Doddy

4 minutes ago, ubit said:

You guys are talking as if swing is some amazing hard to capture technique. I know drummers up here who play in ceilidh bands that can swing expertly.

I never said that it was a hard to capture technique. What I'm saying is that not every player can cop the right feel, and so wouldn't be right for the Stones gig.  You said that it's not a hard gig to dep, I think that it is because it goes way beyond just playing the parts.  

Neil Peart wouldn't fit in with The Rolling Stones in the same way that Jeff Hamilton wouldn't fit in with Rush.

2 minutes ago, ubit said:

Are you having a laugh? Is he having a laugh? Neil Peart would struggle with the feel of the songs?

I'm not joking. I like what Peart did in Rush, but he didn't have that loose, slightly swung feel that would fit in the Stones. He was a lot straighter. Just listen to his playing with the Buddy Rich band- it was really stiff, and not swinging.

7 minutes ago, ubit said:

No offence to Charlie but it's not exactly that hard to dep. for him. Neil Peart once said he was going to have to take it easier as he was getting older and it was harder to faithfully reproduce his drum parts live. He said it's not like I'm Charlie Watts playing with The Stones. I do not think that was meant to sound cruel but you get the gist.

Is it not a hard gig to dep? It's not just about playing the parts. They need someone who can not only play the parts but also cop the right feel, who can perform at a high level in front of thousands of people every night, and can handle the pressures of touring at that level. That's why they've chosen one of the best in the business.

No offence to Neil Peart, but I think he'd have struggled on the Stones gig.

1 hour ago, SumOne said:

Yeah that's all good, but it needs a separate DI box at the end - which is kind of what I'm concluding, that ideally I want separate footswitchable preamp/eq/od/effects/compressor pedals that I can turn on/off individually and use in different combinations, and a separate utility type DI that is always on at the end chain as it isn't any type of tone enhancer and works well with any combination being before it. 

That's pretty much what I do as standard. It's rare that I'll use the DI in a preamp pedal, unless it's the only pedal I'm using. Like I posted earlier, I like my preamp first in the chain and the DI last. You could always use the DI from your amp, (unless you're ampless in which case I'd always recommend carrying a decent DI box anyway).

20 hours ago, SumOne said:

 

One example is I want Fuzz and Chorus un-affected by the VT preamp because it muffles the Fuzz a bit- but with the VT Deluxe it's impossible to have a preset with a true clean/unaffected tone (it can sound very close to a clean tone but then when you put the fuzz signal through it you realise it is always colouring it), you can bypass the VT presets and still use it as a DI but that means it's FX loop is also bypassed so to get this Fuzz>Chorus>DI combination with no VT preamp colour the Fuzz and Chorus can't go in the VT FX loop and they can't go after the VT (as it's also the DI), so they need to be before the VT and the VT presets need to be bypassed:  Fuzz>Chorus> VT Preamp & DI ....but that means it's  not possible to use that Chorus after the VT preamp tones which is something I also want to be able to do. 

What if you put the VT in a loop of of something like a Boss LS2, then just put the fuzz and chorus in line (not through the VT effects loop), then put a seperate DI box at the end? That way, you could use the LS2 (or whatever bypass loop pedal you want) to bring the VT in and out of the signal chain as required, so you can still have it first in the chain and bypass it when you use the fuzz, and turn it on for when you use the chorus.

As an example:

 LS2(VT in loop A)>Fuzz>Chorus>DI 

I change them when they don't do what I want anymore. I've got a Precision with 15+ year old LaBella flats, and that sounds proper old school. My F Bass has had a set of LaBella Super Steps on for a few months, and they are still sounding pretty bright. On the other hand, I've got another Precision that has had Ernie Balls on for 3 gigs, and is already sounding a bit deader than I like.  I don't particularly enjoy restringing, but I'd rather do it regularly than use those horrible coated strings.

You're obviously trying to justify keeping all 4, so keep them. Otherwise, you just need to be honest with yourself about which is your least favourite, then bite the bullet and advertise it for sale.

If the Limelight is the best sounding, what makes the Fender more versatile?  But if the Fender is the most versatile, why is the 5 your go to for gigs? 

The main non bass gear that I look at, and want, is drum stuff, but I've already got quite a lot (4 kits, 20 something snares, bags of cymbals), so don't really need any more.

Other than that, I mainly just want pedals and accessories now.

1 hour ago, SumOne said:

The issue I had with all of them if using at the end of the signal chain as a preamp was how they played with other pedals 

That's kind of my issue with most preamp pedals too. As most of them seem to have a DI out, it makes sense to have them at the end of your signal chain,but I like having my preamp/tone shaping at the start of the chain. So unless the pedal has an effects loop, I still generally use a seperate DI at the end.

13 minutes ago, stewblack said:

Now I'm making the move to an almost ampless set up in one of my bands, I have discovered a whole new avenue down which to fling my money.

 

Preamp.

 

Between bass and PA. 

 

So come on baby light my gas. 

 

Don't break my heart by telling me I don't need one, nor by reminding me I have several options already, just tell me what you use and why it's better than everyone else's.

For a passive bass, my favourite preamp is still the Sadowsky.

For an active bass with a decent preamp, I'd rather just use a quality DI box.

3 hours ago, Mada Music said:

Wrong, his studio band is his live band too. The drummer is a close friend of mine, and they are all Notts chaps. 

