Doddy

9 minutes ago, chris_b said:

 

I wonder what was behind that Will Lee story? Seems odd that a player of his stature in the NY session business didn't nail the exact tone they wanted. Maybe he was too busy? I wouldn't have expected to see Lee Sklar on a Billy Cobham record, but he was obviously doing something right.

But this was before Will Lee became the session legend that he became, and he was part of the band Dreams. He was playing a modified P Bass, and apparently Cobham told him that he needed to get his sound together if he wanted to play sessions. He obviously listened.

44 minutes ago, BigRedX said:

Maybe before the advent of 24 track recording in the 70s, but since then any engineer worth their salt would have stuck a safety DI on the bass before the amp. IME unless there were some weird electronics in the bass itself it should be perfectly possible to get a bass sound to allow the producer to salvage the take. 

It's not about salvaging a take at that level though. If someone doesn't sound good, they'll get someone in who does. There are plenty of stories around of players being told that they didn't have their sound together, and/or being replaced in the studio.

15 minutes ago, BigRedX said:

With my producer's hat on, it seems very strange to hire someone well known and then not use them on the actual finished version. IME (unless it is something very extreme and completely different from what I was expecting) tone is nearly always fixable when it come to mixing the track. I'd be more likely to reject the part if the musician had been asked to come up with their own baseline and it wasn't what I was hoping for rather than their sound wasn't right.

I'm guessing it happens more than you'd think, or at least used to. If a player has a bad sound, there is only so much that an engineer or soundman can do. You can't just have a bad sound and expect someone else to make it better- it should be there from the start.

1 hour ago, NancyJohnson said:

Yep. Still needed to reply.  It's a curse.

I'm sure Will Lee knows his poop, but almost certainly I doubt one instance of rejection has hardly made a dent in his career path, endorsements or tenure in Paul Schaeffer's Most Dangerous Band In The World (or whatever they were called).

 

He's clearly done very well, quite deservedly-He's one of the best in the buisness. I'm just pointing out that tone does matter to people, especially those who are hiring you. Every great player has spent time on their sound at some point.

44 minutes ago, NancyJohnson said:

Yeah, I have.  Amazing really. 

No sorry, I made that up.  What I meant to say was, can't say I have and don't really care.

And yet you still felt the need to reply.

If you think tone doesn't matter, that's cool, but it matters to a lot of people, not just bass players. When big name players talk about losing work because of their sound, I think it's worth listening to them.

6 minutes ago, AndyTravis said:

wow...2014 😟

thought this was last year...you know you’re getting old when...ah, wrong thread.

I love that performance, and saw her on that tour. 

She's one of those artists who's always changing her vibe. That clip, and the whole self titled album, was a big change from her previous albums, and the one after (Masseduction) was as different again. The new album look like a change in direction again. That's what keeps her interesting, to me.

1 hour ago, NancyJohnson said:

While I'm sure the OP harbours a passion and an element of madness for his/her tone, I'll pass along something that I've learnt from my long and varied experience of bass playing in bands and studio sessions, it's that (read carefully); nobody except you cares what you sound like.

I completely disagree with this. I think your tone is a big part of who you are as a player, and it does matter to people who are hiring you for gigs and recording.

Have you heard the story about Will Lee recording the demos for Billy Cobhams 'Spectrum', but being dropped from the master session because his tone sucked at the time?  

6 hours ago, AndyTravis said:

I’m not getting that vibe - I feel like someone’s trying to market St Vincent as an artist who’s already had their heyday and is currently in a cool experimental phase.

She's been in a cool experimental phase for her last 3 or 4 albums.

I loved Justin Meldal-Johnsen's tone on the Hofner. I've never really been a fan of the Hofner sound, but there has been a couple of moments lately that make me want one. This track being one of them.

I'm a big fan of St Vincent anyway. She's the only modern mainstream artist that does anything for me. 

I haven't used the synth9 but if you're after that Moog-ish, analogue synth kind of sound, I really like the EHX Bass Microsynth.  No presets, no programming, just move the sliders. It's easy, and it sounds good.

