noisedude

[quote name='BigBeefChief' post='241872' date='Jul 17 2008, 04:29 PM']You're missing the point.

I agree - play lots and buy the best you can afford. If you don't think the MIA is worth it, don't buy it. I agree 100%.

This is a retarded attitude:

[b]"The MIA is for snobs that have to have Made in the USA on the headstock"[/b]


Utter sh*t. It's embarrassing.


Y'get me? (its not rocket surgery).[/quote]
Well ... in a wider sense I still think that obsession over the country your equipment was made in borders on the friendly face of xenophobia. But in relation to Fender, there's absolutely no doubt at all that Fender trade off the MIA status of their instruments as frequently as possible. If not, why would the Highway One series exist? And why did they risk lawsuits with (and eventually have to pull) the California Series of basically Mexican instruments [i]just[/i] to have people believe they owned an 'MIA' for cheap?

Of course not everyone American Fender owner is a snob. But it is also true that 'MIA' has become a brand that people aspire to out of proportion to quality, in the same way that Gibson can complacently turn out utter tat from its American facility and people will continue to lap it up simply because it's a "real American Gibson".

Another qualifier is that there are few American-made instruments that can be bought as cheaply as American Fenders, and you can decide for yourself whether that means they're rubbish or that everyone else is ripping customers off, or neither.

[quote name='BigBeefChief' post='241820' date='Jul 17 2008, 03:31 PM']What a load of sh*t.


I own a MIA Jazz. It cost me about £650. About £250 more than a MIM.

When I A/B'd a Mex and a US, the US won hands down in every catorgory. You won't find a bassist who cares less about tone than me (or can hear the difference), but even my girlfriend who knows nothing (about anything) could pick the US jazz when blindfolded every time.

I've never played a Mex Jazz that sounds as good. There may be some out there, but I think you improve your chances of getting a quality instrument in you buy the US. To suggest I bought a US just because of a sticker on the headstock is ridiculous.

The US also has the S1 Switching that I really rate.

Thankfully, £250 isn't considerable enough to me to warrant settling for a lesser instrument.


I'm far from a brand snob. I play a second hand Peavey Firebass head, a non-brand cab and a Carlsbro Combo. I really couldn't give a sh*t what it says on the headstock (as long as its not Warwick).

It worries me that someone with such a retarded attitude is allowed to teach music????[/quote]
Ease up a little there, sunshine. It's not a "retarded attitude" because the debate over whether American Fenders are worth the cost compared to MIMs and Squiers is very real, and lots of people will decide that the extra money is, in fact, not worth it to them. There is, after all, more 'handmade' construction on a Yamaha Pacifica than any American Standard Fender.

As for teaching, well, a teacher is just another player. I wouldn't rate his opinion higher because he teaches any more than I would yours because you take pictures of yourself going topless and wearing a beret. If his advice to his students is, as it seems to be, to buy the best they can for their money by "trying a bunch and choosing the best one", then he really couldn't be doing any better by them, could he?

As has been said, everyone's skint at the moment so it is very much a buyer's market out there in the 2nd-hand world!

Peted- I used to work in IT too and, whilst I agree with you on iPods and don't have one for that reason, there is no other fully conceived platform which includes quality, stylish and well-designed hardware and a commercially-supported (i.e. not Unix/Linux, and if you've ever contacted Canonical for help you'll know what I mean), safe, quick and unintrusive operating system that I can buy for the price of a Macbook or iMac.

After using MS since DOS 6 I'm now a complete convert, I'm afraid to say.

The bass debate is excellent too chaps, I wonder whether it would be possible to get an idea of how much the price of an American Fender is made up of the wages, H&S/COSH rules, pensions, paid breaks, factory/facilities management and upkeep and so on. Not because I want to make a political point about Chinese labour or anything, but with a like-for-like construction such as a J-Bass it would be interesting to see how much more money was actually spent on woods and hardware. I suspect it might not be all that much more than in the Chinese one.

Aaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrrrggggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhh

Good job you're down south really.

[quote name='JohnnyLightyear' post='240222' date='Jul 15 2008, 05:22 PM']"reluctant feeler"! Ha ha!

I have one of these amps and its brilliant if you want a lively, punchy tone plus compression thrown in, all in a compact package.

Have a free bump on me![/quote]
"Reluctant feeler" ..... it's like a reformed sex pest, I guess, if you can compare that sort of thing to selling bass amps.

They are great amps but my friend, like most people at the moment it seems, is potless (as we say round here). Stoney broke, guv'nor (as they say in London, maybe).

Cheers for the bump!!

This is a reluctant feeler - A friend of mine has hit upon hard times and so a Trace Elliot 715X 1x15" 500W combo is available if anyone here wants it. It's one of the new ones and in "brilliant" condition in their words. I've played a couple of these combos at gigs and they sound immense to me and aren't exactly heavy by Trace standards, but I'm just not in a position to splash out for it, which I'm more than a bit gutted about.

Here's how it would work: The sale would go through me, COLLECTION FROM MY HOME IN LEEDS OR MEET/DELIVER WITHIN A REASONABLE DISTANCE, because I've traded with people here before and as I have a reputation to preserve it's safer!! (i.e. I don't have to go out on a limb on their word and neither do you) If you're interested I will get proper photos but I won't bother if there's just no-one after this at the moment. THE ASKING PRICE IS [b]£450[/b] which seems like an excellent price to me for something so new and in good nick - they're £699-799 from most places like DV, Coda etc.



Here is all the blurb from Trace:

[i]The Trace Elliot 715X 500W Bass combo offers four footswitchable features: Pre Shape (for that classic Trace Elliot sound), 7 Band classic Trace Elliot Graphic Equalizer, soft-knee Compressor with self-adjusting, program dependant, adaptive attack and release times, and output Mute (mutes all outputs except Tuner Out).

Other features of the Trace Elliot 715X include a series effects loop, electronically balanced XLR DI output selectable pre/post preamp and a efficient output stage with anti-clip circuitry.

Trace Elliot 715X main features include:

* Preshape circuit
* 7-band classic Graphic Equalizer
* Compressor with self-adjusting program dependant Attack/Release times
* Series effects loop
* Output Mute switch, active on all outputs except Tuner Out
* Electronically balanced XLR DI outputs for Pre and Post Preamp
* Additionnal speaker output (8 Ohms minimum load)
* MOSFET technology 500 Watts (4 Ohms) output stage (with additionnal speaker cabinet)
* 15” (382mm) special design Celestion speaker
* High frequency horn with variable attenuation
* Footswitch allowing control of Preshape, Graphic EQ, Compressor and Output Mute
* Cabinet tuned, with bottom unobstructed slot, to 42Hz
* Lightweight poplar plywood construction
* Original classy black ‘pimple’ covered
* Metal handles and protective corners
* Dimensions (HxWxD): 24.5'' (622mm) x 24.2'' (615mm) x 13.2'' (335mm)
* Weight: 79.2lbs (36kg)
[/i]

Send him a PM if you already haven't (just cos you're new so might not know how it works).

Hell of a lot of bass for three hundred squid. It'll be a scream to play too if, like me, you're into these sorts of necks!

[quote name='budget bassist' post='238083' date='Jul 12 2008, 05:27 PM']I actually got a pretty decent sound out of it that way, but that's probably down to my MM preamp, it always sounded rubbish with my old passive basses.[/quote]
Yeah it'll definitely be less bad with a higher output bass ... although with the impedance mismatch and terribly cheap preamp it's never going to be great compared to even a £40 USB audio interface!!

Unless you're recording 'garage rock' of course - I recently had someone bring me an entire album recorded on the built-in mic on a Macbook. He was aiming to sound like early Pavement and, apart from the songs being less good and him not being a stoner, it sort of did.

