solo4652

Don't quite know what to make of this idea...

OK - quick update from last night, folks. We arrived at venue at 5, just about ready to play by 8-30. Smallish stage meant we had to move things around quite a bit from our usual positions. While setting up, I kept asking: "Why do we..." The early-evening reply from BL and drummer was; "Steve - you don't understand what we're doing, do you?" I meant to take an inventory of the PA kit, but was too busy fetching and carrying. I did note that front speakers are pole-mounted 15" Mackies of some sort. Rear of stage are two new 15" pole-mounted full-range Yamahas ("£900 each, Steve.."), with one perched above an enormous 18" Yamaha sub. Three floor wedge monitors out front. Myself and guitarist went through our own rigs. BL ended up standing right in front of one of the rear speakers and quickly started to comment on the volume.

I had the chance to speak to the drummer as we went out for pizzas. As I suspected, he's very happy to have his electronic drums through the rear speakers.

Me: "Don't you find the stage too noisy?"

Drummer: "No, I'm used to much more volume than this"

Me: "Why can't you go through the front speakers?"

D: "Because they're poor quality, and my electronic drums sound crap through them"

Me: "We could put the new Yamahas out front - they're full-range, aren't they? - and put everybody through them. Use whatever floor monitors are necessary, and dispense with the Mackies and the sub completely. What do you think?"

D: "I'm not sure the speakers would cope with that. My bass drum and your bass would surely interact. And, I like to feel my bass drum. Remember that we're aiming for a lush, full sound."

At that point, I decided not to press the point any further.

Having said all that, the gig went very well. The venue manager said; "Best band I've heard in 35 years. We'll definitely have you back, and I'll get you booked in for some weddings too". BL stood in front of one of the rear speakers and was seen wincing. The load-out included dropping everything off at BL's house, and lead singer was heard to comment, "I think we need to have a word with (BL) about all this stuff..."

So, I think that wheels have been set in motion for some pressure to be put onto BL. However, we'll need to work on his son - the drummer. 

Steve

47 minutes ago, lemmywinks said:

Why are you the one turning up early to help cart all this junk around? It's bad enough you have to suffer through this dual PA nonsense let alone being the one carrying it all! I hope your gig doesn't involve stairs. If band members want to live through some infantile rock fantasy then the least they can do is load the equipment in and out of the van.

I know it might be a futile effort but have you mentioned in ears to them? 

Well, because I try to be helpful and a good band-member. Also, I live close to the rehearsal room (and tonight's gig venue), while the lead guitarist and lead singer don't.

1 hour ago, pete.young said:

In a pub party band doing soft rock/pop, soul, funk?

I'd be running away at this point. If he was truly accomplished he'd realise that double-kick is totally inappropriate for any of these styles.

 

I'm not saying he double-kicks on all songs! He can, and does, pull back when he needs to. However, with Hush, You know my name, You're all I have, Feeling Good (Muse), Learn to Fly - things can get pretty, errrrm, frantic.

I have a suspicion that our drummer quite likes having his electronic kit firing out from behind him. He's a very accomplished double-kick rock drummer and is egged-on by our Malmsteen-loving (prog) rock guitarist, and UFO-fan lead vocalist when he (drummer) gives it the two-foot bass drum treatment. I'm left standing there shaking my head and mouthing "You noisy b**stards" at them. They giggle at me. I suspect the band leader is under some pressure to go large with the PA and volume from these 3 individuals. The drummer is his son.

My gig timetable for today: go to rehearsal room at 4 o'clock to help load all the PA stuff, electronic drums, monitors, lights, into cars. Drive about 4 miles to the venue and unload, and help set up. Guitarist and singer have been asked to arrive by 6-30 to get their kit in, and sound check done. Show time is 8-30. After gig, help with breakdown, take stuff to band leaders house, go home. What a faff.

18 minutes ago, FuNkShUi said:

You cant push the bast*rd in and drown him?

He's a nice guy, actually, and I get on well with him. Part of the problem may be that he's trying to keep the band's two sub-camps happy - there's the loud 'n' blokey rockers, and there's the groove-oriented soul funksters, which is where I am.

Quick update: Quietly and carefully, behind the scenes, I've put the main points from this message thread to the band leader, including Mike257's kind offer of advice. Not a word back yet. We're gigging 7th and 13th April. I'll watch what happens - see what changes, if any are made - and then take a view on the situation. You can lead a horse to water, but.....

11 hours ago, mike257 said:

If you want to let me know what kit you've got, I'd be more than happy to advise on how to get the best out of it without blowing your head off on stage - running it at full tilt right behind you is definitely not the way!

That's very generous Mike. Thank you. I'll choose my moment with him and put your kind offer to him in as unthreatening way I can muster. See what he says.

Steve

PM'd you regarding your offer.

Well - it's a pretty consistent picture that's emerging from you guys. Thanks to everybody for your advice. I've sent most responses (carefully edited) to band leader, saying that since I don't know much about PA systems, I asked "some experienced musos" for their independent advice. We're gigging the next two weekends and band leader has said that we won't be changing the set up, but that we'll have a pow-wow after that. 

Slightly edited response from band leader just now:

"What we are doing is using the rear PA to be electronic drum amp, acoustic guitar amp ,electric guitar amp ,keyboard amp for (the guitar) synth ,keyboard amp for (singer's) keyboard plus some vocal bleed to keep us in place in a song .It`s being five amps .... effectively . The front PA is vocals and some keyboard and is linked to monitors which share the same feed and balance, as the desk does not have enough monitor sends to split any more . I don’t think the overall volume is that bad I just think you are standing with your ears about 9 inches from the top box which is dominating all you hear ."

