BILL POSTERS

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1330869286' post='1564031']
Kudos! Probably [b]quite a common situation that none are prepared to admit![/b]
Apart from you, obviously.
[/quote]

Can I be the first then ? I been getting away with it for years, still keep expecting somebody to point it out at a gig sometime.

[quote name='redstriper' timestamp='1330867554' post='1563978']
I don't believe in natural ability - nobody is born able to play bass.
It's like anything else, the more you do it, the better you get - simple as that.
[/quote]

You know what I mean though.

So if I practice enough I will be as good as.............Just about anybody ?

Some people have a natural feel for it though ?

How about natural inability ? Some people will never get it, no matter how much they practice.[i] can think of one or two famous people that would fit in that category, but that would be way outside the thread.[/i]

[quote name='TRBboy' timestamp='1330863351' post='1563870']
Surely if something is your profession, it means that you earn most of your income from doing it? I would say a professional bassist is one who earns the majority of their income from playing bass. Doesn't matter whether you're rich, poor, a virtuoso or crap, as long as playing is your main source of income.

Likewise, I would define a semi-professional bassist as someone who earns approximately 50% of their income from playing.

You could be the best bass player in the world, but if you earn your living from a 9-5 office job you're not a professional bass player.
[/quote]

In that case, I have been both a hard up pro quite a lot when I was younger, . lol

I spose what I was really getting at was, is an otherwise unemployed young kid gigging 3 or 4 nights a week in pubs for peanuts, but still on the dole and living at home with his parents really a Pro or not ?

[quote name='redstriper' timestamp='1330863599' post='1563872']
Being a great player has nothing to do with age or access to lessons - it's simply hours and hours of dedicated practise.

I got the groove to make you move, I'm happy.
[/quote]

Natural ability, or feel has a lot to do with it, or had when I started. You had nobody to teach you, except mybe a guitarist, who had probably taught himself anyway.

Some people took to Bass, for whatever reason, and some didnt. Its a bit like the difference between hearing a guitarist play a walking bass line, and hearing a self taught blues Bass player do it. Same notes, samr time, differnt result.

[quote name='RhysP' timestamp='1330861501' post='1563821']
I think it makes a huge difference actually.

If you grew up learning to play in 70's there wasn't the astonishing amount of tutorial material available like there is today.

You had two options:
1. The schooled approach, which was impossible if you're family had no spare cash (and also there were no electric bass teachers around then, and a hell of a lot fewer guitar teachers who would have been pretty much all classical). Schools didn't teach guitar when I was there - it was piano, violin or nothing, and that was all extra curricular.

2. The learn by ear, noodling around approach, which is what, in my experience, the majority of players my age (47) did.
You never developed a disciplined practice regime, as there was nowhere to get the lessons from (no internet, no "Guitar Techniques" type magazines).

If I was starting to play now I would probably be as good in a couple of years as I am now after 33 years of playing.
[/quote]

Spot on.
There were chord books, very often wrong though. or you could watch bands in pubs and try and work put what the Bass player was doing. working it out for yourself was really the only way, much worse if you were a crap guitarist, at least if you could play a bit you were in with a chance.

I have no real technique, but after 35 years I'm still learning to muddle through.

Just a thought, but define professional.

I once heard a certain well known muso interviewed on the radio, when asked when he turned pro he made the same comment.
Theres the pro that does it for a living obviously, theres the pro with other means of support, for example, wealthy parents or wife who support him till he grows out of it / also has a small music shop somewhere / makes half his living off ebay etc. And theres the starving pro who doesn’t make enough to live on and is also on the dole registered as an unemployed tomato picker or something similar.

I see nobody has clicked the used to be a professional box, pity you cant click on more than one, think you’ll find there might be a few who have now got ‘real jobs’ or just got too old, but still play cos they enjoy it,

Has to be Radio 4, or if its early enough maybe Classic or Gold or whatever 1152 AM is. But quiet.

I enjoy the drive, but sleep when I get home - no chance. Have to watch TV or something to wind down even if its been a long drive.

On the way to the gig, Desmond Carrington if hes on. Does that make we wierd ? I think it reminds me of uncle Mac on the Light Program when I were a likkle lad dreaming of playing in bands.

My way would be to make an adaptor with a short 8" or so length of lead with a jaack line socket and a jack plug,

Put one resistor in the socket. one in series with the inner wire, and if you need to, one across the both terminals of the plug, a bit of ingenuity with heatshrink sleeving and your done, Use physically small resistors and it will all fit nicely,

But have a play with it first before you make a permanent job, easier to alter it that way.