Just now, EBS_freak said:

I know you’re a competent player so I’m not directing this at you - but as somebody who books players, the one that gets to the gig on time, learns the parts, doesn’t get whizzed etc would get the job over somebody with sounds.

I’d book a keys player for sounds though - defo.

All that goes without saying though. No one is booking someone who is late and can't handle the gig.  But being able to replicate the sounds is the added extra that can take things up a notch. 

1 hour ago, EBS_freak said:

Yeah - but nobody has ever complained at a wedding because the bass player didn't play I Wanna Dance With Somebody or Uptown Funk on a Moog.

Maybe not, but there are a lot of bandleaders who will book you again because you can replicate the sounds.

I do agree that you should have your sounds and levels pretty much sorted before the gig, although you might still need a quick tweak before soundcheck.

What kind of playing are you planning on doing with the rig?  If you're just playing at home, I'd suggest something like a Fender Rumble or an Ashdown Session, because the 2 rigs you mentioned are both pretty big.

If you're set on wanting one of those two rigs, I'd edge towards the Hartke, purely because I'm not crazy about Mark Bass heads, but either will be good.

I'll generally give the sound engineer my clean sound, followed by a quick pass through some pedals. Maybe not all my pedals, but at least some drive and sub. They don't like when you kick on a Meatbox unannounced. 

I use in ears on nearly all my gigs but I still like an amp behind me, even if it's only a 1x12. It also gives me a chance to fiddle around with levels and sounds before soundcheck.

21 minutes ago, drTStingray said:

Jaco was very R and B (which is where funk and disco bass had its roots) - but River People has a disco style octaved bass part with hi hat sixteenths - pure disco!!

Jaco appeared to be into sequencer style lines - also appeared in River People. Even Teen Town could be considered a sequencer-style line. 

I'm not arguing there.  I know Jaco was heavily influenced by soul and R&B. What I meant is you'd never call Jaco a 'disco player'- he wasn't doing those kind of sessions. River People had that influence, but it's not going to get confused with The Hustle.  

My whole point is that bringing Jaco in to a discussion about slapping and disco is completely pointless, in the same way you wouldn't really talk about Larry Graham in a discussion about fusion (even though there may be some influence there).

58 minutes ago, Bean9seventy said:

find me the jaco studio 54 tune ,,, ?? good question ,, the failed disco player is our nick name for jaco lol ,,  i am sure there are others you guys find more fitting ; D

Irrelevant.

Show me a jazz/fusion tune with Larry Graham?   Would you call Larry a failed jazz player? Of course you wouldn't. 

It's a useless equivalency. Jaco didn't do the disco thing, and Larry didn't play fusion or write big band arrangements.

Dude, I'm not ragging on you. I liked your initial topic, but somewhere along the line you've gone in to a strange place where you're slagging off Jaco and Janek for not playing disco.

Probably the easiest way in to effects is to buy a relatively inexpensive multi effects like a Zoom B3 or a Line 6 M5. They are good sounding units that are perfectly giggable, and they'll let you play around and find sounds you like. Alternatively, you can buy some good inexpensive pedals these days. TC Electronic make a good range of pedals that are under £50 each.  It really depends if you have specific sounds that you know you want, or if you just want to play around and experiment.  If you get in to effects, it can get expensive, as you keep looking for the next cool sound.

Also, have a listen to guys like Tim Lefebvre, Doug Wimbish, Janek Gwizdala, Justin Meldal Johnsen, and Juan Alderete (amongst others) to hear how they work effects in to their playing.

What the hell are you on about dude?

Calling Jaco a failed disco player, and bringing Janek in to it for no reason? Both these guys are killer players and irrelevant to your discussion. Just because their influences and styles are more from the Jazz world doesn't mean you should talk about them in a derogatory way in a thread about slap bass. 

As far as I'm concerned you've just invalidated your own discussion.

