Bilbo

Lead line for head only (no chords)

I agree that Miller does that but would also argue that his general concept is a little more wholistic than most so this is not surprising. My one criticism of Miller is that his 'thing' just leaves me cold. I like his funk grooves etc but, fundamentally, I have not heard anything by him that moves me. Same with Jeff Berlin's solo stuff, Victor Wooten etc. Great spectacle but no emotion.

[quote name='bassace' post='887452' date='Jul 6 2010, 04:00 PM']Also, you'll get one for less than £5k from Contrabass Shoppe, or have I misunderstood your post?[/quote] I am no expert on pricing basses but, on every other accessory I have looked at (bows, cases, rosin, books etc), The Contrabasse Shoppe is not very competitive. Without making accusations towards anyone in particular, to be blunt, I am beginning to think there is almost a cartel going on in the UK, pushing prices up. I look at European prices compared to UK prices and find myself thinking 'why can't anyone get these basses in stock for these prices over here'. Or is it just UK import duties pushing the prices up? Can anyone explain?

On the available specifications, I would go for [url="http://www.thomann.de/gb/christopher_db_303_kontrabass_34.htm"]http://www.thomann.de/gb/christopher_db_30...ntrabass_34.htm[/url] Also, have you seen this (I did, after I had ordered mine )? [url="http://www.musicalinstrumentsales.co.uk/photoad.php?adId=11208"]http://www.musicalinstrumentsales.co.uk/ph....php?adId=11208[/url]

I have come to believe that the issue of 'solo' bass and the tensions that exist between the role of the bass as a foundation instrument and as a solo voice are best viewed from an aesthetic perspective. The choices a composer or arranger makes in preparing a composition for performance are many and complex. Which instrument takes the main theme/melody, what instruments are used in the ensemble, what harmony instrument is used, what voicings, do you harmonised with this horn or that one, is the guitar acoustic or electric, is there a drummer or percussionist, neither or both. There are thousands of choices that take place in deciding how best to present the work in question. In light of this, I have found that many of the bass-led ensembles lack any sense of responsibility where these choices are concerned. The bass player features him/herself as the main melodic voice because s/he can, not because the piece calls for that sound/texture. The choices are arguably egocentric and are about the 'showcasing' of the persons skills rather than in presenting the music being performed. The choices made by improvising players whilst performing can be equally irresponsible (Feraud appears to be one of the culprits). I find that the 'best' bass players are the ones who do what is right for the composition not the ones who rip the place apart with their chops. The more interesting players, to me, are the ones who do great things in the context of a performance. Listen to Jimmy Johnson, Anthony Jackson, Alphonso Johnson, Paul Chambers on the great Miles Davis/Gil Evans collaborations etc. The players are great [i]in the context of the performances [/i]and not as featured instrumentalists. IME, very few bass solos succeed in the overall arc of a composition/performance. Its seldom the chops leave a lasting impression but the melodies, harmonies and compositional flow. Lots of bass orientated recordings feature the instrument at a cost to the works being performed and lose their appeal quite quickly. IME, no musician ever did his best work at a bass clinic/music fair.

I know what the terms mean but have never heard them used in the UK jazz community. A cat is a musician. Shedding is practising (i.e. spending time 'in the woodshed' (locked away from distractions) developing your musical skills). So a cat who sheds is a musician who practises. It tends to refer to people who are working on addressing a specific technical deficiency or revealed shortcoming (cats who saw a great player like Bird or Trane or who got burned at a jam session would refer to going back into the shed so they could re-emerge as a more competitive player). I think it was mostly a product of its era (50s/60s) and is probably still lingering around in certain areas of the US. But, no, its not really travelled to Europe that much.

Every decade, whether I need to or not...... Hate new strings. All clanky.

Just listening to 'Miles Ahead', the first Gil Evans/Miles Davis collaboration. Great, great stuff.

All good advice. My only beef with all of this info on Latin bass playing is that there doesn't seem to be much of a market for the equivalent 'Latin Drumming'. I got the Goines/Ammen book a decade ago but have rarely come across a drummer who was able to go there with me!!