Our band leader is English, recently returned from living in France for 15 years.

26 minutes ago, BassBunny said:

Steve, agree with everything mentioned so far. It is massive overkill and will be causing you a lot of problems having speakers at the rear.

As far as earplugs go, get a pair of proper Audio ones not the type shooters use. Alpine Musicsafe or Elacin er 25 are a good starter. What they do is filter out the harmful frequencies and still allow you to hear what is going on. I suspect the "shotgun" type ones are just designed to block out as much noise as possible.

It's not a bad idea to use earplugs anyway regardless of whether you feel you need them.

Thanks BB. I've just ordered the Alpines - should have them for this weekend's gig.

1 hour ago, Happy Jack said:

Is it possible that he's just doing this because he can, rather than because it actually achieves anything useful?

Yes, I think that's part of it. Band leader is very experienced - used to run a pro level function band in France for 10 years. That's experience I don't have, so I'm gathering information before having a serious moan.

The PA system is brand new. I don't know the brand or details but, knowing our band leader, it won't be rubbish. My rig is Hartke LH 500 through a 210 cabinet rated at 700 Watts, placed behind me. Last night I was approaching max volume on the head and bass. Ringing in ears this morning.

I've emailed band leader this morning to ask why we need 4 speakers, including a 15" subwoofer at stage rear. I've asked if we can just use the front speakers from now on. We already have stage monitors. I've asked before and nothing's changed. 

Off to Decathlon now to buy some ear plugs designed for use by clay-pigeon shooters. Shouldn't be necessary, in my opinion.

I play in a pretty decent pub 'n' party band. Pop, soft-rock, soul, funk stuff. 5-piece line-up; lead guitar, lead singer + keys, electronic drums, rhythm guitarist/guitar synth, both guitarists on BV's, myself on bass.

Band leader insists on using 4 PA speakers - two at stage rear on stands, two out front on stands. Fronts carry mostly vocals and keys. Rears (including huge subwoofer) carry drums, rhythm guitar + guitar synth. Myself and lead guitar don't go through PA - we use our own backline.  I tried going through the PA recently, primarily to reduce the amount of stuff on stage,  but I just seemed to constantly clash with the bass drum, resulting in mush. Inevitably, I usually end up standing right in front of one of the rear PA speakers, and I can't hear myself think. I've repeatedly asked for the volume to be turned down, but to no avail. I'm now having to use ear plugs which I don't really want to do.

I don't profess to know a great deal about PA systems, so could somebody help me to understand why we need 4 speakers, please? The two speakers at the rear of the stage really ramp up the on-stage volume to (for me,) unacceptable levels. I've played in many pub covers bands, and this is the first one that uses 4 PA speakers.

Steve

Back in December I posted a wanted ad for a 2U rack bag for my Hartke LH500. I think somebody contacted me saying that had one, but I can't find their message. Can you please PM me if it was you.

Thanks,  Steve

1 hour ago, fleabag said:

Are you  asbo lootly sure that the previous owner didn't leave his pet Chihuahua in the back of the cab ?

 

Well, I've had a pretty good look, but I haven't found anything yet. Have I missed something obvious?

28 minutes ago, Cuzzie said:

When you said Dog did you mean a canine, or a ropey looking version of the fairer sex

Both...

26 minutes ago, KiOgon said:

I hope the neighbourhood cats don't smell it - in the shed - with the door open - see where I'm going with this?

My own cat doesn't seem too interested in it, but I take your point! Maybe I'll leave the shed door slightly ajar so no animals can get in.

Right then -full-on attack. Unscrewed the top plate and gently hoovered everything I dared. Wiped as much as I could with some pet odour-eliminator spray I had. Whole lot is in the shed with the door open to get some fresh air circulating round it. I'll put it all back together this afternoon and see (smell) what we've got. Let's hope it doesn't end up smelling like my hoover, or my shed. Rock and roll, eh!?

10 hours ago, scalpy said:

Both! Normally ok on gigs in stage clothes but if he’s been out walking on the day of rehearsal and it’s a bit damp it’s a bit much in a hot rehearsal studio! Lovely bloke though and cracking drummer. Cats all the way for me. By the way, after a recent experience with my amp I can recommend hoovering the inside. 

On a serious note just for a moment, how careful must I be if I hoover inside the thing? Don't want to damage anything. I'll use a soft brush and go gently. Anything else I should be aware of?

14 minutes ago, RandomBass said:

Seriously though, have you had it apart and looked and cleaned inside? Wasn't sure if the hoovering was just external.

External hoovering only. If I open the amp up and start messing with it, I'll end up with a dog's dinner...

29 minutes ago, KiOgon said:

One of our cats p1553d in the VHS player once, had to throw it away and the video player

Ha! made me giggle, that!

I bought a used LH500 off Gumtree. It's 5 years old, but the original owner says he's hardly used it. It certainly looks mint. It sounds great - just as I was hoping, and all the knobs and switches work properly. But - it smells. Like a dog. The smell seems to be coming from the right-hand side front and rear vents, as opposed to the middle back vent. I've washed out the foam filter and hoovered everywhere I can, which isn't that much. What do we think, team? Is this simply dust which will dissipate with use, or is it a sign of something more sinister like a failing valve? 

PM'd