Simple way to attenuate the signal would be a resistor in series with his guitar lead, might affect the sound a bit as he wont be driving the amp so hard. A bit like amps used to have years ago, 2 input sockets per channel, one attenuated and one not.

Try 68K in series, if thats not enough, maybe a 68K across the input to tha amp as well.

tbh other than that, it just looks like its just one of those things thats more trouble than its worth. Only way to keep the same sound or close to it would be a power soak type of thing..HEAFTY resistors in a potential divider setup across the output, but it would run very hot.

[quote name='MarkBassChat' timestamp='1330462939' post='1558001']
You have to find out the schematic and read it. I already mentioned that one of possibilities is to decrease R23 resistor - from 68k to e.g. 22k and use input #2. Another option would be to decrease R16 resistor from 33k to 22k.
You have to understand that it will not be the same as adding a resistor in series. With 8 Ohms cab 100% of the output voltage will be still delivered to the cab (only the power will be lower). With a resistor in series only a fraction of the output voltage will be delivered to the cab. I don't even mention that buying a resistor costs less than a new cab.

Mark
[/quote]

Sound advice - sorry, couldnt resist that.

If it was me, I'd go for less gain. Putting a resistor in series with the speaker will reduce the volume, but you'll still have the problem of control, or lack of it. Just less volume.

[quote name='flyfisher' timestamp='1330418378' post='1556956']
It may seem like a pedantic point but I wouldn't want to encourage the view that a bad earth connection - which would pass a battery/bulb test - is OK.
[/quote]

I'm not suggesting it is. But in practice it would make a quick, simple check good enough for whats needed here.
A measurement with a DMM is [b]not[/b] the correct way to check mains earthing either, as it draws so little current. Earth loop resistance checks are not for DIY, and not done with a DMM anyway,

I'm not a sparks and wouldnt try to advise the OP how to check the safety of his mains supply.

This could go on forever at this rate and isnt going to help the OP with his problem.

No
[quote name='flyfisher' timestamp='1330382199' post='1556704']
Well, I only worked in electronics for 27 years, including 10 years as chief engineer on some of the largest video switching and distribution systems in the country and [i][b]I never found any need for a bulb and a battery in my test equipment armoury.[/b][/i]

Sure, a battery and a bulb will tell you there is some sort of circuit continuity but it won't tell you the indicated resistance in the circuit, or the voltage, or the current. So I'm struggling to understand just what it would tell you, apart from the fact that there is enough, albeit, unknown voltage/current to light up a light bulb - which basically says nothing about the 'quality' of the connection. And, when it comes to eliminating noise-related problems, it's the ground connection 'quality' that is usually the key.

I'd much rather an inexperienced person gave me results from a DVM than just saying that a light bulb has lit up.
[/quote]

Nor me, but then I know what I'm looking at, the OP probably doesnt. I only said that [i][size=5]even [/size][/i]a battery and bulb would do as a sort of figure of speech, but actually, it would be sufficient to check continuity between his Bass and the mains plug. it wont be milli ohms though, the lead alone will be a couple of ohms probably. Using his DMM to measure between his radiator and his amp or his mains earth would be pointless, as he wont get a true reading on an ohms range anyway.

As engineering manager for a national security electronics company, I couldnt help but notice how engineers tend to look for complicated problems and overlook the obvious simple solution. And I think thats probably whats happened here tbh.

I know he says he's turned everything off, but I bet that doesnt include everything. Intruder alarm, etc will still be on, [size=5][i][b]Possibly [/b][/i][/size]radiating etc, same with SMPSUs for a PC monitor, Telephone, lots of things, I dont need to tell you. For all we know he might live under an electric pylon and has a Vodafone mast on his roof.

Its all guesswork till he tries the kit at a different location though isnt it ??.

[quote name='flyfisher' timestamp='1330377671' post='1556575']
Well, I agree that a battery and bulb will give an approximate indication of continuity to within a few ohms but if I was looking for ground-related faults I'd want to verify that the ground connections were good to within [u]milli[/u]-ohms. The introduction of resistance/impedance in supposedly-grounded circuits is a classic recipe for induced interference and a few ohms could make all the difference.
[/quote]

Next time you get the chance, try measuring between 2the earths of two sockets in the same buiding but some way apart with a DMM.

Then put it on a low AC volts range and measure that. usually it will read a few volts, this is normal with a high impeadence meter. It will often read some volts whether the earth cable is intact or not, and voltage between the probes will reult in an inaccurate reading.