I'm surprised at that because, if I'm not mistaken, his last album was mostly Nashville guys including Dave Roe on bass, and the excellent Fred Eltringham on drums.

21 hours ago, lowdown said:

My oldest lad informs me that 'Tom Robertson' has played Bass in Jake Bugg's band for about six years, so there's a good chance it might be him.

15 hours ago, Mada Music said:

Jack Atherton from Nottingham is his drummer. 

I would take a guess that the members of his touring band don't go anywhere near the studio when he's recording.

7 hours ago, SumOne said:

Plenty don't even have output volume controls, I'd be much more keen on getting things like the Maxon AF-9,  Pigtronix Envelope Phaser (v2), Emma Discombobulator, 3 Leaf Proton, DOD FX 25 (or, as mentioned in this thread there's the 'B' version which gets a clean blend- but no output volume control and it's below unity?!), or I'd perhaps have kept things I've had like the Fwonkbeta, EBS BassIQ Blue Label etc. if they had clean/FX controls or a mix and output volume control.

I've got a few of the pedals you mention. The Emma is my main filter and I can't say that I've missed a volume control. I've never noticed any particular volume change with it. The DOD FX25 has some volume drop but it sounds great so I'll deal with it. The FX25B does have a clean blend, but I think the older one sounds better. The Pigtronix Envelope Phaser is really cool, and you can get some pretty unique sounds from it- I just don't use it too much because it's huge.

If volume control is important, you can always put them in a loop of an LS2 or something. Personally, volume and mix controls don't bother me too much.

There are some great videos of Tim Lefebvre using the Pigtronix Mothership 2, and it sounds great. I bought one based on how he uses it.

With those pedals,I'd go...

AB>Tuner>Comp>Octave>Chorus>Vibrato>Reverb>Gate

I'd put the AB first so that you could run 2 instruments in to the tuner. The compressor could go at the end of the chain, depending on how you want to use it.

Are we talking about classic pedals that have been a big influence in the bass world, or are we talking about personal favourites?  Because half the pedals listed on here wouldn't be classed as classic or iconic yet.

46 minutes ago, Stub Mandrel said:

No you're all wrong.

The drums play 4:4 but the guitar/bass don't.

It only took a quick Google to find this quote by John Paul Jones in an old issue of Guitar World

"This riff is rather tricky-sounding, as it's built from a repeated phrase that is four-and-a-half beats long. Each time the phrase is repeated it's displaced by half a beat. Notice how the E note, which falls neatly on beat one the first time the phrase is played, falls on the second eighth-note of beat one the second time around, on beat two the third time, and on the second eighth-note of beat two the fourth time. This technique of repeating an odd-length phrase in an even time signature such as 4/4 is known as hemiola and is a very effective compositional tool."

On 05/07/2021 at 22:24, Dad3353 said:

Hmm...

 

That's pretty badly written. I don't hear any 64th notes in Black Dog.

I'll be honest, I've never heard that song as having bars of 2 and 5. I hear and count it as being in 4 with the vocal breaks being more rubato.

7 minutes ago, dave_bass5 said:

Well I said ‘some’, not all, but you have proven my point. So what if you got paid for your first gig, you also have done free gigs, and it seems they were done to help get more work. So not even you have always been paid.

Point made. 

To be fair though, you said it was BS that people earn from day one, which is clearly not the case. Yes, I did a couple of freebies when I was 18 but I was still earning from all my other gigs. I also realised very quickly that playing for nothing gets you a reputation as someone who will play for nothing. 

30 minutes ago, dave_bass5 said:

Some people make out every gig they have every played, from day one, has been an earner. Thats just BS IMO, we all started somewhere.

How is that BS?  My first gig was subbing for my 1st teacher, and I was paid. I got offered more gigs by them, which were all paid. I then started to get recommended for other paid work, and so on.....

I can probably count the number of free gigs I've done in the last 23 on both hands. I stopped doing them after I did a couple of one night theatre shows for nothing with the promise of more work,  which just resulted in more offers for freebies. Since then, I've always asked for, at the very least, my expenses covered.  

52 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

So everyone playing at Glasto considers their music to be without value? Really?

The Glastonbury thing is interesting. They may pay out little to nothing for a lot of acts, but I would hazard a guess that most (if not all) of the sidemen musicians are still getting paid their regular fees.

I often play for free and purely for the enjoyment of playing, but there is never an audience there. If I'm on stage, I'm getting paid something.

1 hour ago, Al Krow said:

Of course it can be a proper job but you've got to be bloody good to make a career out it.

I'd be pretty confident in saying that, as well as being bloody good, the people who are making a career out of it generally work a damn sight harder than lots of people who have a 'proper' jobs. Unfortunately, a lot of people don't know how much work goes in to sustaining a career in the entertainment industry. It's still viewed as a hobby, and that's not helped by the bands who happily undercut others and play for a few beers and a night out.

3 minutes ago, Happy Jack said:

Agreed, and there's a reason for that.

 

A lot of those reasons are mentioned in this thread.

28 minutes ago, Happy Jack said:

Putting it really bluntly, if you want to be paid then get a real job.

And this is ultimately the problem. Being a musician isn't seen as a real job by a lot of people. Even by other musicians apparently. 

OC2, Mutron III, Green Russian Big Muff.

I'd say that these 3 (and their copies) are some of the most used and highly regarded effects for bass.