Bilbo

Whatever your thoughts about Prog Rock and Yes lyrics (!), Squire was (and remains) an original voice on his instrument. He influenced a generation of bass players including Geddy Lee of Rush and has produced some pretty incredible stuff in the Yes discography. And all with a pick! Being compared to him should very much be considered a compliment.

[quote name='noelk27' post='290852' date='Sep 24 2008, 02:02 PM']The ambition of any songwriter has to be the creation of a homogeneous entity and not a collection of individualist parts.[/quote] Absolutely - a great bass line on a bad piece of music is like polish on a turd. Its nice and shiny now but, when it comes down to it, its still a turd!

[quote name='Bass_In_Yer_Face' post='290782' date='Sep 24 2008, 12:37 PM']I don't get The Beatles either....I think The Stones & The Who were better[/quote] Now the Stones - bad bass lines AND bad songs. Hell of an achievement.

My point was simply that liking a song was not the same as valuing its effect on the masses. I like loads of things that would clear a dance floor in seconds. My original post was about not liking songs with great bass lines not about not liking songs that are dancefloor fillers. So if the poster in question says he likes a poor song because of the effect of that song on his audience, it doesn't mean he likes the song on its own merits. Maybe I should have just said that!

[quote name='tonybassplayer' post='290675' date='Sep 24 2008, 11:08 AM']When I see a full dance floor loving what we are playing ie mama mia, disco inferno, I want You Back etc then I start to love the song !![/quote] Then what you are enjoying is not the song but the effect the song has on your audience. Perfectly understandable but, remember, if you play for applause, that is all you will ever get .

I remember in the late 80s/early 90s getting hold of the famous 'In The Shadow of Motown' book/cd set and spending a few weeks or months looking at what were generally some very sophisticated and demanding bass-lines (and great reading practice, if nothing else). Some of these lines were fantastic (the line to the bridge on the Diana Ross live version of 'Ain't No Mountain High Enough' springs to mind as an absolute diamond). After a while, however, and after visiting the original recordings of the tunes involved, I clocked the fact that, despite these wonderfully complex and intelligent lines, I didn't actually LIKE most of the songs - a lot of it is bubblegum and some of it just plain bad! I have since tried (with varying degrees of success) to listen to all music wholistically and not just from a bassophile point of view. As a result, massive amounts of music that other bass players find exciting bores my rigid - great bass playing, lousy music. So, my question is, what are the tunes where the basslines make you think 'wow' but you never listen to them because the tunes are s***e? Some of mine..... 'Le Freak' by Chic - great line, naff song. 'Car Wash' by Rose Royce - we all like that fill but....yeeeeeeeeeeuch! Almost anything by Tower of Power! Loads of Jeff Berlin tunes, especially that awful train effect on 'Runaway Train' on 'In Harmony's Way' - criiiinge!! All of Steve Bailey's 'Dochontomy' cd. Stu Hamm's 'Radio Free Albymuth' Wooten's 'Amazing Grace' The list goes on and on and on.....

Try the Simandl book or Rufus Reid's 'The Evolving Bassist' - each represents a systematic approach to playing (they both work just as well for double bass and electric - its the notes that matter, not the power supply)

Four decades to find jazz? You can't have been looking very hard

As an electric jazzer, I find I, like you, favour the neck end of things to the bridge area. If you actually look at a double bass player, s/he is generally playing in a similar position relative to the bridge/neck. That is why the sound is deeper and more rounded. When I solo, I find I move slightly towards the bridge so itcuts through a little more but rarely do I play right up at that bridge end.

I'm with The Funk on this one. The book has everything in it and you can take it one bite at a time. The AB Guides are no easier in my view and they aren't as comprehensive in the longer term.

That's cos he's never met the magic drum pixie....

[quote name='deadraven' post='287318' date='Sep 19 2008, 02:24 PM']you cant really 'teach' timing and rhythm[/quote] Of course you can.

