PaulKing

Hey I found this on TalkBass. Amazing.

Really good intel Pete, thanks so much for this. Lodged in memory... I think the Whirlwind EQ is pretty transparent when switched off, but that's probably just an ignorant presumption. (Edit ... nope, it claims true bypass switching, and constant Q EQing ... perhaps I'm safe there) I checked, LMII loop certainly is Line level. I better watch out for clipping there then. Why do I still feel like an amateur after 30years playing live music... always so much good stuff to learn.

Genius. Yep I just figured the same as I finished typing my ramble. Cheers!

I believe ya mate! Perseverance pays off: At the weekend I set up at home to try things out cos it didn't make sense. I had a hunch it may be a weird compatibility thing with the Whirlwind EQ pedal. So here's my genius solution! I normally run my pedals in a chain before the amp: Wireless receiver - EQ - tuner - amp. It's convenient and reliable, means I can plug same set-up into any amp that's on stage with one cable. So, I plugged NuX straight into amp and... fine - indistinguishable from Line6, as you'd expect. So how about I stick the EQ and tuner on the FX loop? BOOM. In fact, just connecting the FX loop (even with EQ off) made the output noticeably fuller and louder. (Why is that? - had same effect when Line6 plugged into amp too) (**Edit - just looked it up, Markbass uses parallel FX loop, so adds FX loop signal to dry signal... well I never) Anyway that seemed to fix it, at least in home setting. So: NuX straight into amp. EQ and Tuner on FX loop. I do lose the tuner's auto-mute which is a shame. (Just had a thought ... I should try tuner inbetween receiver and amp. Yeh!) And I may need to improvise with house amps if they don't have FX loops. Thankyou for listening...

Brief update for future ref. 1) I found the cause of the rattle! The replacement unit had same issue - it's the power switch on the unit. Doh. I put a piece of tape over it to stop it buzzing. Minor design fault. 2) Tested at gig this week. Plugged receiver into whirlwind EQ pedal, exactly same as usual set up with Line6. Hmm... inconclusive. I couldn't dial in my normal tone. Overall level seemed lower. I think I detected the time lag more than Line6 (but not sure of that), and the tone seemed oddly coloured, boxy and resonant/unfocussed. I persisted through first set, probably overcompensated by turning up vol too much. Band commented .. so I switched back to Line6 for rest of night. Immediate improvement. Hmm, disappointing. 3) I ran spectrum test in DAW. Underwood via Cable vs Cable/Preamp vs Line6 wireless vs NU-X wireless vs JOYO wireless, all into Focusrite 2i2 interface. All looked and sounded perfect with the NU-X ... indistinguishable from Line6. As expected, from worst to best: Cable - very weak, low level, thin sound JOYO - barely improved from cable Line6 & NU-X - identical full, bass-rich, high-volume. Basically same tone as preamp, slightly lower level. Cable/Preamp - best tone of all ... perhaps exaggerated by internal gain on preamp. So in conclusion, I want to try the NU-X in a couple different settings, because I love the convenience of it. Can't figure why I struggled with it at gig. Maybe something incompatible going in to EQ pedal? But cant think what...

Nice one thanks - yep, expect that's the deal. I saw the exact same issue in a YouTube review of another brand. Just a bit of stray solder inside or a fingernail or something. Shame I was gonna use it tomorrow night at a memorial concert where I have 5min changeovers twice in an evening, sharing amp with bass guitarists. At least its a MarkBass so I'll know what I'm doing with it. I'll play safe with a lead and Schatten MiniPre for super simple super fast changeover.

Hey up @Paddy Morris- quick comparison here: Does the transmitter unit on your NUX rattle when you shake it? Just got mine 30mins ago, plugged it in and there's a fatal buzz around C. Turns out there's something rattling inside the transmitter unit, which resonates loud enough that the bass picks it up and transmits as audio signal. So that's no use at all. Sending straight back for a replacement and hoping its just a one-off fault, rather than design fault! (Incidentally, as expected, sound appears to be a million times better than Joyo direct into Piezo - though nerdy spectrum analysis will have to wait).

