Rick's Fine '52

I don’t know Lee, but happy to help, donated. Hope he manages to hang on to one!

2 hours ago, HeadlessBassist said:

I just found a very interesting supposed Pino bass for sale and did a little research. Anyone got any more info on the "Ox Bird" Bass he used with T-Bird pickups?

 

 

 

 

Well it’s clearly a cheap style copy of the one Pino played. Can’t tell much else from the pic. 

38 minutes ago, Burns-bass said:

Can you figure out what’s going on here?

 

https://www.bassdirect.co.uk/product/fender-precision-bass-1962-sherwood-green-refinish-pre-owned/

 

From my reading it’s half a neck (fingerboard replaced) and some vintage tuners and that’s it.

Just absurd pricing. Embarrassingly so. 

1 hour ago, SurroundedByManatees said:

The fact that this is still presented as a '63 Precision Bass 😂

 

1963 Fender Precision Bass – rebuild and refinished (Olympic White) https://reverb.com/item/88599010?utm_source=android-app&utm_medium=android-share&utm_campaign=listing&utm_content=88599010

 

 

Embarrassing pricing. Simple as that. Probably the best (worst) one yet.

16 hours ago, SurroundedByManatees said:

 

Its for sale at a shop.

 

its a refin btw.

You mention it being a refin, do you know what the original colour was? 
only asking because Jazz basses were almost always matching headstock for custom colours in ‘65, so if it was originally a colour, then very likely the headstock was stripped at the same time as the body, so very possible to be a new decal.

If it was originally sunburst, then very likely the decal and headstock is original.

Just a consideration. 

On 06/01/2025 at 10:26, =^..^= said:

I'm sure if some one comes up with a serious offer then I'll do that
 

I'm hesitant to remove any screws into wood or to even ask my luthier to do that - I've always wondered about how much sense that makes - in particular the neck pocket screws. The neck has been nicely settled for the last 10+ years and there are sufficient other indicators of the basses age to mean is it worth the risk to remove it ?

But I guess that is a discussion that could happen.

Wouldn’t AB have taken those pics when you got it from him? Cool bass, but as others have said, any buyer will want to see those to stay interested. 

Why do I keep coming back to this. 😍

26 minutes ago, OliverBlackman said:

Not sure why this needed a separate thread to the vintage fender one, but no it doesn’t appear that any records were kept and therefore everything is a best guess approach.

The instruments produced are the records. 

2 hours ago, rodney72a said:

@Rick's Fine '52 is correct, of course, stating that the 3-knobs started around mid-'61. I've seen quite a few examples, in person as well as on photos (some very detailed among those). In my experience, you can find both configurations for the second half of the year.

 

I've yet to see a 1962 stack-knob though, at least a well-documented one. The only one I recall was from a senior contributor on the now deceased Fender Discussion Page who said his was a 1962. Not much evidence or details given, if I remember correctly, so difficult to verify.

 

The Bass Gallery bass could really do with an in-depth description. Two of the pots are obviously replacements, along with the bridge. You'd have to see the instrument in person in order to tell whether there is any overspray - the vivid Red however is typical for a 1961 Sunburst.

Thanks, like I said, it’s not opinion, there’s plenty of examples out there. 👍
 

By the way, the pots on the ‘61 look good to me. 

1 hour ago, Reggaebass said:

As above I do sincerely hope no one has fallen out here over a difference of opinion, it’s subjects like the stack knob dating and similar that I think we (certainly me) can really learn from, @Rick's Fine '52 and @Hellzero your knowledge and experience here is greatly appreciated, as is everyone’s , I do hope you will stick around 🙂

I don’t fall out with anyone, life’s too short, but some of these points aren’t opinion. Some things are of course, but not the details referenced in the exchange. 
I will hang around, as had some very kind and interesting messages that have given me reason to stick around.

Happy Sunday everyone! ✌️ 

7 minutes ago, Beedster said:

 

Agree, but the debate does show what a bloody minefield vintage Fenders are, hope no-one's fallen out over it 👍

I agree too. It’s a great thread. However it isn’t the minefield some may think if you know what you’re looking at. Lots of simple nonsense spoken, in full view of simple, well known facts. But I’m out of this post too, I now remember why I stopped coming to this site some years back. Shame. 

Very cool!! 

I keep coming back to this, need to look for more dosh down the back of the sofa though. 

Would be interested in the head if you’d split, for the right price. Ideally want a 360, but they are hard to find! 

37 minutes ago, Hellzero said:

Maybe you should learn to read...

Are you saying this isn’t genuine? 
 

I mean it would be easy to buy a set of stacked knobs and swap them, and sell it for £10k more than this sold for if people wanted to exploit a market, but this is real, and rarer than a stack knob, but cheaper because many people paying £20k+ want a stack knob.
 

There’s literally tons of examples of 3-knob ‘61’s out there (AB has sold 2 examples in the past 3 months, both shown in this thread alone, a burst and a blonde) and no ‘62 stack knobs have ever been seen, obviously and for good reason. But hey, you’re the expert.
 

https://www.andybaxterbass.com/collections/fender-jazz-bass/products/1961-fender-jazz-bass-sunburst?