Yeah obviously it'll sound a bit rubbish but for getting ideas down that will work. Audacity is a good editor/basic sequencer and for something very special go to Reaper.fm and download multi-track awesomeness.

[quote name='Jesus' post='238021' date='Jul 12 2008, 04:08 PM']noisedude, I havn't seen her recently but to be fair, i havnt texted or called so she probably thinks i've lost interest.
We're about more than just her tho, i think you'll find all our women are equally as common, fun (read that as you wish), and attractive. Plus we stake claim to Britains oldest recorded town.

Bremen, i really hope it doesnt cause any offence to the guys and gals on here.[/quote]
How do you go about recording a town? It must be a particularly sensitive microphone I imagine.

Common, fun and attractive? Apart from the fun and attractive bits it sounds a lot like Leeds lasses!!

Full marks for both the obtaining of an obscure Aria bass and the insertion of a Big Lebowski reference into this thread.

Welcome, Jesus from Essex. I don't know much about Essex except Denise Van Outen. Is she a friend of yours?

It's the distributor, Headstock, who discuss with Ibanez which models come into the UK. Unfortunately Headstock recently re-designed their site and removed their own catalogues from it so you can't easily get a definitive list of what's in the country and what's not.

There's always importing from the States you can consider though if there's something you really want!

[quote name='bass_ferret' post='236845' date='Jul 10 2008, 08:16 PM']I have not tried that many warwicks to be able to say but I did have two Ibanez basses of the same vintage, one thru neck and one bolt on. They sounded different cos of pups and actives but I would not say the thru neck had more sustain. I guess it depends on the quality of the bolt on. Lots of bolt on necks are not bolted on at all, just woodscrews through the body and into the neck. My GB's are bolt on, with threaded inserts in the neck into which bolts bolt, as it were.

There is no doubt that thru necks are more comfy to play up the dusty end but I dont spend much time up there.[/quote]
Yeah most don't have any sort of threads in the neck, but it sounds like a good idea. And I mentioned 70s Fenders because those terrible neck pockets weren't just a problem because they looked messy, they weren't good for stability or sound either (unless, of course, you like the sound they make, which plenty of people do!). The fact remains that a unified system such as a carefully made thru-neck is going to allow for more efficient energy transfer (i.e. guitar rings for longer as less energy lost in transferring between materials or vibrating less resonant materials, i.e. more sustain) than two different sections pressed against one another over a couple of inches of surface area. Subjectively this may or may not be the difference between a percussive clank and a longer, piano-like decay. But if the neck pocket of the bolt-on is deep and the surfaces are level and tightly fitted, it could well resonate for longer than a 7-piece neck full of cheap glue along its length and, as you say, defy expectations.

As an aside, and because the science is fascinating to me, here's a brilliant image of the standing waves on the soundboard of a classical guitar. You can see exactly which bits of wood are vibrating and which are not ... and the implications that would have for bracing/construction. Note the activity at the neck/body join:


We now return you to Nick Cave and the P-Bass Seeds, or whatever the thread started as!

[quote name='bass_ferret' post='236814' date='Jul 10 2008, 07:34 PM']As far as sound goes, yes. Me and most of bass chat. You dont believe this is the first time this has come up do you? Its ironic that the same claims that used to be made for thru necks ae now being made for single cuts.[/quote]
So it doesn't matter how it's put together as long as it's done well?

A P-bass made from ash will sound the same as a Soundgear made from ash as long as they have the same hardware and pickups? Or does the wood or hardware not matter either?

I'm interested to know what your subjective opinion is. Because I'm not claiming they're night and day but the discussion was about whether having different basses was a legitimate choice or GAS dressed up as hearing.

You're saying that, for example, a Thumb bolt-on and a Thumb thru-neck with exactly the same specs otherwise will sound, in terms of timbre and dynamic response, exactly the same?