Oh alright then, if you insist. I'll blame you.

Stop it, I'm skint!! Line6 has cable tone ... you can choose 6m or 12m! I can't hear any difference though. I don't even know what cable tone is supposed to sound like eek. I'm interested how the latency feels in a gig situation. NUX is a fraction more than the line6 - which is only ever a problem for me when I really go walkabout. Which i do occasionally. I still want one for when the Line 6 craps out which it has to eventually... its done hundreds of hours.

I find the technique that works best is to wait until you're not playing any notes. Seems to bypass that problem.😜 Still cheesy as cheesy peas, but to hell with it. If you're playing in 12 bar D you can flip it end-over onto the scroll and play open notes. That was pretty usual business for me for a while. Gotta love an open-note bassline, so subtle. 😁

Ain't it the truth. Ruins your bass too, all that nonsense. Mine get more dog-eared every gig.

It would appear they have. Because .... (drum roll) >1MOhm input impedance. 👍 Hooray!!! Piezo friendly! None other than Mr Gollihur recommends this: https://gollihurmusic.com/wireless-instrument-system-c-5rc-5-8-ghz-with-included-charging-case/?srsltid=AfmBOorwoZ6ZSI_LC1NllFLzc3RyC_waUxujIQJjw4zeAR4v1GHXL_IO Nice article ... says exactly what I've been rabbiting on about. Right, this might be going on the xmas present list. But it is £120 vs £30-£40 for the cheapo low impedance ones.

@Paddy MorrisIf they'd made it in 5.8GHz back in the day I'd have bought it for sure But even so, no I've never had any issues with drop out or interference, even playing busy venues. I do notice a latency delay if I stray too far from the stage, which I have a habit of doing. Well more correctly my band mates do 😆. I've never regretted buying two of these ... very sad that one of the transmitters has become unreliable after all these years. And yep, input impedance is 1.4MOhms. Boom.

Do what? Bunkum chap! You're totally right the cut gets bigger as the frequency gets lower. That's exactly what an impedance mis-match does! But look at it, EVERYTHING below 1k is significantly cut. That is a huge loss of energy at the bottom end. LUFS meter would plummet with all that meat gone! Honestly, if you could hear the audio of those signals, it was a really big difference.. like someone rolled the bass and low mid knobs on your amp down to 1. So I answered my question: YES the JOYO has a normal / general purpose (ie low) input-impedance (presumably 220kOhms). Perfect for bass guitar, or pre-amped signal, but rules out using it without a buffer/preamp/active circuitry between the piezo and the transmitter. For me. 100%. Cos otherwise it's only sending a shadow of the signal coming out of the pickup (as my ears clearly told me, and the spectrum shows). If you had to, you could EQ it to boost those missing low ends, or cut the mids and highs to level out the signal before boosting everything... but you're building a noisier, more feedbacky signal and it's all just a bit... urghh. Why throw away half your signal then try to artificially boost it back? 😆 Course it doesn't matter a jot if you HAVE got a preamp BEFORE the wireless, or active electronics... or even a mag pup like whot you got. I just want as little crap as poss hanging off my bass ... even if the Schatten MiniPre is only the size of a sardine can. 👍 I shall enjoy using the JOYO with my bass guitar, as I'd intended in the first place. Thanks for the recommendation!

But of course Jack ... you must have a pre-amp mounted to your bass right? In which case this is what you're getting: 5. Schatten Mini-pre into Joyo. Lush, perfect. But it needs that pre-amp! Move along now.