[quote name='deadraven' post='287311' date='Sep 19 2008, 02:18 PM']Like most people are saying, there are mainly two types, one who is theory based, and the other who will explore.[/quote] That's exactly the opposite of what I just said [quote name='deadraven' post='287311' date='Sep 19 2008, 02:18 PM']The experiences I've had with people who learnt all the theory first from picking up their instruments for the first time generally thought everything had to be played 'a specific way' and always in a certain scale.[/quote] The bad application of knowledge should never be laid at the door of the knowledge itself but at the owner of that knowledge. A example of a musician who applies theory badly should not be used to negate the value of that knowledge. [quote name='deadraven' post='287311' date='Sep 19 2008, 02:18 PM']I think when you feel you've gone stale in your playing or hit a brick wall, then perhaps you should further yourself by learning techniques you may not know. But untill that time, as long as your having fun playing your instrument and generally going well with the music, nothing else matters!!![/quote] Whilst this is not wholly defensilbe, I would argue that, if you study the whole language of music in all its myriad glories, you would never get stale. I am more excited by music now that I was when I started playing in 1980! Stale is what you get if you don't look outwards and see what the rest of the world is doing - stagnant water is only stagnant because it is not regularly refreshed. And as for fun; there is a concept called deferred gratification. Not everything that is of value can be gleaned out of what is superficially 'fun'. The best things in life, the things that really matter, are often hard won.

After hating them for years, I am now going through two modified GK 150MBXs - they sound great for small jazz gigs and I have no problems lifting them (as I did with me Eden Metro). On the size/sound compromise, they work for me.

Agreed - I tried upright for 2 years (1998?) and damaged my hand. I still get pains today but, fortunately, it doesn't effect my electric playing. I cannot, however, take up the upright as a result and, consequently, lose gigs I may otherwise have got (i.e. everyone books the local upright jazzer first and I only get the gigs he can't do). Get it looked at asap and stop trying to play with the injury. It will only get worse.

PS - if I recall correctly, the main riff in 'Sir Duke' is essentially a pentatonic scale. I would add that the day that I read that riff on a big band chart was a red letter day for me as a developing player. It was then that I knew that my reading practice was, at last, bearing fruit.

THere seems to be an assumption here that anyone who knows theory uses it to solve problems and anyone that doesn't just experiments and explores until they find something they like. You can do both, you know As for theory making you a better person; maybe. Not as simple cause and effect but in the sense that any form of disciplined application of self teaches you humility, the value of knowledge, the depth of achievement of others and the huge breadth of wonderful things that are available to the developing artist then, yes, I would consider that to be progress. I have, for instance, studied a couple of Stravinsky scores and only in doing so have I come to realise the achievements of the man (who, incidently, was, on occasion, a bit of a to**er). I will never be able to achieve such things but in studying them I have come to share, in some small way, in their achievements. I consider myself to be a better person for it. That is not to say I consider myself to be better than anyone who hasn't studied, just better than I was before I did so. I place considerable value on it as a consequence.

Mark Levine's 'The Jazz Theory Book'. It's all in there. [url="http://www.amazon.co.uk/Jazz-Theory-Book-Mark-Levine/dp/1883217040/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1221810441&sr=1-1"]http://www.amazon.co.uk/Jazz-Theory-Book-M...0441&sr=1-1[/url] Or Peter Ilyitch Tchaikovsky's 'Guide To The Study of Practical Harmony' £2,25 on AMazon marketplace. [url="http://www.amazon.co.uk/Guide-Practical-Study-Harmony-Dover/dp/0486442721/ref=sr_1_36?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1221810367&sr=1-36"]http://www.amazon.co.uk/Guide-Practical-St...367&sr=1-36[/url] Willis' books are too bass specific for my liking although they are ok but the above focus on the notes and not the instruments, for me a better way of studying harmony.

I've always used my own gear - no DI's available (small 600 seater theatres). Don't forget spare everythings!!

I agree with mcgraham. The noodle until you hit something good smacks of giving an infinte number of monkeys an infinte number of typewriters and hoping for the best. It also limits your choices to the individuals usually narrow view of the options. The thing is to remember that the ultimate test for the usefulness of a theoretical concept in the context of a piece of music is, and always will be, the composer's ears - if it sounds good it is good and if it sounds bad, it is bad. But the theory allows you to go directly to the problem. A good example is when Sting was working with noted arranger Gil Evans (Nothing But The Sun). Sting was struggling with a composition and asked Evans for some help. 'This note is wrong but whatever I do I can't get it to sound wrong' says Sting. 'It's not that note that's wrong' replies Evans, 'it's the one before it'. Job done. That kind of wisdom comes with knowledge and study and not from the magic music pixie (who I am beginning to like in spite of myself)

Sueno Vivo by Renaud Garcia-Fons

I recommend learning piano yourself, if you can find the time. Not virtuoso stuff, just arrangers piano. Opens up a whole new world and makes you listen differently!

The G alt is the seventh chord of the Ab melodic minor scale so it would sound good. Its the source of a zillion bits of good jazz.