Kiwi

7 hours ago, jrixn1 said:

Can I check what you mean when you say "FRFR"?  Because a BB2 and a clean head is full-range and flat-response.  Do you mean "a powered speaker"?  In which case yes, I do think my RCF 732A is as good as - if not better than - my BB2 setup.  They both sound really good: loud, clear, etc - all the usual properties one desires.  BB2 weighs less though, clear winner.

With my BB2, I used a Genz Benz Shuttle 9.2.  It seems pretty flat and uncoloured with the drive turned down, and EQ controls at noon.  I didn't do any scientific tests.
 

All cabs have some form of colouring.  There was a comparison of 1x12 cabs at the SE Bass Bash in 2015 and the BB2 showed some colouring in the higher frequencies, to my ears, perhaps not due to the design as much as the tweeter. But there were others that were more coloured and remained surprisingly popular amongst attendees. Some colouring can also help with monitoring in a crowded on stage mix. 

My fEARless F112 cabs are more like PA cabs but they're not as light as a BB2.  Maybe they're a little too sweet for live use. I run them each with a GB shuttle 6

50 minutes ago, ezbass said:

Great P tone. However, at the risk of being burned at the stake for heresy, is that an MSG I spy there @Kiwi?

It is!  I also spotted it last week while reviewing the video.  Very unusual to see one played live!! 

Phenomenal playing from both,  metronome precision yet they groove brutally.  No wonder Quincy used LJ in the studio so often. 

29 minutes ago, Frank Blank said:

As does Bobby Crush whose high steppin’ piaffe type dressage approach to striking the keyboard is something I’m trying to adapt into my bass technique.

 

I think you could do better...

I'm a bit late to this thread but my first reactions were astonishment at the work to the electronics and pickups.  And admiration of both how broad your skills are and the standard of quality in the outcomes.  It's a bit like watching Jaco for the first time, makes me want to hang up my router...

Two thoughts though: 

1) For neck reinforcement, it's generally best to rely on a stiff fingerboard for rigidity in the first instance and use softer wood in the neck laminations to create timbre.  I know carbon reinforcement is all the rage and there's nothing inherently wrong with it but to retain some warmth from the instrument, softer woods also play a part - something like figured maple or lightweight mahogany, as well as the denser ones like rock maple and purple heart.  The trick is getting the recipe to taste and that, arguably, can take some trial and error.

2) Filter sweeping:  I know you are going to play about with things a bit and I think your sweep range is probably where I'd aim for a first time as well.  Around 1.2Khz  is where a lot of fret noise is, although you could dampen that with part of the pickup design or put a notch filter in the preamp response.  Around 250Hz gives a nice punch for the back pickup although some find that a narrow boost around 600Hz adds more stingray-ish snarl in the string attack but it really depends on what you have to work with in terms of timbre.

1 hour ago, dmccombe7 said:

Bass is really driving those songs. Love that tone he has. Pure live energy.

Noted Steve Howe doing a bit of slide in there too. 

Is the bass player the original guy from Frankie. ?

Dave

Yes,  the only one not to appear was Holly Johnson.  They got back together for this appearance after a Bands Reunited episode.  

 And this just because they're brilliantly cool and tragically under rated by the world.  Not because of the bass playing.

I don't know what they did to the p-bass in the mix but it sounds fantastic.  Fat, compressed and growly.
 

Still living?
Ash Soane - an absolute monster groove player.  
Phil Collins - see above

Dead?
Jeff Pocaro and Prince only because they could make me a better bass player.
 

I'd love to know what they've done to the p-bass in this mix but it's lovely.  Fat, compressed and snarly.

1 hour ago, Doctor J said:

No, not the same analogy for solidbody instruments, that is the entire point.

I think there are two different contexts.  Otherwise it's comparing apples to oranges. 

10 hours ago, BigRedX said:

There's a trick that guitarists with bolt on neck instruments sometimes use and which might be applicable the basses made in the same way.