10 minutes ago, Hellzero said:

 

I'VE OWNED LOADS OF VINTAGE INSTRUMENTS AND HAVE ALWAYS TAKEN THEM APART, FURTHERMORE AS STATED EARLIER I RAN MY OWN LUTHIERY AND REPAIR SHOP OVER CLOSE TO 2 DECADES AND HAD LOADS OF VINTAGE INSTRUMENTS TO FIX OR SIMPLY SET UP, AND I ALSO WROTE A MÉMOIRE ABOUT VINTAGE INSTRUMENTS THAT HAS BEEN PUT HERE SEVERAL TIMES.

 

Maybe you should stop replying without having really read and understood what was written.

Ok, very pleased for you and your self-pronounced important history, I certainly wouldn’t buy an instrument from you though, even if you advertised it in CAPITALS!

3 minutes ago, Hellzero said:

Maybe you should learn to read...

You should look at more vintage instruments. 

2 minutes ago, Hellzero said:

I'm also compiling a list of very useful books, trying to be the mist exhaustive, to help those interested in authentication of vintage Fender's.

Based on your comments here, you should do more research on vintage Fenders before you do that. And I mean study the actual instruments. If you think 3-knob Jazz basses started in 1962, then you have much to learn. 

4 minutes ago, Hellzero said:

So according to the catalogues, the 3 knobs Jazz Bass was only available from 1962 on.

 

Of course, the instruments have been photographed earlier, so Leo Fender own statement saying that the 3 knobs version was introduced in late 1961 early 1962 is absolutely right.

 

Late meaning the last quarter of the year, anything before that can't be fully original and authentic: this is called recouping information.

 

As I wrote earlier some people are rewriting history for their own purposes.

A sales catalogue for instruments available that year would have been produced late the previous year, as with any sales brochure. 

3 minutes ago, Hellzero said:

So according to the catalogues, the 3 knobs Jazz Bass was only available from 1962 on.

 

Of course, the instruments have been photographed earlier, so Leo Fender own statement saying that the 3 knobs version was introduced in late 1961 early 1962 is absolutely right.

 

Late meaning the last quarter of the year, anything before that can't be fully original and authentic: this is called recouping information.

 

As I wrote earlier some people are rewriting history for their own purposes.

Really? OK 🤦‍♂️

46 minutes ago, Hellzero said:

And a 1962, according to the guy speaking, Fender catalogue where you see the 3 knobs Jazz Bass (go to 2:30):

 

 

 

I know the guy is turning the pages like a moron.

Yep! 

30 minutes ago, briansbrew said:

I came across this showing that the stacked knobs started in 1961

That’s ‘61, in the ‘60 catalog, it shows the same image, but with ‘New’ against it. As taken by my pics just taken, with the ‘61 alongside. Think it’s well known that stacks were for sale from mid ‘60-mid’61, when the 3-knobs were introduced. 

On 08/01/2025 at 20:30, Reggaebass said:

Wow Rick, they are amazing 

Thanks, man! 

6 hours ago, briansbrew said:

Original Fender 61 catalogue

 

 

 

Is there a relevant comment missing from this? 

On 16/01/2025 at 22:50, GuyR said:

I don’t assume the expertise of anyone making definitive statements about vintage Fenders. I’m simply interested to know the source of your information, being keen to improve my level of knowledge if you have access to information I don’t. 
I have all the usual written material so yes, please do share a list, that would be much appreciated.

I’m certainly not after an adversarial exchange, quite the reverse, I’m always keen to know more and I don’t consider myself more knowledgeable than anyone else here. 

 

The Blasquiz book has a perfunctory half page entry about the first version Jazz Bass where the opening statement is that the first version was introduced in December 1960, when there are neck dates as early as July 1960. He may have met Leo Fender, but his opening statement is wrong. There are multiple examples of pre-December 1960 Jazzes. We are all open to making an error.

Re the late 1961 VVT examples, assuming the changeover of concentric-VVT wasn’t the last day of 1961, I don’t recall having seen a 1962 concentric pot model and all the 1961 VVT examples seem to have 1961 dated pots and late 1961 body/neck dates.

Do you think the Andy Baxter examples are modified? Seems a lot of trouble to go to in order to reduce the value of your bass. 

 

I’d genuinely be very keen for you to share your insight into evidence of modification to the Andy Baxter 61 VVT examples

 

Like everyone lease, I’m keen to be better informed.

 

Just based on my experience and knowledge, I’ve never seen, or known any credible collector or dealer that has seen a genuine, unmodified stack knob from even close to 1962. 
Pretty common info that the 3-knob started mid-61. I’ve owned one dated 9/61, a sunburst that Andy Baxter sold for me a couple of months ago, I’ve  seen another as early as 6/61, and many more in between. 
I think the confusion wasn’t helped by the early stack knob Custom Shop reissues being called ‘62 Jazz bass.