12 minutes ago, drTStingray said:

Thinking back, and the mention of famous players and instructional videos, I saw the Brothers Johnson when they were part of Billy Preston's backing band in the early 70s - quite by accident - they supported the R Stones on a UK tour - I'm pretty sure LJ was using the style even then - 

Louis Johnson always said that he developed his slap technique without knowing about Larry Graham. I believe that because even though they both slap, their techniques are very different.

10 hours ago, Bean9seventy said:

after slap goes world wide from some typical euro type disco pop song in 1978 ,, folks say, who really invented it ? lets find him (larry graham ) & do a video ,,

 

Slap had clearly gone worldwide well before the late 70s disco era, because the players who played the style on those tracks were already on to it. Although, admittedly, that era may have helped to bring it to the listening public. The music world was on to it and there were players who had already started to take it further.

That video probably wasn't about "let's find who invented slap". At that time, there were no instructional videos on any style of bass playing, so they got a bunch of big name players (Graham, Neil Stubenhaus, Verdine White, Chuck Rainey, Nathan East, and Abe Laboriel) to talk about their styles, and released 3 videos. Sure, Larry Graham's section features the slap technique, but so does Chuck Rainey's.

3 hours ago, hiram.k.hackenbacker said:

Then, now this is the clever part, directly above where the 1 meter square mat is, cut a matching hole in the ceiling. You might have to make the ceiling hole slightly oversize to counter the reach of the neck when you remove it, but I honestly can’t see any flaw in this method.

I tried this. The guy in the upstairs flat went mental.

10 hours ago, Bean9seventy said:

LOL we often refer to that as "wes" montgomerys brother ,, you get points for this even tho its a photo ,, reason why is because wes montgomeys brother ,, was into sharp & flat notes ,, could only got the method from miles ,, thanks

I'm sorry, but I really don't understand this comment.

What do you mean he "was into sharp & flat notes"? Did everyone else just play diatonic to the key of C?                   "Could only got the method from Miles"? Meaning what? 

Out of intetest Monk (who had a good career away from his brother) didn't slap the bass. He plucked with his thumb, which was Fenders original idea of how to play the bass, hence the finger bar under the strings.

2 minutes ago, ezbass said:

And today is...

Ahhhh.... I had literally no idea what date it was

16 minutes ago, Bean9seventy said:

jagger is licking the guitar with his palm & thumb & plucking the strings with his index fingers in what today's teachers like Sotts Bass Lessons call the "see saw" motion,, not perfect, not shakatak or surface noise,  yet its something, its early,

btw Performance is one of "thee" classic movies, filled with micro details throughout , could this small jagger jam be another ? ,, we say yes ,, 

  lol there are no videos because no one was making them ; D ,,, the reason why is because there was not yet a market for slap until 1980ish ,, thus i thank you for pointing that out , its key to some of the reasons why i launched this particular blog , thank you

To me, it looks more like Jagger is using more of a Blues guitar technique than legit slap technique.

It's not that there wasn't a market for slap until the '80s, it's more that there wasn't really a market for any instrumental instructional videos at the time.

On 30/03/2021 at 16:24, Philip said:

If you can find an Fbass they are absolutely magical.

I agree, but there's no way you're going to get one for anywhere near the OP's budget.

If you're drawn to Spector, then you're probably best holding out for one. I know someone who picked up a Euro LX 5 for £1000, so they are about. Alternatively, you can find some killer deals on Warwick Streamers. I found my Streamer LX 5 ('98 German model) for well under half your budget.

What's the Warwick/Jaco connection here, other than that photoshopped picture in the thumbnail?

On 31/03/2021 at 03:23, Bean9seventy said:

yet the above video of larry "explaining" how to slap is from 1980 ,,, in fact there are no videos of any funk "bass lessons" before that date of 1980 ,, some 20 years after larry 1st did it

 

Of course there won't be many (if any) video lessons around earlier than that, because no one was making them. DCI and Star Licks didn't start making instructional videos until '82 and '83, and even a show like the BBCs Rockschool wasn't on until '83.

Incidentally, that Larry Graham video was taken from the Star Licks Right Hand Bass Technique video which came out in '92, not 1980.

Back on topic, that video of Jagger is clearly not playing slap or from '68.