Slacken off the strings so they are not exerting any pull on the neck. Then very slightly loosen the bolts/screws attaching the neck to the body. This only needs to be the smallest amount so that the neck isn't held completely tightly in place, no more than 1 turn and probably less than that. Then tune the strings back up to pitch. This has the effect of pulling the neck as tightly into the pocket as is possible. Then tighten up the neck screws again. It probably won't make much difference to instruments where the neck is a very snug fit in the pocket, but on some it can make a noticeable change to the sound.

The neck will still sit true to wherever its bolt holes are located once the neck is tightened back up.  I usually just check how tight the neck bolts are, they can loosen up over time.  Also if the bass is a seventies three bolt with micro tilt then checking the tilt stud is worth doing,  too. 

Has Junior Bass Groovador been mentioned yet...?  

On 25/02/2021 at 20:57, TheLowDown said:

I recently read on another forum an interesting viewpoint based on one luthier's long term experience of tone-woods, and it is most likely the best interpretation of tone-woods I've heard so far.

You can read the much longer version in the link above, but to summarise:

• -the stronger/stiffer the structure of the bass, the less the choice of woods matter to the tone. In most neck-thru solid bodies, the wood has zero effect on the tone. In most bolt-on solid bodies, the wood has almost zero effect on the tone. Only the strings and pickups matter to tone.
•  
• -the more structural weaknesses in the bass - such as cavities in hollow bodies, semi hollow, and acoustic guitars, and relatively soft wood - the more the woods matter to the tone. This is where you can hear the character between different woods and which is what luthiers work with.
• -even in basses where there are structural weaknesses, you can't say that if it has X wood then it will sound any different to Y wood. It's possible to get a maple body/neck bass to sound exactly the same as what people perceive a mahogany body/neck bass to sound like, and vice versa, by shaping the weaknesses.
•  
• -for those that believe that woods matter to the tone and those that believe that woods don't matter to the tone,  you're both half correct.

Discuss.

 

Agree 100% in principle but finding people skilled enough to make a maple bass sound like a mahogany one is the stuff of legend.  Let alone specific tonal nuances of how different masses of wood might interact.

It's definitely true that the more laminations there are in the neck of a bass,  the less the wood matters.  And it's also true in my experience that the fewer wood types there are in a bass,  the more distinctive it sounds (for better or worse). 

It's all about the neck btw.  It bears the string tension and has the most impact on tone.  In a bolt on bass the body has more of an impact than the wings on a neck through, depending on construction.  Softer woods also dampen certain frequencies,  the stiffer ones preserve them depending on where in the bass they're used.  Perfectly stiff instruments will sound nearly identical regardless of what they're made from.  

Useless factoid here, but look up "Raytheon knob" on Ebay and a load of Aria-like knobs will show up.  It seems Aria may have been inspired...

8 minutes ago, Dan Dare said:

That might be the case if we bought at the factory gate, but we don't (and in most cases can't). There are shippers', wholesalers' and retailers' mark-ups to add to the equation, in addition to various taxes, import duties, etc, etc.

As far as the term "justified" goes, there is no ultimate arbiter governing the cost of instruments or anything else. Prices of just about everything are dictated by what the market will stand/is prepared to pay. If I ever sell my vintage J bass (my daughter will probably be the one to do so after I croak), I shall get as much as I can for it. That will be whatever a willing buyer is prepared to pay. If someone falls in love with it and wants to throw a ton of cash at me, I shan't turn them down. It's the way the world works.

When you sell something, are you prepared to accept a price that is "justified", or do you want to get as much as you can for it?

I think we're talking in different contexts

On 14/02/2021 at 00:55, drTStingray said:

I like Roger - as well as having developed an iconic EQ and high quality renditions of classic designs, another reason is, in the blurb which came new with my 1993 Stingray 3 band fretless is a pamphlet and one of the glowing recommendations/ reviews for Musicman basses is by none other than Roger Sadowski!! 

I actually went to visit Roger in his original workshop just off Broadway back in 1991.  His workshop was up a load floors accessed by one of those lifts with just the grate to pull across.  He was there when I walked in and I told him straight up I was just there to have a look around because there was no way I could afford to buy anything.  He was still accommodating and gracious and let me try out a few instruments.

30 minutes ago, Count Bassy said:

And the problem with that is??

Personally I would rate a CNC produced part over hand made any day. More accurate, more repeatable, and cheaper (provided the manufacturer has a CNC machine in the first place). No downside at all.