@Happy Jack boom! 10pts, you were right. Connected Joyo via a patch lead and female-female connector, it worked. @PaulKing boom! 10pts, I was right. Signal is shite ... (Jack ... I urge you to check what's reaching your amp! What are you missing out on??!!) Here's my test results, identical settings all round, Shadow piezo, open E, quarter notes plucked in same place, identical acoustic volume. Only variance is the connection to Focusrite Interface: 1. Cable (raw, no preamp) = totally shite. Sounds it too, barely audible, no bottom end. Look at total volume on right as well. 2. Schatten Mini-pre / cable = rich and full and awesome. Didn't realise it rolled off top end so much. 3. Joyo = better than raw cable, but barely. Almost no bottom end, weedy middy sound compared to Line6 and Cable/Preamp. 4. Line6 wireless = rich and full and awesome. Best signal of all!! Honestly, it was no trouble at all. 😉

Interesting, never thought of that. Will give it some wiggle. I just compared, if anything Joyo is 1mm longer than standard jack, which means it'd just sit proud. And funny it was on BOTH piezos. Are you using a piezo then?

Anyway. @Happy Jack what flipping pick up do you use with the Lekato? (their WS-50 bug is listed at 220kOhms input impedance, same as the Joyo I think). Cos I got ZILCH through the Joyo with Underwood and Shadow (piezo). (Didn't try Bassmax actually, maybe should. Although immaterial really, cos if it doesn't work with Underwood its no good for me upright-wise.) Weird, it just crackled, farted, hinted a few bits of tone then decided it wasn't playing. I switched between cable and Line 6 and Joyo repeatedly - it only happened with the Joyo. So there's something going on there with output and impedance and all that nonsense. Hmm ... just for the mystery solving I shoulda tried pickup-preamp-Joyo. That would confirm if it's just an impedance thing. Never mind - I bought it to replace Line6 on bass guitar and it works fine with that.

Ah I see what I did. A lazy k slipped in there! 600Hz I meant. well spotted. doh. At my age I'm lucky if I can hear as high as 600Hz, let alone 600kHz.

Good to hear, cheers matey. I can definitely hear the loss of low end from mis-matched impedance if I ever plug straight into an amp - so I fear the same plugged into low impedance wireless. My Line6 acts like a pre-amp between piezo and amp, and I get a richer warmer sound because of it. I'll let you know if the Joyo compares favourably! I take your point about aluminium/rock and roll etc 😁! But I do find that having a good rich signal to start with can make a real difference to EQing and cutting through mix.

I ran it through spectrum analyser! Fundamental notes were identical, but some harmonics peaks were missing with Joyo compared to cable. Plus it just sounded a bit ... emptier in the high-mids. But like I say, could've been how I was playing it. I also played some single notes and the spectrums were pretty much identical, to be fair.

@Happy Jack - have you ever looked up input impedance of the Joyo transmitter? I just picked one up (JW-02S without charging unit) to use with bass guitar. Ran a few tests and I have to say it performs bloody well - frequency distribution barely distinguishable from cable. Possibly some limitation of upper harmonics above 600k, but that could easily be how I was plucking strings. Nice. But can I use it with upright / piezo? I'll give it a try, but I've a feeling the input impedance might be too low. Can't find any info on-line, apart from a spec for the older JW-02, which quotes a measly 220KOhms. That's gonna be too low for a piezo really, expect it'll thin the sound out a bit. Do you ever notice that?? It's one of the main things I've always liked about the Line6 gear (which I'm still using for upright gigs) - transmitter input impedance is 1.3MOhms. 👍

I'm still really happy with my Roth & Junius after a few years heavy use. Recommended, good value. https://www.thomann.co.uk/roth_junius_bsb_04_3_4_og_bass_soft_bag.htm £219 Ample protection, thick foam, really sturdy handles everywhere you need them, comfy 'rucksack' shoulder straps with back-up straps round the neck, strong zips. Doesn't show any signs of strain anywhere. They do a 4/4 too, if the Alcoa needs it. Only downer is that it is quite bulky for storage. Doesn't easily fold down or compress, so needs almost as much space as the bass itself.