[quote name='dave_bass5' post='236797' date='Jul 10 2008, 07:18 PM']Sorry, i didnt mean different versions of the same bass, just different basses, one being a thru-neck.
I dont think ill ever get to hear a thru and bolt on version of the same bass to compare.[/quote]
No I meant why would any two different basses sound different? Sorry if that seems a trick question but what I was getting at was that the neck construction/attachment is a big factor in how it will behave, along with the other obvious answers such as wood, finish, pickups, bridge/stringing method and so on.

EDIT - I think you'll find plenty of people who prefer, for example, a Thumb BO or NT for a reason other than the price. Honestly.

[quote name='bass_ferret' post='236778' date='Jul 10 2008, 06:55 PM']Dont believe the adverts. I asked Bernie about the difference between bolt on and through necks when I was having my Spitfires made. He said the only difference was the price![/quote]
I ran a guitar shop in a previously life, I don't pay attentiont to adverts.

I'm a physics/music technology teacher and have done a little bit of reading. There's a fantastic study/course going on at Cardiff university into resonant responses of different stringed instruments which produces fascinating (!) results.

I'm not being funny but you surely don't believe there is no difference between different construction types do you?

As I say, Robert Godin's the only high profile guitar designer I know of who thinks bolt-ons provide more sustain than glued/set necks because he says there's more wood on wood. If you look at his guitars, the fingerboard is much lower into the body with the neck surrounded on three sides. Of course, the thru-neck brings in a factor of how much glue there is in between the strips of wood. If it's got a thick layer of glue at four places across the neck and then loaded down with lacquer then it's unlikely to behave the same way as a one-piece unfinished alternative.

[quote name='dave_bass5' post='236790' date='Jul 10 2008, 07:10 PM']Well ill take your word for it. I've played both types and have not noticed much of a tonal difference other than the fact that they have been different basses and so would sound different anyway.[/quote]
Why would they sound different?

[quote name='BigBeefChief' post='236692' date='Jul 10 2008, 05:04 PM']I hate to sh*t on anyones chips, but its all very self indulgent.

(I don't think there's anything wrong with self indulgence though - so I'm not having a dig).

Only YOU really care about the subtleties of bass tone. The audience/listener couldn't really give a sh*t.

People describe their tone like it's a fine wine, whereas the audience is happy to drink jam jars full of Buckfast.


I suppose if buying expensive gear for the sake of it makes you happy and you imagine you hear a difference, then go for it. We've all done it. It sometimes concerns me that some younger forum members seem hung up on having the latest/most expensive gear (probably better than their ability requires).

But then I usually go and have a pot noodle and a w*** and the world is all OK again.[/quote]
True but the difference between good and great music is often built on such subtleties. In fact, the only time it's not is when your songs absolutely RULE. Then you can play like a chump and mix it like casserole and it won't matter. See Definitely Maybe for details.

The rest of us are trying to make the best of what we've got and if a quality guitar or amp makes someone feel that bit more confident in their sound, why would you knock it?

The theory I always go back to is that Billie Joe Armstrong goes into shops and tries out some of the world's most expensive guitars. I understand your theory, but if you live by it then you'd be telling him to "just buy an Epiphone, you're playing's not good enough to worry about gear anyway". Or to Eric Clapton, "never mind Lace vs Noiseless pickups, it's not like your playing is that hot, just play a Squier as well as you can".

Surely part of getting "your tone" is making your cruddy playing, with all its foibles, the best it can be for your purposes?

[quote name='silverfoxnik' post='234691' date='Jul 8 2008, 07:17 AM']Good thread!

The answer for me is yes, but there's more than one 'ideal tone' which makes it kind of more fun..

If I was in a band playing original music then I'd probably be searching for one sound but playing a wide variety of covers means that I need to be able to recreate lots of different tones. From a 60's Motown thump playing 'Valerie' through to a clanky rock sound when doing stuff like the Killers..

