jimmyb625

5 minutes ago, Dad3353 said:

 

But... but... but... Isn't that how Democracy is supposed to work..? Folk vote for what they want, or that they believe in, and the Majority get what they voted for..? 

Hmmm

26 minutes ago, Woodinblack said:

 

I have done a few gigs where I think the audience would have been happier with the DJ, but this was one of the first where i really would have been happier with the DJ too!

 

To be fair, the DJs were very helpful and friendly!

We had one, a birthday party at the start of the year. Birthday bloke is a really big fan and loved it, but 60% or so of the rest weren't really interested and spent the time chatting loudly, whilst standing in front of us.

Still, free beer and close enough to walk home from!

3 hours ago, SteveXFR said:

 

Still seems a lot less stress than most of us have to deal with.

Not sure I agree with your statement. Sure, he won't have to deal with thinking about paying the mortgage, but he has an amount of public scrutiny applied to his life that I certainly wouldn't be comfortable with.

5 hours ago, Jack said:

I have to preface this story by saying that everywhere we play gets a set of posters a week or so before the gig as well as phone call 24-48 hours before to double check and confirm everything.

 

I get there first, see a bartender, "Hi I'm Jack I'm with the band, where's the stage? What door's best? etc etc" So I start loading in. Guitarist joins me, as does singer and drummer, everything is now in the bar. The first thing to go up is our backdrop so we put that up and then start setting up everything else. After clocking the backdrop said bartender nervously comes across and asks if that's our band name, we say it is. She says that's not the name of the band that's booked tonight. Blank looks all round, lots of fervently checking diaries, etc. Eventually we find the facebook messenger between our singer and the bar manager, which goes something like this.

That's it. No response from the bar. He's made us drive all the way down there after work to a venue that never bloody confirmed in the first place. Idiot.

 

Does that count as a bad gig? It wasn't technically a gig, so maybe it's not the worst gig I've ever played. It's certainly the worst attempted gig I've ever played. We couldn't even demand any kind of payment (from the bar at least) as it's clearly our singer's mistake. I wonder why the bar didn't say something when they got the posters or the phone call, maybe whomever dealt with those wasn't the one booking bands.

 

Oh well, here's hoping tonight is better.

That's awful, but what's even more awful is that I actually laughed.

I'm sorry, I'm a terrible person. Hopefully it will be something you can laugh about in the future.

4 hours ago, Bluewine said:

 

 

Maybe, The Kemper is complicated and they're not cheap. $1,700.00

 

Blue

Can you try out his first, to see if you like it? Not at a gig, as that might be a little tricky though!! 

2 hours ago, Muzz said:

This ^ - see my 'Fun Lovin Criminals at Manchester Cathedral' post earlier...

The band I tech for supported Turin Breaks there. According to one of the engineers who provided the main rig, there's about 2 seconds of natural reverb decay in there!

I was just glad we didn't try to run additional stage monitors for our bit, but even then I've never run a mix so dry.

43 minutes ago, FDC484950 said:

I first encountered the problem with a room many years ago. A local gig in a bar that was a stretched rectangle shape. So parallel walls with shiny surfaces, a pair of very short walls and a pair of long walls, with a relatively low ceiling. All surfaces were reflective with no curtains etc. Try as I might I couldn’t hear a thing on that gig - bass, PA, singer, drums - all a massive mush, and we’d limited the volume especially as in problem rooms the louder you go, the worse it gets. These kind of spaces just don’t work for live music unless there is something to absorb all the bouncing sound waves and the frequencies of standing waves are identified.

Over my gigging career of just over 20 years probably < 10% of the sound engineers I encountered had any clue what they were doing. Even in some pretty decent professional venues with expensive PA systems. As has been said, soundchecks were almost always bottom up instead of top down. This, and dealing with musicians and promoters were the main reasons I gave up playing live. I don’t miss it one bit.

I don't envy the challenge for that room one bit. I imagine you'd play a note, wait for a second and then hear it coming back to you. 