The cost of the instrument can't be justified by the time it takes to make it.  

4 hours ago, Dan Dare said:

I was wondering whether you work for one of the big instrument manufacturers there.

Absolutely not. So many Chinese factories try to build as quickly as possible with inexperienced labour.  The more successful ones develop a Linda Evangelista attitude where they won't do anything unless there's a minimum order. 

Sire pulled their factory out of China and went to Indonesia because the quality was more consistent.  High enough standards couldn't be maintained by their Chinese workforce. 

I had a three hundred quid piece of crap in the spare room wardrobe which is testament to this. 

1 hour ago, Dan Dare said:

Thou doth protest too much. If people want to buy (or buy into) something, it's their money. Their reasons for deciding how/where to spend it are theirs. It's not for anyone else to accuse them of being "gullible", etc. I note you live in China. Do you have an axe to grind here?

I build my own instruments.

How quickly you siezed on my location though. Pretty unusual.  Perhaps you are the one with an axe to grind?  

On 14/01/2020 at 00:07, StickyDBRmf said:

There's always the Roland HandSonic (I have the older HPD-15) I bought it 'cause I wanted tabla. It's good if you like to bash about on something bigger than typewriter keys. And I also trigger it via MIDI with...AN ALESIS SR-16! I haven't embarked on the computer DAW merry-go-round yet - I've got Audacity installed but haven't recorded anything. Kinda off topic but I use a ZOOM H2 as a "notebook" for ideas outa my mixer.

I'm finding that setting up my PC for composing is a ridiculous amount of faff and, by the time I've done it, I've lost the will to live let alone record any creative inspiration.  Instead, I'm probably going to get a Tascam 24 track recording desk soon for a few hundred quid, it'll allow me to record audio direct guide tracks with minimum hassle.

On 27/01/2021 at 00:25, Al Krow said:

Until then I'll be avoiding SA pedals, just my PoV...

I haven't touched my C4 in 6 months...it doesn't go far enough in terms of UI, sequencing parameters or connectivity...as you'll already be aware.

On 26/01/2021 at 23:51, Cuzzie said:

The pedal stores 6 - a manual switch is flicked to let you know which one you are on.

Which can't be operated realistically mid set on a dark stage without bending over and assuming you've remembered what patch is where.  It's not a convenient solution.

On 26/01/2021 at 23:51, Cuzzie said:

There is a massive free and open resource where you can download any sounds people have made available and they are very good from the likes of Peter on here and guys like Nathan Navarro - you can access the full capabilities with not editing prowess at all and the software tells you the parameters the 4 buttons on the pedal control.

Massive doesn't mean usable.  A lot of the patches are just people throwing stuff at walls and seeing what sticks.  And there's a lot to wade through before I find anything relevant. 

On 26/01/2021 at 23:51, Cuzzie said:

If you want to edit and existing or make your own then have a play.

I did, and subsequently got in contact with SA who gave my comments serious consideration one lunch time but there's no more room in the C4 for more code.  Perhaps my suggestions will be adopted in a new line though.

On 26/01/2021 at 23:51, Cuzzie said:

The only way to access 128 spaces is via a midi controller and then you would absolutely know which patch you have landed on.

It's not that simple, you need an interface before you can connect something like a Morningstar MC6 and that's just to achieve two foot operated patch buttons that could have been included in the first place.  That's in the order of an extra 3-400 quid of stuff before you get basic MIDI 5 pin DIN connectivity offered of pedals way below the price point of the C4.  Integrating a C4 into an existing MIDI pedalboard with 5 PIN based pedals is both expensive and far from straight forward.

On 26/01/2021 at 23:51, Cuzzie said:

Zoom is a good unit, but it’s interface is not putting others to shame, the SA C4 literally takes 2 minutes and you can change patches on the pedal pressing a couple buttons on a tablet, smart phone, PC/mac if you wish

Which means you need to take those things to a gig, potentially leave them unattended before your first song and your hands need to come away from the instrument to make patch changes...but the rest of the stuff in your board can be operated by feet...

