummer. 

I've mixed bands with loud drummers, and tell them the sound wasn't great because their drumner drowned everything else out (same with lead guitarists). 

It's everyone's problem, not just yours. 

This is very true, and I should probably be more assertive about the point. I kind of dance around the point to avoid upsetting the drummer.

I think there's a misinformed view that because we have fairly good quality gear, a digital mixer and no amps on stage, that doing the sound is a doddle.

1 hour ago, DaytonaRik said:

Is the drummer adverse to using an eKit?  They don't have to be cheap and plastic looking, and when linked with some of the drum plugins from Steven Slate and ToonTracks you'd be hard pushed to tell them apart from an acoustic kit in any mix.  Yes it's an investment but it then becomes better for rehearsals, home practice etc.  Just a thought?

 

My eKit for reference!

 

The idea has been touted by a couple of us. He would consider some of the high-end ones costing thousands if he could financially justify it - but definitely not a lower end one.

I do get it - my kid plays drums, and barely played the Yamaha electronic kit I bought him for the house. You should see what I have in my spare room now... 

1 minute ago, Franticsmurf said:

Would it be an option to get one of the other band members to do the sound? Once the others start to appreciate the problems as well peer pressure may improve the situation.

The exact scenario will be put to the test at Xmas time… the singer booked the small venue I mentioned above despite knowing I couldn’t do it. It’s just the bass after all. They’ve got a dep covering it.

27 minutes ago, BassAdder60 said:

The SM58 is a standard but still isn’t the best for avoiding feedback in small setups 

 

It seems to pick up too much from all directions so it is prone to feedback

 

Great vocal  mic but feedback can be tough. The wireless version is even worse ! 

 

 

8 minutes ago, JoeEvans said:

I seem to remember that the Audix OM7 vocal mic is good for this situation - very directional, although the singer needs to get right up close to the mic to get the best from it. I think it's a common choice for very loud stages. Might be worth a try? 

Thank you both. It’s definitely something practical to consider.

Just now, BassAdder60 said:

Been there, some vocal mikes are terrible for feedback especially with female singers who lack power 

 

There are a few around that seem to be better without being very expensive. Worth a try and a decent PA rig helps as I found the low cost Alto etc are hard to get clarity out of unless cranked and then they feedback ! 

The mic in question is an SM58. I know it's the 'standard', but don't know well it performs in situations like this. Happy to look at any suggestions.

The PA itself is of decent quality, Crown amps with separate subs and tops - I can't remember the name, but they weren't the budget option.