36 minutes ago, Chienmortbb said:

I think rooms are a big issue, however I have seen many shows at the Pavilion Bournemouth and the room is really not the problem. It may be that the desk was under the rather low circle, that may have altered the sound at the desk and many shows have the desk at the front of the Circle. However surely the mixist should have wandered the room while the Lighting Control Person protected the desk from the audience of mainly 70-80 year olds?

 

Maybe the majority of these sound guys learnt their "craft" with Drum and Bass?

They should definitely poke their heads out to listen to what is going on.

The problem is, just as with musicians, there are many different levels of competency. I'm not involved in the pro sound industry, but from working with the folks who are, it's easy to see that training and education in the subject area is often lacking. I'm not saying that is the be-all and end-all to make a good engineer, but having an understanding of the underlying physics of sound is never a hindrance imho.

17 hours ago, Simon C said:

-

We use the ME-1s in Church. I’ve never used any others so don’t have anything to compare against. I’m using ZS10 IEMs (also the only ones I’ve ever used). I can hear myself and others well. You can pan each band member to give better sound separation. I find the panning helpful as it gives more clarity, which I suspect allows me to run at lower overall volume.

 

 So a thumbs-up from me.

5 hours ago, Gunsfreddy2003 said:

I’ve been using the ME-1 for around 5 years now and can’t praise it highly enough. Amazing bit of kit that makes live gigs so much better. I have to admit that I hate doing gigs now where I can’t use it and IEM’s!

Do you use your in-ears plugged directly into the ME-1, or do you out the output through a wireless transmitter? I'm really interested in trying one out, but although I'm not much of a mover on stage, I do in occassion have a bit of a wander (mainly if I'm getting bored 🤣)

2 hours ago, Velarian said:

I wonder if these issues are caused by the mixing console being optimally positioned in both distance from the stage and the height so that it sounds spot on there, but as soon as you move off-axis the effect of the crowd and room change the balance of frequencies? I'm reminded of a situation in a small room where just a couple of feet lower that than the optimal position produced a significant uplift in low-mid/bass frequencies. You would think that the FOH team would have someone checking different positions in the audience to provide feedback to the main desk, although I guess that might be easier said than done in a densely packed venue.

1 hour ago, casapete said:

Exactly this from my experience. 

 

My band does mainly theatres, and the mixing console location is often not fully optimized for getting the best overall sound.

Many times it will be under the first tier of seating right at the back of the room which often gives a false impression of the

bass sound. Then in other places it can be not even central or at the top of a tiered seating arrangement. Of course there 

are usually reasons for this, mainly to do with audience sight lines not being affected etc, but it does make it hard to get 

a decent sound throughout the room. Our sound tech listens to the band in all areas of seating during soundcheck, but

inevitably there will be anomalies which don't show up until the customers are seated. Wherever possible we patch in 

to the theatre's system for the upper tiers which can help, especially if it's a 'flown' arrangement.

There are some really relevant points in these posts.

You can set up a system to sound really great, but once you fill the venue with big bags of warm water (we sometimes call them the audience) the mix is going to change, most notably with attenuation of the higher frequencies. 

Where you're situated in the room is also going to affect the sound you hear. Higher frequencies are more directional, so the further off-axis you go from the source, the more losses you get. Line-array systems tend (if they're well designed and set up) to be a lot better than traditional point-source systems, however the systems aren't always deployed correctly and some systems which are named as line arrays aren't really.

Subwoofer placement can also have an effect, which us, as bass players, will probably have experience of. There's a really interesting Sound on Sound article which discusses this and argues against the commonly seen setup of subwoofers and mid-range/tweeters located together (at smaller venues typically with spacer poles). As bass frequencies are less directional, if there are multiple sources, there can be interference, which will, depending on the location in the room, enhance some frequencies, or attenuate others.