So, you see, ohms measurements in those circumstances are not going to be true. As I said, a continuity tester, or [size=5][i]even [/i][/size]a bulb and battery [size=5][i]may be[/i][/size] more use, as they are harder to foo, and the OP is not experienced in using a DMMl.

This is based on personal experience of sorting hum and other interference problems with rs485 and CCTV in an industrial envoironment. Which I did for about 15 years.

Strange animal isnt it.

You could fit a pot in series with the hot end of the master vol, then set it and leave it, or replace it with a fixed resistor once you have it how you want it.. lose some volume, but effectively turn the master volume into a 'fine Vol' control.

Are you sure theres not a fault with the amp if theres that much gain that you cant control it ? Is he using any effects between the guitar and the amp?

OK, . a 470pf cap between the hot end and the slider, like the old Marshall SL100 mod ?

But tbh, I was thinkig more of a set it and forget it job, who needs a guitard with 200+ Watts anyway ?

R.S Components do snap in pots, but if the amp aint broke - why fix it?????

The answer is a smaller amp, or you could try reducing the output. Would a pot wired between the effects send and effects return do the trick ?

I used to turn the volume up and do it the way it was on the live Get yer Ya Yas
Out album. Couldnt get it to sound 'Big enough' any other way

Probably gone now but there was a pub in Worcester where the door to the passage into the ladies toilet was at the back of the stage area.

Was a great way to break the ice



.

[quote name='Johnston' timestamp='1330267687' post='1554858']
If it happened when playing through his phone then he wasn't connected to or earthed through the mains.
[/quote]

Mains wiring can sometimes act [u][i][b]a bit like an aerial,[/b][/i][/u] effectively [u][b][i]carrying or transmitting interferece from equipment connected to or earthed through it. [/i][/b][/u]

Ever tried using an AM radio near a TV or laptop PSU ?

Mains wiring can sometimes act a bit like an aerial, effectively carrying or transmitting interferece from equipment connected to or earthed through it.

[quote name='icastle' timestamp='1330260633' post='1554711']
Well, as the OP is getting the same problem using a mates guitar, the scope of where the potential fault resides is getting smaller now and it's going to be a really easy fix or something beyond a DIY solution...
[/quote]

As I said early on, I'd try it at a different address. Cant see it being the amp itself, , so its either dodgy earthing in the house, or coming from something else.

We dont know the whole story, He might live under a 132kV pylon, or next to a Vodafone mast, plus RFi from a cheapo switched mode PSU or mains induced buzz from dimmers could be coming from a few doors away, let alone from the floor below which is probably using the same earth..

[quote name='icastle' timestamp='1330253019' post='1554529']
Like most test equipment usage it really depends on interpretation of the results and an understanding of what you are likely to find based on experience.
[/quote]

Precisely, thats why I suggested that the OP might be better using a continuity tester or a battery and bulb rather than a DMM. a few ohms aint really gonna make much difference, so he should be looking for either a high resistance or an open circuit.

[quote name='flyfisher' timestamp='1330197345' post='1554122']
I'm not convinced that a battery and bulb would reveal anything that a DVM wouldn't.
[/quote]

If youd spent as much time as I have trying to make sense of the wierd readings you sometimes get if you try to take measurements on long, O/C or high resistance or floating cable runs, or where there are strong AC or RF fields using a DVM, then you might.

My trusty old 20,000 OPV AVO 8 with its 15V battery gives much more reliable readings under those circumstances than my Fluke, with its test voltage across the probes of less tha 0.5V, which is sometimes less than the induced voltage.

Also, using meter with a lower OPV, or a continuity tester, or [i]even[/i] a battery and bulb, will draw a little current through any poor cpnnections, and so will be much more likely to show them up. A bit like when like using the continuity tester on a DVM, if the probes are not pressed together well, you can hear the buzzer 'rattling'
,
Just speaking from personal experience mind, others might well have, and are welcome to, different ideas..

[quote name='TRBboy' timestamp='1330086599' post='1552445']
You wouldn't go and buy a brand new car from the showroom with rust, scratches and dents!
[/quote]

Actually, I might if the price was right, you should see the state of my 3 year old ex repmobile Vectra.

Wouldnt pay MORE for somebody to do it though.

I have a P bitsa that the previous owner has tried to relic the body with sandpaper etc, and it just dont look right. But I play it, not look at it so I'm not really that bothered.

Not far short of ten grand..with a fag burn on the headstock,

Much as I love Normans playing, its obviously not from a smoke free home so I think I'll have to pass.