I doubt I get anywhere achieving all of them but it's great fun trying and keeps me interested. [/quote]
This is what we're discussing in the GAS/Bad Seeds/Pro players thread. A lot of guys need a whole bunch of sounds as ideal as possible and the thrill of the chase has really caught my interest in the last year or two.

I need a really good amp that delivers power across the range that allows my sound to come from my guitars and playing. Not necessarily ultra-clean (although that's ok), just not with a pronounced scoop. My Laney sounds great at room volume but at high volume (6/7 plugged into two cabs) it seems to become lots of boom and string noise but quite weak sounding on the D and G strings. I might have that wrong but I gigged with a Trace 4x10 combo last month that was set totally flat and it sounded so full (but still articulate) across the range.

Thoughts?

[quote name='dave_bass5' post='236558' date='Jul 10 2008, 02:21 PM']please explain how a bolt on differers from a thru-neck to make a difference in tone or are you just talking about feel?
I can understand someone wanting a certain sound but ive not heard a thru or bolt on being needed for anything before. (im really asking, not trying to argue)
I only use a P bass and it sounds fine.
We do a lot of 60's stuff though so it fits in but even if we didnt it wouldn't matter too much. P's have bene used throughout time itself and it fits most styles of music.
I also have a 55-01 and jazz but don't use them[/quote]
Well unless it's a really well designed bolt-on joint with loads of wood-on-wood contact (such as the ones Robert Godin swears by) then a bolt-on type will tend to have less sustain and so be a more percussive sound than a typical thru-neck. A thru-neck design lends itself to a wider dynamic range for the same reasons, with the whole instrument vibrating as one you have the opportunity to be more responsive to lighter touch than in a 70s Fender where half the energy is lost through makeshift shims under the neck.

Another difference is the scale length of the neck. In bass there isn't as much upper harmonic content than in distorted guitar but still a shorter Gibson neck will tend to a fatter sound with less detail than a 35", simply because of the difference in length of string but enhanced by the use of thicker/heavier strings to keep the tension playable on the shorter neck.

That's all theory and physics and if you have a sound that works in all settings then great. I was just suggesting that the modern odd-job player wants to be able to get a 'Flea sound' and then a 'dub sound' and then a 'metal sound' and then a 'funky sound' and that you may need different types of instrument for that. And if you look at most session players, they will have a selection of instruments (many have a mix of trad and modern non-Fender/Ricky/Gibbo stuff) for getting the different tones.

The sound difference between my Ibanez and my G&L is huge even through a relatively cheap amp. They're both very flexible but the Ibanez sounds rubbish played with a pick, the G&L sounds less 'sweet' above the 12th fret, the Ibanez has to have extra low end dialled in, the G&L needs a bit of compression to tame its attack and so on.

If you are having pain in your WRIST, get it looked at as a matter of urgency.

I found out the other day that an innocent sprain is actually a rupture that will probably end my musical career one way or another. Obviously most pain will be due to bad mechanics of positioning etc but your GP will check out your range of motion and any obvious weaknesses in grip or pressing forces and decide whether you need referring on.

It's a heck of a lot easier to have a fixed setup with 'your sound' when you play in one band and in 'your style'.

You wouldn't last very long in a function/covers band if you only had a clanky P-bass sound and a stack the size of the stage in most small venues.

The reason we have more gear is that whilst we have our preferences, we all find ourselves playing different styles and in different settings.

I only have a couple of basses but in those two I cover thru-neck, bolt on, 4-string, 5-string, EMG/active sounds, traditional passive magnetic sounds etc etc etc. My shoddy playing comes through on both but the tones are quite different.

Of course, once you've got a little collection that covers most bases (and basses, snarf), anything more is just inexcusable GAS.

Tom just bought a couple of mics off me, top bloke, fantastic communication, sounds like his finances are as chaotic as mine behind the scenes but paid exactly as promised and even helped me out when it turned out the Post Office charge a king's ransom for an insured and tracked delivery.

Marvellous stuff - thanks Tom!

Nik

Sexy.