Using an existing system in a theatre is, more often than not, a really good idea. If it's a pro-theatre, it's likely that the system will have been installed and set up by specialists, often with system manufacturer support. Additionally, the theatre technicians will have a lot of experience of working in the room, with a variety of different performances, so should be able to offer some really good advice. 

Moving around the venue whilst the band is playing is really helpful, if it's possible. With digital desks nowadays, it's a lot easier to grab a tablet and have a quick walk around. With the electronic band that I mix for, this is how I like to approach it, although it can get difficult if the venue is very busy.

Edit, here's the link to the Sound on Sound article. Definitely worth a few minutes of your time if you're interested in this sort of thing.

https://www.soundonsound.com/techniques/bass-place

I think there are a number of problems when it comes to live sound, which include:

• Quality of engineers/operators

• Familiarity with the music

• Room construction

• Subjective opinions on what "sounds right"

I cut my teeth in live sound with theatre, covering both dramatic productions and musical theatre. I also took a brilliant Open University course, called "The Technology of Music".

One of the biggest lessons I learnt, was how the room itself has a huge influence on the quality of sound you'll get from any system you use there. As an example, the local theatre where I volunteer has a large standing wave around 125Hz, which also affects the relative frequencies, so we tend to cut any mix quite a lot there. Similarly, another venue we use is a large rectangular sports hall, with a tin roof and a very reflective floor. There are curtains, covering some of the walls, but not fully. As a result of this we need to cut around 63Hz and also in the 2-400Hz range as it can get quite muddy and boomy. It can be problematic with acoustic drums and bass amps in this hall, purely because of the acoustic properties of the room.

We try to set up each system to be as "flat" as possible and we'll spend quite a bit of time running reference sine waves and test tones as we eq the various system components (much to the dismay of other people trying to work in the area). Keeping this as flat as possible gives us the opportunity to set the channel eq's for the instruments in a way that isn't fighting with the room.

For the musical theatre stuff, we'll commonly be mixing a band containing brass, woodwind, percussion, keys, bass and guitar, as well as the cast of singers and chorus. The orchestra tend to be located either at the rear of the stage, or in a separate room (which helps with isolation, although it makes monitoring more difficult) and we tend to group it as a stereo channel, so we can adjust the entirety, much as you would do with a backing track. With the musical theatre sound, the vocal's need to be clearly distinguishable above the music, but still balanced overall to provide the right "fit".

Audiences can also be "interesting" to say the least, when it comes to providing their opinions. We've had more than one occassion on the same performance where different audience members have come to us saying how great the sound was, whilst others would say something wasn't right. We usually ask where they sit, to see if there's a trend, but there never seems to be. We've also had more than one instance where people have queried why we used a backing track, which was an unknowing compliment and we took great delight in showing them pictures of the backstage band pit.

There does seem to be a trend nowadays of louder being perceived as "better", which I'm not sure I subscribe to. I'd much rather listen to a well mixed group at a slightly lower volume than a wall of "noise" where there's no clarity at all.

Maybe I'm just getting old.

Just now, Deedee said:

 

 

I snoozed and lost 😖. 

Ah, that's annoying! 

9 minutes ago, Reggaebass said:

I’ve spoken with him, seems a really nice guy, he’s had offers and I don’t think it will be there long 

It's a really good price, I think you're right.

53 minutes ago, Deedee said:

Mmmm my YOB too. Oh gosh! 😅😅😅

Do it! If I hadn't pulled the trigger on one last month, I'd be grabbing that one without hesitation.

Ours was ok(ish). The sound left a bit to be desired and monitoring wasn't ace (I ended up without a monitor and given that I now run amp-less, it wasn't ideal). 

A couple of other band members decided they didn't like the sound from my preamp (despite it being the 4th outing with that setup) and also decided that the bass being too loud in their monitors was a result of my not having an amp. This, combined with a bout of sciatica and some not great family stuff, led to me being a bit grumpy and needing a bit of space before we played. 

Fortunately, we kissed and made up before we played and performed well, according to those who were watching.