I suspect SA prioritised form factor over connectivity in their original design and some of the features came up a bit short.  For example, no individual envelope following for each step which means two steps with the same pitch just merge into one note twice the duration.   Whereas the Adrenalinn III does have individual notes per step but doesn't have a pitch shift based arpeggiator.  Stuff like that lets the C4 down...which is a bit of a travesty given how good it does the things it does well.

7 hours ago, Sven said:

Either those or, if lacking in low mids, the good old Bartolinis.
However on a  fretless, the lack of a bridge pickup may also explain the sound missing some mwaaah

I've actually removed Barts from my Pedulla and replaced them with Alembic Activators.  Not that I'm recommending Activators, they're too expensive for what they are but they did get me more mids than the Barts and are fairly flat response.  A set of EMG's could probably achieve the same objective although the classic EMG's have this kind of sterile high end that I'm not fond of for bass.  Maybe that's changed given how many models are offered now.

32 minutes ago, Cuzzie said:

It’s akin to what I said earlier about margins 🤘🏾👍🏾

Yes but there's still the matter of perceived value.  Indonesian factories are just as capable of making a Fodera type bass, they can do it more efficiently. 

Although Fodera do the same thing as PRS and let their necks sit on a shelf for a year or so to calm down as they work on them bit by bit.  What we never find out is how much time that takes above and beyond the basic manufacture of a neck somewhere in Asia and whether the mark up reflects that extra time.  Same goes for roasted necks (although that budget brands like HB are offering them on instruments suggests that the roasting process doesn't add a significant extra cost). It seems like some of the US boutique brands are running very high overheads.  None of which can be rationalised to overseas customers beyond 'that's just how it is'.  

But THEN you have the makers who are set up for mass production jumping on the boutique band wagon, more or less saying 'oh yeah, we produce instruments that can be every bit as good as Fodera - they're hand built [from CNC rough cut parts], we use the finest [within budget and spec] woods and the best that forty year old technology can offer, we're gonna charge you twenty percent less than a Fodera!  What a bargain.'  And the more gullible players, who perhaps are inclined towards the social aspects of brand loyalty than a tool for gigging, want to buy into that.   And the mass manufacturers are laughing at what they can get away with, all the way to the bank.

5 minutes ago, Cuzzie said:

That very interesting on the margins indeed thanks for that - people have to have a model and therefore price for what works for their business.

Musicman I think were mentioned earlier, I have no doubt their prices are higher as they do not mass produce as much as other companies, they run smaller batches if I am correct

Not only that, Jason also said that in the US it costs a LOT to provide employees with things like a pension plan and healthcare that in the UK people take for granted as a right.  Alembic look after their people as well.  I don't know about the others.

27 minutes ago, Downunderwonder said:

Luxury yachts are probably the best example of the one eyed views on ''trickle down theory''.

On the one hand it's the rich pissing on the poor.

On the other hand luxury yachts employ a lot of skilled tradesmen to build and maintain them. That's a big industry here in NZ.

Do you live in Auckland perchance?

7 hours ago, binky_bass said:

This is the point I've debated with. 

There is nothing wrong with a cheap bass, but there may very well be something a little sinister about how it's made, not just the pennies on the pound some of these people get paid, but the responsibility behind sourcing the materials to make them. Cheap is often cheap because someone is getting a bad deal, and that someone is usually the person who physically made it. I would rather pay more knowing that everything is a fair deal, though I appreciate I am in a fortunate enough position to have the luxury of taking that stance. There is a question of morality between the pros of a cheap bass and the ethics behind its creation and the expense of a custom bass which supports a single craftsperson. The same arguement can be had with almost everything we consume - cheap is cheap for a reason, though buying something expensive isn't always proof of a better product. The choppy waters of ethical buying are often hard to navigate with purposefully confusing currents put in play by those who wish to steer you towards a particular purchase. 

Nothing sinister about it,  stuff just costs more in Western countries.  Tax mostly, and profit margins all add up on instruments made in the UK... or US... or Denmark etc.  There can sometimes be a lot of wastage as well.  Jason at Fodera was telling me they only make 10% margin on their instruments and they reject a lot of the wood they buy in bulk, on the grounds it's not up to par. Sometimes western made boutique instruments aren't made in the most efficient way.