[quote name='bob_pickard' post='886234' date='Jul 5 2010, 12:54 PM']Well Done Bilbo! I'll be joining you in a few weeks - Gedo's stuff looks great but what made you choose them over Thomann etc etc?[/quote] The fully carved bit was part of it (Thomann's 5 strings are laminate if I recall correctly), as was the fact that they are Czech not Chinese. 27frets was also very positive about his Gedo bass and we discussed it at length. Add a two year guarantee that would not be available with a private sale and I was sold. My personal view, and it is no more than that, was that I could agonise over getting the perfect bass and tie myself on knots seeking the holy grail of basses or I could get a sense of what I want and then go for it. I believe that I learn to play the basses and guitars I buy rather than expecting them to 'fit me'. Endless tweaking of action and string size etc have always struck me as of limited value. I spend time with my instruments in order to make the minute adjustments I need to make making music possible. Its not an easy task and I don't think it will be significantly easier if I get this instrument over that one. Two basses and 5 guitars later, I have never been disappointed. The basses that have come and gone have done so primarily because they are fretted.

[quote name='thisnameistaken' post='885802' date='Jul 4 2010, 08:59 PM']I'm sold, I just hope my recent left wrist scratchy feeling isn't going to turn into anything serious, I'm going to call the GP about it tomorrow. [/quote] Have you had a lesson? I had really bad problems in teh past but one lesson with Jakesbass and I have had no trouble since. Worth it as a preventative measure?

[quote name='thisnameistaken' post='885824' date='Jul 4 2010, 09:16 PM']I would be very nervous of using a high C string, I'd assume it would be so weedy it would need a very confident player to make the most of it.[/quote] Interestingly, and this was one of the things Bernie mentioned when we discussed the option, the notes on the high C ring truer than the same notes higher up on the G string, much the same as when you play notes on the G string that also appear higher up the D. It doesn't sound thin at all. Will be even better with the Evah's (had to source a Evah High C from the US, though (Quinn Violins)!!)

After nearly seven months of research (soome of you here have contributed to this), I finally got myself my very own double bass. I listened to the arguments from everyone about trying thousands of instruments, preferably old ones, and all of the horror stories about the various pitfalls everyone has heard about. I also listened to the 'just do it' brigade, spoke to luthiers, dealers, players etc and looked all over the net for advice and guidance. And then I made my decision. I bought one from Gedo Musik in Germany. Get this: its a five string (high C). I looked at several others and was attracted to the idea of a 5 string and, luckily enough, the no.1 call guy for jazz in the area where I live is a 5 string player (Bernie Hodgkins) so we talked and he convinced my that my reservations were unwarranted and so I just went for it. It cost 1,700 euros (£1350 +p+p) and it all came in at £1,458 (inc. bow and case). Here is a link to the bass at the on-line store. [url="http://www.gedo-musik.de/shop/product.php?id_product=177"]http://www.gedo-musik.de/shop/product.php?id_product=177[/url] Only concern is the usual strings issue and I have some Evah Pirazzi's on order but I gigged with the bass today (two sets in a piano/sax/bass trio) and it sounded great (my playing was a bit clumpy but I had only 30 minutes practice on the instrument before I got to gig it so I can't complain). Couple of dodgy moments with the high C but nothing grave. Ok, its not an Italian bass but the instrument is a Czech made, fully carved bit of kit with ebony fingerboard (the neck is two octaves and a whole tone long (equivalent of 26 frets). That means my range is from low E to D a whole tone short of 4 octaves higher . Gets me well into the cellos range so I am going to spend some time working on the arco stuff - I have a French and German bow available to me so will spend some time with each to ascertain which type works for me (I have at last found an arco teacher locally - cellist by trade but also plays DB). The build quality is very good and I am happy with the purchase - its not a dream bass by any standards but, for a beginner like me, I could ask for no more on my available budget. I will get some photos up as soon as I can.

I agree completely. Now I am a double bass player, everything else seems shallow. I can get more notes out of the electric but the presence of the double bass is so much greater, it is profoundlyu engaging for me as a player. I am crap at it at the moment and can barely string a phrase together but it feels like a rebirth. Marvellous.

Got about 5 things on the go at the moment. Jeff Berlin's 'Joe Frazier' (main theme only - can't be bothered with the rest) and 'Palewell Park', Dave Holland's part on Kenny Wheeler's 'Music for Large Ensemble' and a couple of other odds and sods.

Kudos to you (and others), Peter. I got a chance to check the recordings (why am I unable to take other people's word for it? ) and have to agree that it is a D not an E. I suspect the 'that's how it was in the fake books' explanation is the most likely. The good thing is that I can now play it on the double bass much more easily than I could an octave down! Now can someone convince me that All Blues is in A :lo:?