I'm 5'6" or thereabouts and a right lardy fatbum to boot. I play the Warwick Lee Sklar sig model and don't feel it's too unwieldy. To be honest, I've never given it much thought, so I may well obsess about it from now on.

9 hours ago, BigJHW said:

 

How you getting on with the KZ ZS10's? I read a lot of reviews on them but also read they struggle in a live environment and they're better for studio or gaming - so very mixed reviews.. I liked them due to their price, but am also leaning towards the mackie MP-360's - a LOT more expensive than the ZS10's but reviews for bass seem to be good.

I've used them for a while and have no complaints. I'm sure there are better sets out there, but I would think I'd need to pay a lot more to get a noticeable improvement. I only ever use them live, so can't comment on using them for studio stuff, but they do the job I need them to do.

I think it's more a case if you have a bad practice immediately before the gig, you make more effort during the gig.

When I've directed plays, it's often been the case that a few days before opening, we have a shocker of a rehearsal. People have a tendency to "coast" once they think they've got it cracked in terms of their performance, which can then result in it going completely haywire.

We also find, during the run of the show, that opening night is great, then it drops on the second night, as again, complacency sets in. The rest of the run then picks up again to the previous level.

There will always be things that happen which you don't expect, but as long as you carry it as a "team" 99% of the time the audience won't notice*

*I'm excluding the last song of our set on Friday night, where it was very noticable for most of our audience, apart from the lead singer/guitarist's wife! 🤣

I think a lot of the perceptions around Fender/Gibson being the best you can get, dates back to the 60's, where the quality of instruments available wasn't great on the whole. 

If you look at interviews of people like The Shadows, Pink Floyd, the Rolling Stones etc, they always talk with reverance about getting their first Fender. If you also look at what the big groups were using, so many of them were using Fender or Gibson, there was an association that they were the best.

Very local gig last night, with an outing for the 5-piece variant of the band. We were playing as a part of a town council organised weekend music festival, with various places across the town hosting events.

David Gilmour's Esquire is pretty worn, although by all accounts, that wear was already on it back in the 70's when he bought it. Maybe it's the earliest example of relicing?

3 hours ago, ossyrocks said:

 

I'm not sure. I bought a '73 Precision from ATB earlier this year, all original, decent condition, and a fabulous bass which a dearly love, for £2600. But it does look like, even just a few months on from that, that it might be £3k+ now. 

I tend to agree, they've been creeping up in price over the last few months. There are a couple on ebay/reverb, one has a non-original bridge for £2,999 and there's a clean looking one from Vintage Guitar Emporium at £3,995 (although it's cheaper if you go to their website/shop)

If it's quite an "important" or big gig/festival, I'll take a spare bass, but apart from that I'll use whatever. Nowadays, I'm not even taking one amp, never mind two.

Having said that, if I was in a smaller line-up, or reliant on specific effects/sounds, I may have a different approach.

4 hours ago, Reggaebass said:

Nice one jimmy 👍, how is it, I was offered that one but I couldn’t get there to try it 

It's good. I don't have much to compare it to, as I've never bought an old bass before. The frets are fairly worn, but still usable and there's a little bit of string buzz, but I'm guessing that's fixable.

Overall condition is good, definitely doesn't look like it's been thrashed too much.

On 24/05/2022 at 14:03, Reggaebass said:

It’s another one 👍

And it's in my grubby little hands now! 🤣

New Old Bass Day and a very early 50th Birthday present (which I still firmly believe is a typographical error).

This is a '73 model, like me, which came from the good folk of BassBros. Overall, it's in pretty good condition (unlike me) and I think the only non-original part is the volume pot, but I'm not overly fussed by that. The frets are quite worn, but I've not noticed a significant problem with it in the very short space of time I've spent with it so far. 

Worryingly, it looks as though inheritance claims have already been made, so if I'm found suffocated at some point, there may be a clue as to the culprit...