Same happened to me years ago. Did a session for a producer in Risca (S. Wales), playing bass on a very raw track (just drums and keys) and then went away. Couple of years later, I was played a track by a [i]different[/i] producer and asked what I thought of the bass player. 'solid enough but nothing remarkable'. He laughed. Of course, it was me. The producer had addded layers of stuff and I just hadn't recognised any elements of the original track.

John Taylor's 'Angel of the Presence

That's the wonder of it. You never stop learning. The further you get in understanding the stuff, the further away the horizon gets. The secret is not to try to learn it all but to learn what you need to be you.

I have an article in an old Double Bassist magazine that suggests that the mic should be about five feet above the ground about five feet in front of the bass, pointing downwards at the bass (the instrument is meant to project so the best sound is not at the bass itself - remember bass frequencies have a long wave cycle so too near and you will lose a lot). Trouble with this is you will have a lot of potential difficulties with ambient noise if others are playing too. My own recordings are done with a Rode NT1-A about 12" in front of the bridge - the sound is warm and full - but that will obviously depend on your bass. The 'mic in a towel wedged in the bridge' idea zero9 suggests was used by Rudy Gelder in experiments with Paul Chambers on all those 50s Blue Note recordings so it may be worth a try. IME, its all about experimenting as the different mics/basses/techniques will impact on the sound captured.

The biggest problem with playing bebop is not in playing that fast but in THINKING that fast. It takes practice, nothing more and nothing less

These shred fests just don't do anything for me any more (I used to buy it wholesale). I can appreciate the technical skills in evidence but, as they often say of acting, if you can see it, it isn't very good! Watch Joan Hickson as Miss Marple. No acting in evidence: she IS Marple. Find me a bass player that plays like these two but who doesn't draw attention to him/herself and you will have found a diamond.

I have to defer to your obvious knowledge but, by my reckoning, if the first note is D, the tune is in Cm, not Dm. I'm off to check!!

Derren - sorry if my humour was thought to be undermining. It is a long standing tradition here that, if anyone mentions Moondance, I have to intervene disparagingly - its my job Whilst I can see the arguments for the 'crossover' appeal of Moondance, like Fever, Watermelon Man, Mercy, Mercy, Mercy and several other 'evergreens that aren't', it gets requested almost every time you play a gig. These tunes are almost universally crucified at gigs and their shortcomings as compositions quickly become apparent - they are heard often because they are easy to replicate, not because they are any good. As a staunch advocate for the beautiful music that is jazz, I believe it is the responsible thing to do to draw attention to the fact that stuff like Moondance is pseudo jazz and only that. I will not advocate for mediocrity in place of quality. Moondance is objectively (and subjectvley) poorly written, poorly played and a pale imitation of all that is good about jazz. If people like it, so be it, but people like X Factor, Eastenders and daytime TV - doesn't make it any good. Its appeal is based on ignorance and ignorance should be challenged - not because we are snobs but because our 30 years of experience give us a greater pool of knowledge on which to draw. If that makes me a snob, then every teacher in the world who seeks to enlighten their students is a snob. Our approach is mischievious but the message is the same. This is low grade stuff - there are richer pickings out there.

[quote name='Major-Minor' post='879921' date='Jun 28 2010, 02:47 PM']This is gonna sound very pedantic ! BUT This hand written copy has several mistakes (assuming you want to get somewhere close to the original). Apart from the fact it should be written, as Jennifer has pointed out, an octave higher for a bass player to read (ie sounding an octave lower), the very first note (and of each repeat of this phrase) should be a D. And when it modulates to Eb minor, again the first note of the phrase is Eb (not F). Of course there is nothing wrong with varying your own version away from the original (I do it all the time on this tune), but I think it helps to get it right to start with. The Major[/quote] This is written an octave higher than it is played by most of us, Pete. I have always played it exactly as it is written here and the first note of the riff played this way is the lowest E on the bass. The main riff ends on the D that is the key centre of the first 16 bars (E A B C D E C D - 'soooo what'). I have a video of PC playing this - I will check it out when I get a chance but I recall he does play it higher up the neck that I do (I guess he wins that argument). I also agree that the first note of the riff in the middle 8 in Eb is F not Eb. I guess I could be wrong but, if I am, its a 28 year mistake that has never been corrected by anyone! NB - the recording of the original So What was recorded on two tape recorders simultaneously. One of them was set incorrectly. Noone noticed and the 'wrong' version went out on the original release of the recording sounding out of tune (a quarter tone too sharp).